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Just what is NVIDIA up to?

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humbug said:
The 4080 is probably the worst offender among these 40 series cards, HUB gave it a glowing review, i don't so much have a problem with that it is a good GPU, but not that good, they utterly failed to call Nvidia out on the insane pricing, basically they avoided any criticism laid at Nvidia at all.

When it came to the 7900XT the tone was very different, they gave no credence to the GPU as a product, like they did the 4080, instead all they did was slam it for being overpriced, which it was but not like the 4080 was which they didn't slam for its price at all, and then said you should actually buy the 4080 instead before rounding the review out by saying its all so bad they told AIB's not to bother sending them any samples as they would not be reviewing them at all.

To me that was clearly pandering to an Nvidia review guide.
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I wouldn't say it was a glowing review, performance +48% over a 3080 was good but price was poor, also don't forget that AMD hadn't released any cards by that point so there was no alternative or price comparisons other than the 4090.

The 7900XT got panned because despite it being the 2nd tier card it had worse price to performance than the flagship 7900XTX and being just $100 cheaper it made no sense to buy this over a 7900XTX at the time.
 
kieran_read said:
Jesus

So the cost difference between 4060ti 8gb and 4060ti 16gb is unser 4$ but costs $100 more
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That is the price per 1x GB but its also the spot price for a single amount, companies like Nvidia would be ordering a huge amount of VRAM in bulk so I could imagine they'll be getting substantially cheap than what you can purchase it for with a one off order for a couple of chips.
 
humbug said:
I don't nessesarily disagree with any of that, but tell me, do you think prices should remain the same forever or do you think its reasonable for Nvidia / AMD to price up with inflation?
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Even at $400 for a 4070 that would have technically been a $70 price rise over the previous gen as the card shares the same spec as a 3060 12gb, how a 4070ti can cost anywhere near $800 which is almost a $500 increase is beyond me when that card also shares the same spec as a 3060 12gb, sure the N4 chip costs more and it has better power delivery but then as I said VRAM costs today compared to a couple of years ago would offset most of that.
 
@Joxeon you keep repeating the same ridiculous arguments about the 4070 being too expensive at $400 over and over again, i can't take you seriously, you're trolling these threads and i'm very close to adding you to my ignore list as a way to clean up these threads in my browser.
 
humbug said:
I don't nessesarily disagree with any of that, but tell me, do you think prices should remain the same forever or do you think its reasonable for Nvidia / AMD to price up with inflation?
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While they can price things as they see fit. However if they want people to actually buy...
... They have to offer something worth buying.

After pumping money out like no tomorrow since at least 911 (so close to 22 year), inflation has finally gone crazy now

Now they may say that is precisely why they want to increase prices, however a things to consider:
  1. GPUs are discretionary items. When the cost of living goes up, less people are going to be prepared to spend big on GPUs.
  2. Cheap credit is gone
  3. GPU inflation since 2001 has often been way above general inflation.
    1. While this started with halo "I am worth it" Titan cards, this is especially the case now at the lower and middle of the market.
  4. The total addressable market was or could be quite large nowadays as many more people worldwide have income where they could afford tech (although most of that is laptops, consoles and phones).
  5. The GPU manufacturer's costs truly have gone up, but not as much as they make out.
  6. A lot of the increased costs is fixed, so going for low volume, high margins makes even less sense.
Reasonable?

Maybe but short-termism is going to kill the gaming golden goose.

Neither Nvidia or AMD may care, but there are things to consider:
  1. While I expect Nvidia's AI hype to continue for some years still as few other companies can stand them and as GPUs aren't really the best for AI work and barriers to entry (aka the patent wall) isn't that large for both AI uses.
    1. so most big players will make their own. Google Tensor, Tesla Dojo were simply the first, but almost everyone else doing their own. Partially because working with Nvidia is no fun, and costly, but also because custom chips are going to be much cheaper.
  2. AMD only really have the console market and of course dGPUs compete with CPU and especially server GPUs.
I really think one of the two will come back crawling for gamer sales but if in the meantime they have killed the market?
 
JediFragger said:
I'd like to see this comparison done on more recent drivers tbh, XTX/XT have both had a nice bump lately. Hopefully we'll get that with the new releases soon.
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Like I said in my post HUB just did a driver update video for the 7900xt and the 7900xt is now 1% faster than it was at launch

1% is a free bump but nothing to write home about. Most of the 1% also comes from just a couple games that received huge boosts because the driver fixed an issue where rx7000 cards were running games slower than rx6000. So in reality fine wine has not yet arrived
 
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KompuKare said:
While they can price things as they see fit. However if they want people to actually buy...
... They have to offer something worth buying.

After pumping money out like no tomorrow since at least 911 (so close to 22 year), inflation has finally gone crazy now

Now they may say that is precisely why they want to increase prices, however a things to consider:
  1. GPUs are discretionary items. When the cost of living goes up, less people are going to be prepared to spend big on GPUs.
  2. Cheap credit is gone
  3. GPU inflation since 2001 has often been way above general inflation.
    1. While this started with halo "I am worth it" Titan cards, this is especially the case now at the lower and middle of the market.
  4. The total addressable market was or could be quite large nowadays as many more people worldwide have income where they could afford tech (although most of that is laptops, consoles and phones).
  5. The GPU manufacturer's costs truly have gone up, but not as much as they make out.
  6. A lot of the increased costs is fixed, so going for low volume, high margins makes even less sense.
Reasonable?

Maybe but short-termism is going to kill the gaming golden goose.

Neither Nvidia or AMD may care, but there are things to consider:
  1. While I expect Nvidia's AI hype to continue for some years still as few other companies can stand them and as GPUs aren't really the best for AI work and barriers to entry (aka the patent wall) isn't that large for both AI uses.
    1. so most big players will make their own. Google Tensor, Tesla Dojo were simply the first, but almost everyone else doing their own. Partially because working with Nvidia is no fun, and costly, but also because custom chips are going to be much cheaper.
  2. AMD only really have the console market and of course dGPUs compete with CPU and especially server GPUs.
I really think one of the two will come back crawling for gamer sales but if in the meantime they have killed the market?
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Its really odd because the 4060 class is Nvidia best selling range and they just aren't worth buying, even for someone like me itching for an upgrade to a 2070S, the 4060Ti is slower than the 3070 and that's only 30% faster than the card i have.

Its ###### insane, what are they thinking?
 
Joxeon said:
Even at $400 for a 4070 that would have technically been a $70 price rise over the previous gen as the card shares the same spec as a 3060 12gb, how a 4070ti can cost anywhere near $800 which is almost a $500 increase is beyond me when that card also shares the same spec as a 3060 12gb, sure the N4 chip costs more and it has better power delivery but then as I said VRAM costs today compared to a couple of years ago would offset most of that.
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give-it-a-rest-saturday-night-live.gif
 
Grim5 said:
Like I said in my post HUB just did a driver update video for the 7900xt and the 7900xt is now 1% faster than it was at launch

1% is a free bump but nothing to write home about. Most of the 1% also comes from just a couple games that received huge boosts because the driver fixed an issue where rx7000 cards were running games slower than rx6000. So in reality fine wine has not yet arrived
Click to expand...

I think the other point you are missing though which gave some excuse for them to make the video (yes seems a bit pointless) is the card is now ~£150 cheaper. So where they bang on about the $ per frame metric it comes in to play. Kind of picks up on what I think @humbug is trying to say in so far as the card is ok the more it creeps lower in price - whereas the nvidia cards tend to stay the same price so the delta does change.
 
gpuerrilla said:
I think the other point you are missing though which gave some excuse for them to make the video (yes seems a bit pointless) is the card is now ~£150 cheaper. So where they bang on about the $ per frame metric it comes in to play. Kind of picks up on what I think @humbug is trying to say in so far as the card is ok the more it creeps lower in price - whereas the nvidia cards tend to stay the same price so the delta does change.
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This.
 
humbug said:
Its really odd because the 4060 class is Nvidia best selling range and they just aren't worth buying, even for someone like me itching for an upgrade to a 2070S, the 4060Ti is slower than the 3070 and that's only 30% faster than the card i have.

Its ###### insane, what are they thinking?
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Well someone must be buying them as the 4060ti had a 0.23 increase on the steam survey for July, interesting that you mention the 3070 as that also had a 0.27 giving it top spot for gains so it looks like Jensen plan of releasing new hardware which is worse than the older stuff is working a treat and those 3070s are being bought up.
 
humbug said:
@Joxeon you keep repeating the same ridiculous arguments about the 4070 being too expensive at $400 over and over again, i can't take you seriously, you're trolling these threads and i'm very close to adding you to my ignore list as a way to clean up these threads in my browser.
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Nowhere in my post did I say that a 4070 was too expensive at $400 in fact I think it would be a great card for $400 so please stop trying to strawman.
Joxeon said:
Even at $400 for a 4070 that would have technically been a $70 price rise over the previous gen as the card shares the same spec as a 3060 12gb, how a 4070ti can cost anywhere near $800 which is almost a $500 increase is beyond me when that card also shares the same spec as a 3060 12gb, sure the N4 chip costs more and it has better power delivery but then as I said VRAM costs today compared to a couple of years ago would offset most of that.
Click to expand...
 
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