You don’t think people who have decades of experience in an industry might have a better idea of the complexities of automating that industry. In particular, I suspect I have a far better understanding of the weight of regulation and certification standards, than either you or the author of that Forbes article. As a point of fact, broadly speaking reaper drones cannot fly in civilian airspace and as far as I‘m aware that’s not going to change soon.They already exist, reaper drones are basically just smaller planes.
Its an odd human behaviour I see a lot, people who work in an industry seem to think automating it is difficult and won't happen. They are often the most blind to reality.
Good grief - a remote controlled Cessna. Do you have any idea of the difference between a light aircraft flying a short hop between A and B and a large civilian transport aircraft flying across international airspace?….the Cessna is operated from the ground, with one human controller watching a moving map on a screen and interfacing with air traffic control."
Unsurprisingly its almost there, https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzann...2/26/pilotless-autonomous-self-flying-planes/
Good grief - a remote controlled Cessna. Do you have any idea of the difference between a light aircraft flying a short hop between A and B and a large civilian transport aircraft flying across international airspace?
better understanding of the weight of regulation and certification standards, than either you or the author of that Forbes article. As a point of fact, broadly speaking reaper drones cannot fly in civilian airspace and as far as I‘m aware that’s not going to change soon.
You don’t think people who have decades of experience in an industry might have a better idea of the complexities of automating that industry. In particular, I suspect I have a far better understanding of the weight of regulation and certification standards, than either you or the author of that Forbes article. As a point of fact, broadly speaking reaper drones cannot fly in civilian airspace and as far as I‘m aware that’s not going to change soon.
To give you an idea about the time involved in aircraft certification, it took Boeing 2 years to do what was essentially small software update to the MCAS system on the Max. How long do you suppose it’s going to take to update and certify an airframe to complete automation. I’ll tell you - decades. It will take a generation for people to be convinced pilotless aircraft are safe.
Good grief - a remote controlled Cessna. Do you have any idea of the difference between a light aircraft flying a short hop between A and B and a large civilian transport aircraft flying across international airspace?
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and all that…..
To quote the CEO of Boeing:
’Boeing CEO Dave Calhoun revealed an open secret in the world of aviation. “I think the future of autonomy is real for civil,” he told Bloomberg TV, before quickly offering some qualifiers. “It’s going to take time…..’
For time, read decades.
Regulation and certification do matter if you want to have a reasonable chance of success. It’s literally the reason certification standards exist.This is where you are over-thinking it though - for a mission like this regulations and certifications don't matter, airspace regulations don't matter as long as they can get the plane close enough before discrepancies are noted. Compliance with most regulations, etc. go out the window and they don't need to do anything more complex than maintain a basic flightpath which an autopilot can do, maybe make some slight adjustments if necessary which is perfectly possible to remote without complicated systems and respond to air traffic control which can be relayed.
Regulation and certification do matter if you want to have a reasonable chance of success. It’s literally the reason certification standards exist.
Regulation and certification do matter if you want to have a reasonable chance of success. It’s literally the reason certification standards exist.
I said theoretically possible and technically achievable are two different things but never mind….You said the tech didn't exist, it does.
There is going to be a big difference between cargo (what the original discussion was about) and civil in regards carrying passengers.
Public will be the decider rather than tech IMO, although you can guarantee the likes of Ryanair will jump on anything thats cheaper for sure.
Precisely which bit of the long distance do you see being an issue, contacting ATC or what?
As I said you have literally repeated what I have seen across many industries, that the people least able to comment on evolution are those closest to the coal face.
Thats just a complete load of tosh.As I said you have literally repeated what I have seen across many industries, that the people least able to comment on evolution are those closest to the coal face.
Good point.You do realise this bizarre discussion is around NATO flying a remote controlled cargo plane with a nuke onboard into Russia for some weird reason, despite the fact that Russia would fire their full strategic arsenal within 15 minutes of it going off
CPDLC and tell me that can support the kind of data transfer required for autonomous flight.
I can’t remember if it was in this thread or elsewhere, a video of AI dogfighting which now surpasses human pilots. Can’t find the original, a truncated version here. Basically they are more precise and the pilot can’t keep up. Also the AI was attacking head on from what I recall in the longer video.
In some theoretical situation where someone was going to do this with full remote control of the aircraft they wouldn't use a data link system like that - they'd use something propitiatory which interfaced with it in a one-use kind of way specific to the mission - as above they don't need to worry about regulations or putting it into safe every day use, etc.
But as I've said you don't need that level of sophistication for this task - get the plane close enough and with some slight modification existing autopilot can do the job - while cruising over Russia at FL320 the pilot is generally doing very little.
Dogfighting has become less and less relevant to combat in the air these days, at least many scenarios, it is more and more about long range sensors and stand-off range munitions. Though AI can be an assist in those scenarios it is much less able to dominate vs human capability.
Thats just a complete load of tosh.
I alluded to this above but the issues are we have gone past the ability of planes to turn etc that humans simply cannot be within that environment.
So dogfighting, or probably in reality more likely, the ability to perform extreme maneuvers to avoid incoming missiles will be limited if a human is in there.
Thats my experience of having worked in change based roles in a number of businesses.
I am doing another again currently with our engineering team. A system (physical and software) that will replace 12 people. They cannot see it coming because they think only a human can do it.
Its pretty much always the same, the assumption by humans that only they can do it.
The people closest to the role see the "noise and complexity". Those stood further back see them differently.
This might well be a Ukraine thread, but it's still a tech forum full of pendantic nerds.You do realise this bizarre discussion is around NATO flying a remote controlled cargo plane with a nuke onboard into Russia for some weird reason, despite the fact that Russia would fire their full strategic arsenal within 15 minutes of it going off
edit: I do see what you're saying though, this discussion is just weird considering people complain that I take things off topic.
You do realise this bizarre discussion is around NATO flying a remote controlled cargo plane with a nuke onboard into Russia for some weird reason, despite the fact that Russia would fire their full strategic arsenal within 15 minutes of it going off
edit: I do see what you're saying though, this discussion is just weird considering people complain that I take things off topic.
Pedantic?This might well be a Ukraine thread, but it's still a tech forum full of pendantic nerds.![]()
Let's hope that's the case so lessons can be learned.Hearing the CR2 has been recovered
Not sure what they are going to do with it given how badly burnt it was but it's better then letting get captured as Russian trophy I guess.Hearing the CR2 has been recovered
Are we talking about replacing the human sticking the ham in the ham sandwich here? Because every job is different and what’s true for one may not necessarily be true for another.
Actually I don’t dispute that at some point flight and most other things will be performed by AI/machines etc.
You seem to think it’s just round the corner, I disagree and think it’s decades away. I’ve been flying since 1999 - I have a good understanding of the technical difficult involved. To be perfectly frank - you don’t.
Right, enough - I shall read your reply with interest but I’m done.