Networking/CCTV for new house (and general questions)

[doodah]

Posted in a few threads across this sub forum and Networking but it's almost crunch time and I want to make sure I've got things right. We're weeks away from getting the keys to our first house (1930s built) and I'm in charge of sorting out our network and CCTV needs. I've had a network cable installer/low voltage quote me £125 per RJ45 run (not bad) but have him on hold for now as we need a few jobs doing by an electrician who can also do cable runs.

Equipment:

• UBIQUITI UniFi Dream Machine SE
• 2 x Unifi G4 Bullet cameras
• G4 doorbell
• WD Purple Pro 8TB Surveillance 3.5"
• Cat6 UTP LSOH Solid Core Cable (either x100m or x300m)
• Cat6 patch panel cables
• Patch panel
• Network cabinet
• Back boxes (for TV/HTPC run and possibly my office)
• Terminating equipment
• Edit - Heath Zenith 35/M Wired Door Chime (compatible with the G4 doorbell)

Runs/plan:

• I'd previously thought of cabling every room (and having at least 2 cables per run) but revised the plan to:
  • 2 x cable runs (one for each AP placed on the ground floor and 1st floor hallway ceilings)
  • 1 run to exterior rear of house for PoE CCTV
  • 1 run to exterior front of house for PoE CCTV
  • Same again for the Unifi doorbell
  • 1 run for the TV/HTPC/media centre (probably 4 cables)
  • Worried the kitchen and garden don't have enough coverage so might do an AP/run on the ceiling of the kitchen or for an outdoor AP
  • Perhaps 1 run (2-3 cables) with plenty of excess to the attic for a future extension
  • I may add a single run for the back bedroom which will be the spare room and my office so would have another back box added here
  • Going to do a run from the front living room where the ONT will be to the network cabinet

As you can see in my original diagram, it's just the one AP for the ground floor which will likely not be good for covering the kitchen and garden. As for the APs - I think I have 3 WiFi5 Unifi APs including 1 LR. These will do for now and when I can be bothered, will swap them out for WiFi 6 versions. I'm meeting the electrician this Friday to have a look at the house, he's just a sparky so won't be terminating but that's something I'd like to do myself.

Questions:

• What's the difference between a patch panel vs keystone patch panel/should I care?
• Unsure how much Cat6 cabling I need - it's either in 100m or 300m rolls
• Will one type of roll of the aforementioned Cat6 cable be enough? Or will I need different types for the CCTV?
• Is my attic run worthwhile or should I just have some runs done when/if we do the loft conversion (will be many years)
• What's a good height for the CCTV cameras (not too high so you can see faces) - internet seems to think ~2.5m*
• Would you still do e.g. 2 cables per run for the APs on the ceiling? As I'm unsure if we're going down the 'through the ceiling route' or the more likely 'neat trunking' route

It's always been assumed the network cabinet would go into the utility room but there is space under the stairs - I just haven't seen what it's like as we missed it on our last viewing. We can re-assess on Friday.

Thanks for your time and please let me know if I a missing something/not considered.


*Front of the house

 

[Peerzy]

For WiFi, I have a single Unifi 6 Pro in my loft and my house is roughly twice the size of yours and I get great coverage everywhere inside and my driveway and garden. I previously had a Nano HD which also covered the same area perfectly. House is from the 60s so every wall is solid. People seem to overspec WiFi in a home, get 1 decent AP and plop it in the centre of the house at the top facing down. I work in IT and regularly have 30+ devices in a downstairs room updating or running things over the internet without issue.

 

[doodah]

For WiFi, I have a single Unifi 6 Pro in my loft and my house is roughly twice the size of yours and I get great coverage everywhere inside and my driveway and garden. I previously had a Nano HD which also covered the same area perfectly. House is from the 60s so every wall is solid. People seem to overspec WiFi in a home, get 1 decent AP and plop it in the centre of the house at the top facing down. I work in IT and regularly have 30+ devices in a downstairs room updating or running things over the internet without issue.

Cheers, I guess the reason for over compensating is due to my current deployment. I have a UDM and AP-LR covering a 2 bed maisonette and whilst the coverage is good - it drops off a cliff in the garden which is only meters away through one wall/window and is OK in our bedroom above (which is why I run a cable to my main rig). So perhaps I could follow through with the run to the attic and put a more powerful AP in there pointing down.



It would also simplify the number of runs as there would be no need for the hallway ceiling runs.

Edit - found my first issue. Thought the G4 doorbell was RJ45/PoE, it's WiFi. And the internet seems to suggest Unifi's door chime isn't very good or loud (deal breaker for me with a hard of hearing mother-in-law). Need to find another chime and think I need a transformer as well.

Edit - I can spot a Ring like doorbell in that front of house picture so at least there's existing wiring for powering whatever doorbell we choose. I'll ask the owners on Friday how their Ring performs with their WiFi, none issue if it runs fine. It's just I've seen multiple mentions on reddit threads of poor WiFi performance despite an AP being nearby.

 

[Armageus]

For WiFi, I have a single Unifi 6 Pro in my loft

So perhaps I could follow through with the run to the attic and put a more powerful AP in there pointing down.

Are you actually putting them in the loft as opposed to on the ceiling? If so you are "wasting" some of the transmit power for what? (not having an AP in view I guess?)

 

[doodah]

Are you actually putting them in the loft as opposed to on the ceiling? If so you are "wasting" some of the transmit power for what? (not having an AP in view I guess?)

Going by their suggestion, was assuming one more powerful AP actually in the attic pointing downwards. Alternatively would be one more powerful AP on the hallway ceiling on the 1st floor.

 

[Armageus]

Questions:

• What's the difference between a patch panel vs keystone patch panel/should I care?

Price mainly - Patch Panels are always cheaper (even once you factor in a punchdown tool). Keystone modules give you flexibility e.g. you can install different modules e.g. can add some Cat6A modules to existing cat5e / cat6 without needing another patch panel that meets the standard (I think you also used to be able to get RJ11 and other less common connectors). Keystone modules are also often tool-less, so don't even need a punchdown tool.


You aren't necessarily forced to have a patch panel - depends how many cable runs you have in total (especially if you don't need near to the full 24 runs of a 1u patch panel) - you can always terminate the "network cupboard" end with Faceplates and Euromod modules as well. 2x Double gang sockets = 8 modules.

DoubleGang CCS Flat Euro Style Faceplate | Faceplates & Backboxes

The Connectix Cabling System double gang faceplates are industry standard size and are compatible with all euro style modules. They are supplied with fixing

www.cablemonkey.co.uk

• Unsure how much Cat6 cabling I need - it's either in 100m or 300m rolls

Depending on how many runs are going in the same direction, sometimes its better to have 2x100m boxes rather than single 305m box, just so you can pull 2 cables at the same time.

• What's a good height for the CCTV cameras (not too high so you can see faces) - internet seems to think ~2.5m*

Pretty much this (normally about 1 foot down from your upstairs window ledge. Whilst "under the eaves" cameras look more discreet, they are too high to see anything useful. Any lower than 2.5m and they are easy to tamper with.

 

[MassiveJim]

People seem to overspec WiFi in a home, get 1 decent AP and plop it in the centre of the house at the top facing down.

I have thought this myself, recently been reading a few threads where people are have 3+ WAPs in their house.

I have an above average sized house, 13m long 8m wide in places.
Garage is about 5m away from the house (and 5m wide)


I have a single Unifi AC-LR AP on the ground floor hallway ceiling roughly in the middle of the house and I get Wi-Fi everywhere, weaker signal in some places but never have a speed issue on mobile devices.


@doodah have you already bought those cameras ?
When I researched our CCTV, the general opinion was that they are overpriced, personally have Hikvision cameras and the picture quality is decent, particularly on the 8k camera

network equipment doesn't run particularly hot, but if it has no airflow (in a cupboard under the stairs) then it will get pretty hot pretty quickly and then you'll likely encounter stability issues.
I killed the built in switch on an ASUS router by sticking it in a drawer.
You can add vents and fans to maintain the airflow though, in our last house I had a NAS in a cupboard and had a couple of 140mm PC fans powered from the NAS extracting hot air out of the cupboard.

are you doing other work to the house ?
ie replastering, ripping up carpets/floor etc ?
running cable is dead easy if you are and I wouldn't be paying someone £125 per run if I was doing that.
My electrician ran some cable for me, I thought it would be a quick job for him tacked on the back of some other work he was doing, but ended up taking longer than expected, and the other work ended up running into another day.

I am decorating our house 1 room at a time and each room I do I am pulling up the floor boards as they all creak badly, so as I am doing this I am running cables at the same time where needed.
I'll be honest though I can't see the need to network every bedroom.
You could always run the cables in the loft above each bedroom and just leave the cables there unless you need them.
I did this with our spare bedroom because there is potential in future it could become the study.

If you are not sure about future runs, put some plastic conduit from the Patch panel location to the loft, that way you can always easily add additional runs later on and running cables down a loft will be much easier.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

I did my friends house using TP Link Deco stuff. 3 units with ethernet backhaul covered 3k sqft including garden/garden room.

 

[doodah]

Thanks @Armageus .

I have a single Unifi AC-LR AP on the ground floor hallway ceiling roughly in the middle of the house and I get Wi-Fi everywhere, weaker signal in some places but never have a speed issue on mobile devices.

As mentioned before, going off my current setup where the LR struggles to do our current 2 bedroom house. But this might be partially due to layout of the house - whereas the new place will be a more traditional deployment.

@doodah have you already bought those cameras ?
When I researched our CCTV, the general opinion was that they are overpriced, personally have Hikvision cameras and the picture quality is decent, particularly on the 8k camera

You're telling me, slightly shocked at charging £400 for the Pro cameras. I considered Hikvision but have seen a number of mentions as one of these 'back door' companies and wasn't entirely sure how they play with Unifi protect. I'm already in the Unifi ecosytem and plan expand into it. Also keeping an eye for second hand G4 Bullet cameras.

network equipment doesn't run particularly hot, but if it has no airflow (in a cupboard under the stairs) then it will get pretty hot pretty quickly and then you'll likely encounter stability issues.
I killed the built in switch on an ASUS router by sticking it in a drawer.
You can add vents and fans to maintain the airflow though, in our last house I had a NAS in a cupboard and had a couple of 140mm PC fans powered from the NAS extracting hot air out of the cupboard.

The preferred option is the utility room, it's not big but imagine a lot better than whatever space is under the stairs.

are you doing other work to the house ?
ie replastering, ripping up carpets/floor etc ?
running cable is dead easy if you are and I wouldn't be paying someone £125 per run if I was doing that.
My electrician ran some cable for me, I thought it would be a quick job for him tacked on the back of some other work he was doing, but ended up taking longer than expected, and the other work ended up running into another day.

I am decorating our house 1 room at a time and each room I do I am pulling up the floor boards as they all creak badly, so as I am doing this I am running cables at the same time where needed.

At this stage - only the electrician to do a few jobs. Not ready for ripping up carpets as that would be all of upstairs and the downstairs bedroom. I've done a couple of runs in our rented place on the cheap but need something more professional and legit for the new house. I'm the tight **** of the two (and usually weary of tradespeople due to countless friends/family getting burned) but this is a situation where I'd rather pay and get it done properly (within reason). Hopefully Friday should give me more information when we see the house again and the electrician can see also see himself.

I did my friends house using TP Link Deco stuff. 3 units with ethernet backhaul covered 3k sqft including garden/garden room.

Thanks for the suggestion, I recently recommended a similar product to a friend. Though these look like they're not PoE which isn't a deal breaker but not having to plug an extra device in random places is preferred.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Thanks for the suggestion, I recently recommended a similar product to a friend. Though these look like they're not PoE which isn't a deal breaker but not having to plug an extra device in random places is preferred.

You sir sound exactly like me when I moved into my house. Respectfully, I will give generous admiration of such "nice to have" requirements get built in the next decade

 

[Peerzy]

Are you actually putting them in the loft as opposed to on the ceiling? If so you are "wasting" some of the transmit power for what? (not having an AP in view I guess?)

Initially it was mounted on the ceiling and in view, we had the ceiling plastered a while back (artex....) and I ran a series of tests around the house with the AP on the ceiling and in the loft (just sitting, face down on the ceiling board) and it made no difference. Well within the tolerances of WiFi so it's stayed in the loft ever since.

 

[doodah]

Having a think I might go with the £125 per run TV aerial/wiring guy for the runs and the electrician for the remaining jobs. Reading the reviews, I think the former is better suited for the runs. Plus he does TV wall installations.

Whilst on TVs - the ideal situation is minimal clutter as our current set up is various devices and cables all over the shop. Assuming we make the back of the TV hard to get, do people use HDMI boxes/splitters as a way to plug in additional devices? I have my HTPC and Switch plugged in, one HDMI spare. However on rare occasions we use the Wii and PS2, so wondering a box of inputs is a good solution to hide away in the TV cabinet below.

 

[doodah]

Turns out the whole house is going to need a rewire. We're awaiting some quotes but the guy we're likely going with has mentioned the chases he'll be doing in the quote. This will be the best opportunity for LAN runs, however, I take it you shouldn't run them next to power? Or are shielded cables a viable option?

 

[Semple]

Turns out the whole house is going to need a rewire. We're awaiting some quotes but the guy we're likely going with has mentioned the chases he'll be doing in the quote. This will be the best opportunity for LAN runs, however, I take it you shouldn't run them next to power? Or are shielded cables a viable option?

Common misconception for domestic installs. For the short runs you'll have next to any power you're very unlikely to experience any interference.

 

[moogle]

Turns out the whole house is going to need a rewire. We're awaiting some quotes but the guy we're likely going with has mentioned the chases he'll be doing in the quote. This will be the best opportunity for LAN runs, however, I take it you shouldn't run them next to power? Or are shielded cables a viable option?

As above, the shielded stuff is really for commercial environments where industrial motors are running that cause lots of electrical interference and noise through the wires. The most you'd get in a house would probably be your washing machine or boiler pump? Maybe a vacuum cleaner plugged in? (if you haven't gone cordless). Even then, I can't think when your networking cable will pass by those circuits closely.

I have heard to keep the networking cables at least 30cm (1ft) away from electrical cables if you can when they are run in parallel, and cross electrical cables at 90 degrees to reduce any interference pickup.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Turns out the whole house is going to need a rewire. We're awaiting some quotes but the guy we're likely going with has mentioned the chases he'll be doing in the quote. This will be the best opportunity for LAN runs, however, I take it you shouldn't run them next to power? Or are shielded cables a viable option?

Are you sure? Electricians seem to love quoting big rewires....

 

[moogle]

Are you sure? Electricians seem to love quoting big rewires....

When do you need a rewire? I get the feeling it's mentioned if your cables are using the old red and black colour scheme but from what I've read the newer wiring is just the different colours (ignoring the electric board install), which is just cosmetic.

I assume rewires are necessary if you have loads of junction boxes under the floors due to years of modifications to the circuits.

 

[doodah]

We'll await the EICR report before making any final decisions, but were always planning a few things with electrics. It was flagged in our surveyor's report and so we followed through with the EICR. Visually you can tell the electrics are a bit old and mediocre, an over reliance on extenders. Some power switches to kitchen electrics are inaccessible, kitchen extension downy lights not fire rated, poor condition of some sockets etc.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

When do you need a rewire? I get the feeling it's mentioned if your cables are using the old red and black colour scheme but from what I've read the newer wiring is just the different colours (ignoring the electric board install), which is just cosmetic.

I assume rewires are necessary if you have loads of junction boxes under the floors due to years of modifications to the circuits.

To be fair I'm a little nervous about my job, as I reused some of red and black - the colour itself isn't an issue, but the casing is definitely a bit more rubbery and stretchy.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

We'll await the EICR report before making any final decisions, but were always planning a few things with electrics. It was flagged in our surveyor's report and so we followed through with the EICR. Visually you can tell the electrics are a bit old and mediocre, an over reliance on extenders. Some power switches to kitchen electrics are inaccessible, kitchen extension downy lights not fire rated, poor condition of some sockets etc.

Eicr will simply say it's not up to regs. Get a trusted sparks in to see whether a full rewire is required.

My friend had his 2008 house recommended for rewire which is just comical.