OcUK Dadsnet thread

[dr_volki]

I had a bit of an "argument" well that's too strong a word, but disagreement maybe with some of the staff at my kid's school.

They're planning a sports day and they want to give everyone medals for turning up. I said, what's the point, that doesn't help build up competitive spirit and wanting to improve or be better than others. Competition is absolutely necessary to learn for children, to make them realise they have to work hard to achieve something. And losing is part of life just as winning is. Giving them a "prize" for just turning up sends the wrong message and creates soft entitled people in my opinion.

Possibly not a popular opinion, but anyway I told them I'm telling my kids not to accept a "turning up" medal, and only want them to get a prize if they deserve it.

fully agree on this one. competitions creates a drive to achieve, which is what we should be teaching kids. it's a societal problem we currently have though, can't have winners and loser, but also a lot of young workers you meet just expect everything to be delivered on a plate while wanting to earn the big bucks.

 

[dlockers]

Aren't we confusing winning trophies with momentos/ basic trinkets to commemorate being there? Sounds like you've thrusted your view onto your kids, too. Can only imagine them being bestowed a basic 20p medal and going aKsHuAlLy

 

[Haggisman]

fully agree on this one. competitions creates a drive to achieve, which is what we should be teaching kids. it's a societal problem we currently have though, can't have winners and loser, but also a lot of young workers you meet just expect everything to be delivered on a plate while wanting to earn the big bucks.

Exactly, it's no wonder they expect to be rewarded literally for just turning up because this is exactly what they're taught from a young age. It's a shame because it's just setting them up to fail - as soon as they get out of that nicey-nicey safe school environment, they're going to be ****, because the real world simply doesn't work that way. You don't get that cushy job just because you turned up at the interview, you don't get the hot girl just by being mediocre, etc.

Aren't we confusing winning trophies with momentos/ basic trinkets to commemorate being there? Sounds like you've thrusted your view onto your kids, too. Can only imagine them being bestowed a basic 20p medal and going aKsHuAlLy

Guessing you don't have school age kids? Medals/prizes are just for being there are very much a thing.

 

[dr_volki]

Aren't we confusing winning trophies with momentos/ basic trinkets to commemorate being there? Sounds like you've thrusted your view onto your kids, too. Can only imagine them being bestowed a basic 20p medal and going aKsHuAlLy

that too, but what's the point in even trying to be best if i just get it handed to me anyway?

 

[Freefaller]

Aren't we confusing winning trophies with momentos/ basic trinkets to commemorate being there? Sounds like you've thrusted your view onto your kids, too. Can only imagine them being bestowed a basic 20p medal and going aKsHuAlLy

A sticker or something, fine. But actually giving a prize for just being there I categorically disagree with.

 

[Freefaller]

Exactly, it's no wonder they expect to be rewarded literally for just turning up because this is exactly what they're taught from a young age. It's a shame because it's just setting them up to fail - as soon as they get out of that nicey-nicey safe school environment, they're going to ****, because the real world simply doesn't work that way. You don't get that cushy job just because you turned up at the interview, you don't get the hot girl just by being mediocre, etc.



Guessing you don't have school age kids? Medals/prizes are just for being there are very much a thing.

100% you put it much better than me.

 

[OG]

Well it's back from paternity leave for me today baby number 2 turned up in the middle of December. I can't believe how quick/simpler the delivery was and my wife feels totally 'redeemed' after the birth/recovery of our first was very difficult.
It's quite amazing how easily number 2 has slotted into our lives, our son (who is just over two) is already wanting to play with her and the novelty of a baby being in the house hasn't worn off in any way which is so good to see. He does of course keep wanting to 'help' so already had a few instances where he's tried to fully pick her up!
With me going back to work I just have a massive overwhelming sense of guilt, our son is in nursery two days a week but my wife is still full time parenting and two young kids can be exhausting at times. Whereas I'm just sat at a desk working (which in no way compares to having to keep two kids alive).

 

[Haggisman]

Well it's back from paternity leave for me today baby number 2 turned up in the middle of December. I can't believe how quick/simpler the delivery was and my wife feels totally 'redeemed' after the birth/recovery of our first was very difficult.
It's quite amazing how easily number 2 has slotted into our lives, our son (who is just over two) is already wanting to play with her and the novelty of a baby being in the house hasn't worn off in any way which is so good to see. He does of course keep wanting to 'help' so already had a few instances where he's tried to fully pick her up!
With me going back to work I just have a massive overwhelming sense of guilt, our son is in nursery two days a week but my wife is still full time parenting and two young kids can be exhausting at times. Whereas I'm just sat at a desk working (which in no way compares to having to keep two kids alive).

Yeah, it's difficult. Just remember you're doing an important job too - keeping a roof over everyone's heads, and do what you can to help out after work. If your wife is anything like my other half, then even just little things like sorting the laundry/washing up/dinner and taking over parenting duties while she has an hour or 2 "off" to do her own thing in the evenings makes a huge difference.

A sticker or something, fine. But actually giving a prize for just being there I categorically disagree with.

I help run our local Scout group, and this is something we try to actively avoid. We have a few disabled kids, so obviously we need to cut them a bit more slack so they don't feel completely left behind, but for everyone else, if you want to win a prize, you're going to have to actually win it, if you want your badges, you're going to have to put in the work, if you want to become a patrol leader, you're going to have to earn it etc.

 

[Freefaller]

Well it's back from paternity leave for me today baby number 2 turned up in the middle of December. I can't believe how quick/simpler the delivery was and my wife feels totally 'redeemed' after the birth/recovery of our first was very difficult.
It's quite amazing how easily number 2 has slotted into our lives, our son (who is just over two) is already wanting to play with her and the novelty of a baby being in the house hasn't worn off in any way which is so good to see. He does of course keep wanting to 'help' so already had a few instances where he's tried to fully pick her up!
With me going back to work I just have a massive overwhelming sense of guilt, our son is in nursery two days a week but my wife is still full time parenting and two young kids can be exhausting at times. Whereas I'm just sat at a desk working (which in no way compares to having to keep two kids alive).

This is why evenings and weekends are so precious. Soak every moment with them. Take your son out or both if you can handle it to let your wife have some "her" time.

Don't feel guilty. Society/biology means this is how it's meant to be. You protect, you provide. Try and do those little chores around the house to lighten the load.

I actually applied for extended paternal leave for my second which was less common than now and it was the best decision I made.

Good luck back at work!

 

[413x]

I had a bit of an "argument" well that's too strong a word, but disagreement maybe with some of the staff at my kid's school.

They're planning a sports day and they want to give everyone medals for turning up. I said, what's the point, that doesn't help build up competitive spirit and wanting to improve or be better than others. Competition is absolutely necessary to learn for children, to make them realise they have to work hard to achieve something. And losing is part of life just as winning is. Giving them a "prize" for just turning up sends the wrong message and creates soft entitled people in my opinion.

Possibly not a popular opinion, but anyway I told them I'm telling my kids not to accept a "turning up" medal, and only want them to get a prize if they deserve it.

As. Someone with sports day/pe trauma Etched into life it's an interesting one.

I don't agree medals should be handed out for everyone. But I do wish sports day was handled differently.

I can only speak for when I was a kid. But nothing else was celebrated. No academic achievement. Not in way sports day was.
I wish myself more sports were included. Because if you weren't good at a select few it was brutal.


Even congnative things like the towers of Hanoi, type challenges could be run along side it.

 

[Freefaller]

As. Someone with sports day/pe trauma Etched into life it's an interesting one.

I don't agree medals should be handed out for everyone. But I do wish sports day was handled differently.

I can only speak for when I was a kid. But nothing else was celebrated. No academic achievement. Not in way sports day was.
I wish myself more sports were included. Because if you weren't good at a select few it was brutal.


Even congnative things like the towers of Hanoi, type challenges could be run along side it.

That's fair. I think encouraging participation is important. I think for me it's about teaching to enjoy the journey and learning to have fun learning and seeing yourself improve.

 

[t2na]

As. Someone with sports day/pe trauma Etched into life it's an interesting one.

I don't agree medals should be handed out for everyone. But I do wish sports day was handled differently.

I can only speak for when I was a kid. But nothing else was celebrated. No academic achievement. Not in way sports day was.
I wish myself more sports were included. Because if you weren't good at a select few it was brutal.


Even congnative things like the towers of Hanoi, type challenges could be run along side it.

I guess it depends what the school is able to offer. I went to an international school and grew up abroad and we had a lot of celebration/achievements for academic items, as well as non-sporting items like drama as well. A friend of mine got 10 A*'s at GCSE and it was a huge deal with a nice award/prize at an assembly the following year.

I played a lot of sport, we didn't really have participation awards outside of the fun 'club' days at the end of the year (i.e. the school hockey club all gets together with the boys/girls teams and everyone gets something).

For regular season, it was a valued achivement to get player of the year or to get man of the match. I would wait for our report to come out the week after the game to see if I got it and went through a phase of cutting it out whenever I got man of the match. It definitely encouraged us all to really want that - but I do accept that it would have been frustrating to never be in a position to win any of those types of awards.

It's a tricky balance, you want to encourage healthy competition and rewarding people who are doing great without feeling like your discouraging others from even taking part.

 

[dlockers]

A sticker or something, fine. But actually giving a prize for just being there I categorically disagree with.

Just explain it isn't a prize but a momento/incentive for participating. You can't have winners if there aren't any losers.

It's just such an overdone boomer whine this whole 'participation trophy' stuff when in reality if you coach your kids well it shouldn't matter. It means more to the kids who have no chance versus the kids who be 2nd, 3rd or 4th in line or w/e. It sounds like you've told your kids to snub their noses up and reject them, which is actually you forcing your issue into them and they'll probably feel able to do it to other kids/their peers now.

I mean I'm pretty sure you get a medal for running the London or reading marathons now. It isn't a kids/teacher thing at all.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

Was going to say get medals for every 10k race I do..where ever I come.

Sometimes its nice to get something for just being part of it.

 

[One More Solo]

I think handing out participation medals breeds a weird sense of entitlement in people regardless of age.

 

[Freefaller]

Was going to say get medals for every 10k race I do..where ever I come.

Sometimes its nice to get something for just being part of it.

That's different - you completed a 10k race - that's not a competition - the competition is with yourself.

Just explain it isn't a prize but a momento/incentive for participating. You can't have winners if there aren't any losers.

It's just such an overdone boomer whine this whole 'participation trophy' stuff when in reality if you coach your kids well it shouldn't matter. It means more to the kids who have no chance versus the kids who be 2nd, 3rd or 4th in line or w/e. It sounds like you've told your kids to snub their noses up and reject them, which is actually you forcing your issue into them and they'll probably feel able to do it to other kids/their peers now.

I mean I'm pretty sure you get a medal for running the London or reading marathons now. It isn't a kids/teacher thing at all.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. You're a lovely chap, and don't want to fall out on how I decide to bring up my children. I'm sure your kids are wonderful with your style of parenting. Maybe I'm a little old fashioned, but I feel happy on the values I was brought up on, and people are astounded at my children's comportment so hopefully it means I'm doing something right. We're all different after all.

 

[ci_newman]

That's different - you completed a 10k race - that's not a competition - the competition is with yourself.

That's not entirely different from a sports day though. Yes there are some children who excel in sports, but the same argument could be said for any child participating in a sporting competition - they are practising the events to challenge themselves and do better than they have before.

Every race I've attended, whether its a fun run, 5km, 10km or half marathon gives you a completion award. You're still racing against other people, otherwise they wouldn't award a trophy for 1st, 2nd and 3rd but the medals at the end of the race are a cool memento to remember the event.

I don't have any problem with a participation award, as long as those who won the competition are rewarded separately with a trophy or whatever.

 

[robj20]

George failed his hearing tests yesterday, they say he probably needs an operation in each ear to relieve fluid.

 

[dlockers]

I think handing out participation medals breeds a weird sense of entitlement in people regardless of age.

 

[Nutty667]

Any advice for helping keep our 5 month old asleep at night? She wakes constantly during the night. Seems to not go into a proper deep sleep for any real length of time. I mean like she wakes anywhere between 5 and 15 times a night. Sometimes like 5 times in an hour. Have to put her dummy in again to calm her. Its draining to say the least... Obvious answer is wean the dummy away but the missus thinks shes too young yet as its the only thing that settles her during the day/night as shes quite grump (mostly due to lack or proper sleep). Its getting near the time to move her to her own room but it doesn't seem feasible with the amount she wakes up.

We think we have a decent bedtime routine. Feed her before bed, give her a wash/bath. Dark room with a nightlight/white noise machine. But she just doesn't stay settled. Our 4 year old I don't recall being this much work to stay asleep :O

How bright is the nightlight? Humans sleep best when it's very dark. I've always adjusted nightlights down in daughters room when she falls asleep.
Does the white noise slowly fade out, or is it going all night ? Any other noises that could be waking her up ?

You're doing right with getting a solid routine down. Routine is probably the single most important aspect for kids bedtime. In time it should sort itself out.