Are you a top revenue earner?

[adam cool dude]

Yeah, you're going to have to run me through the theory on that one.... Show your workings.

I see his point. Minimum wage in 2005 was £5.05 and from April this year it will be £11.44. Inflation puts £5.05 at £8.50 in todays money so people on minimum wage are getting paid a lot more than what they were back then. From a business perspective this encroaches on a lot of the more middle group roles which haven't seen that sort of growth in wages.

 

[Richie]

I see his point. Minimum wage in 2005 was £5.05 and from April this year it will be £11.44. Inflation puts £5.05 at £8.50 in todays money so people on minimum wage are getting paid a lot more than what they were back then. From a business perspective this encroaches on a lot of the more middle group roles which haven't seen that sort of growth in wages.

Ah, I see what he meant now.

It could be argued that they are simply catching up from the 10 years preceding the introduction of the NMW where the growth in wages for the higher paid wasn't reciprocated in the lower paid workers.
It could also be argued that the better paid jobs aren't paid enough and have wrongly stagnated.

I certainly don't think those on NMW are financially secure (for the most part) so required the wage growth received.

 

[Grim5]

I see his point. Minimum wage in 2005 was £5.05 and from April this year it will be £11.44. Inflation puts £5.05 at £8.50 in todays money so people on minimum wage are getting paid a lot more than what they were back then. From a business perspective this encroaches on a lot of the more middle group roles which haven't seen that sort of growth in wages.

This is happening in Australia and New Zealand as well, they copy of lot from Britain and the minimum wage has been rising faster than inflation and the gap between minimum wage and middle income has narrowed a lot. As such there now are office workers earning just a little bit more than someone washing the dishes at McDonalds

 

[FoxEye]

I see his point. Minimum wage in 2005 was £5.05 and from April this year it will be £11.44. Inflation puts £5.05 at £8.50 in todays money so people on minimum wage are getting paid a lot more than what they were back then. From a business perspective this encroaches on a lot of the more middle group roles which haven't seen that sort of growth in wages.

I'm not sure why that's a problem.

Jobs that pay NMW are still jobs that need doing.

In a lot of cases people would still prefer to do other work, even if it were not paying massively more than NMW. Because a lot of NMW work is mind-numbing stuff. But those people still need to make enough money to live. They are still productive workers. They are still doing work that needs doing.

(Also you seem to be arguing against your stance in the fish-filleting thread?)

Where a person needs to accrue £30k student debt to do their job, then sure, it needs to pay out a lot more than NMW. Maybe. Depends on the degree Maybe we don't actually need all those graduates in any case.

Maybe, just maybe, we actually need more people doing those NMW jobs than we need graduates in media studies, etc... Maybe the NMW workers are the more useful...

 

[platinum87]

Yeah, you're going to have to run me through the theory on that one.... Show your workings.

Draw a bell curve distribution, which represents the worth of each employee based on skills, experience and work ethic.

The middle of said curve will be the median wage, or the average wage. Now draw a vertical line, to the left of the middle which will represent the minimum wage.

Everyone to the left of that line is being overpaid, If the average or median increases, the minimum wage is relatively lower, and such, the line moves more left, thus less people will be overpaid

So to give an extreme example, if i were to set the minimum wage to the median income next month, then 50% of employees are overpaid in that situation in theory.

 

[Allnamestaken]

Spending an entire decade doing basically nothing, career, personal life etc is pretty grim.
Especially your 20s. Which are supposed to be a good one!

Don't you own a house with a well above average salary?

How can you say youve accomplished nothing in your 20s?

 

[413x]

Don't you own a house with a well above average salary?

How can you say youve accomplished nothing in your 20s?

I only bought house at 34.
I was earning under 30k until 30 years old.
I didn't go abroad in 7 years
All my Current friends are post 30
Barely any pension contributions
Bit of a mess mentally

 

[Allnamestaken]

I only bought house at 34.
I was earning under 30k until 30 years old.
I didn't go abroad in 7 years
All my Current friends are post 30

You and me both bro.

Deffo don't downplay what you have, you did well either way.

 

[413x]

You and me both bro.

Deffo don't downplay what you have, you did well either way.

I did OK after 30.
But my 20s were bad. Just being passive, coasting, going with the flow.

Saddest part.. After uni until 30.. I barely have a memory of any significant events. It's like a void. I mean it's 9 years from 21 to 30. Just feels a bit "meh"

 

[mid_gen]

This is happening in Australia and New Zealand as well, they copy of lot from Britain and the minimum wage has been rising faster than inflation and the gap between minimum wage and middle income has narrowed a lot. As such there now are office workers earning just a little bit more than someone washing the dishes at McDonalds

I don't see a problem with this. Retail and service industry workers need to put a roof over their head, and even with wage parity I'm sure most people would rather be sat a desk than flipping burgers.

 

[moon man]

Well not working still but give me a physical job over a desk any day, even when i was cnc programing i enjoyed hauling big lumps of stainless and titanium rather than pen pushing, that's just a slow death

 

[jeffk]

Draw a bell curve distribution, which represents the worth of each employee based on skills, experience and work ethic.

The middle of said curve will be the median wage, or the average wage. Now draw a vertical line, to the left of the middle which will represent the minimum wage.

Everyone to the left of that line is being overpaid, If the average or median increases, the minimum wage is relatively lower, and such, the line moves more left, thus less people will be overpaid.

The problem isn’t the rise in the NMW. The problem is that wages for most jobs haven’t kept up with rises in productivity.

The reason that people think that train drivers are overpaid is that they’ve successful fought against this wage suppression.

 

[Diddums]

I don't see a problem with this. Retail and service industry workers need to put a roof over their head, and even with wage parity I'm sure most people would rather be sat a desk than flipping burgers.

Having worked in restaurants, I'd probably sign on before doing it again. Absolutely soul destroying job, sucking up to Karens and Keiths all day. Never again.

 

[moon man]

Well I have a vegan clause in my dole documentation so can only flip vegan burgers

 

[Diddums]

Just looked at our outgoings over the weekend, we're currently paying £1825 a month on debts. No mortgage, just loans and credit cards.

No interest apart from the loans, one is 3.5% and the other 4%.

The CCs have all been shuffled to 0% interest and have been for the last few years, so not costing anything extra.

Bit eye opening when we lay it out like that tbh, I've reduced the CC payments to minimum and funneled all that in to the loans to get them paid off in a couple of months, we'll then smash the cards out too.

To think that in our twenties we just went on a rampage and lived like rabid teenagers on credit cards, some of which were 40% interest!

Neither of us had parents to tell us to stop being idiots and we learned the hard way, I would actively encourage anyone to audit their debts from time to time as it could be costing you an absolute fortune. If you have kids of that age then speak to them too, our debts ruined our lives for quite a few years


I know all the tricks to getting out of debt, if you need some confidential advice feel free to PM me.

 

[platinum87]

The problem isn’t the rise in the NMW. The problem is that wages for most jobs haven’t kept up with rises in productivity.

The reason that people think that train drivers are overpaid is that they’ve successful fought against this wage suppression.

The impact of minimum wage is to artificially mess with the labor market, rather than letting market forces determine wages.

I am not so much saying there is a problem, i was using an example of how someone is being overpaid, and underpaid.

But no, train drivers are paid more than their worth due to unions.

The cost of train tickets are absurd, and that is the situation, pay too much (FYI the entire rail system is ****, train drivers are not the only issue). And something which should be cheap is expensive.

Anyone here commuting via train, how much is it?

As for productivity, this is just a dream.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Just looked at our outgoings over the weekend, we're currently paying £1825 a month on debts. No mortgage, just loans and credit cards.

I really don't think I could live like this. I've got money behind me now in case of unexpected job loss etc and I still worry about money more than I probably should.

I even hate seeing the interest on the mortgage each month and it's currently at a really good rate, but I'm still overpaying to bring the term down massively.

I know life is for living and all that, but credit card debt when you're not in a position to pay it off before the 40% interest kicks in just isn't it.

 

[Diddums]

I really don't think I could live like this. I've got money behind me now in case of unexpected job loss etc and I still worry about money more than I probably should.

I even hate seeing the interest on the mortgage each month and it's currently at a really good rate, but I'm still overpaying to bring the term down massively.

I know life is for living and all that, but credit card debt when you're not in a position to pay it off before the 40% interest kicks in just isn't it.

We were idiots when we were young, as I suspect many are. Hindsight is a wonderful thing sadly, and I wouldn't wish what we went through on anyone.

We've actually got quite a bit of capital but we're just whittling these debts down from our younger days.

The sad part is that most people are embarrassed about their debts and this will affect their mental health, it's a horrible situation to be in.

 

[jeffk]

The impact of minimum wage is to artificially mess with the labor market, rather than letting market forces determine wages.

Yes, it’s working as intended. Forcing companies to pay people enough to live means fewer people reliant on the state.

The cost of train tickets are absurd, and that is the situation, pay too much (FYI the entire rail system is ****, train drivers are not the only issue). And something which should be cheap is expensive.

Railways cost a lot of money to run. In this country, we don’t subsidise this cost very much compared to other developed nations and we allow private operators to funnel out of the system.

The cost of tickets is high because of government policy.

 

[Maccy]

Just looked at our outgoings over the weekend, we're currently paying £1825 a month on debts. No mortgage, just loans and credit cards.

No interest apart from the loans, one is 3.5% and the other 4%.

The CCs have all been shuffled to 0% interest and have been for the last few years, so not costing anything extra.

Bit eye opening when we lay it out like that tbh, I've reduced the CC payments to minimum and funneled all that in to the loans to get them paid off in a couple of months, we'll then smash the cards out too.

To think that in our twenties we just went on a rampage and lived like rabid teenagers on credit cards, some of which were 40% interest!

Neither of us had parents to tell us to stop being idiots and we learned the hard way, I would actively encourage anyone to audit their debts from time to time as it could be costing you an absolute fortune. If you have kids of that age then speak to them too, our debts ruined our lives for quite a few years


I know all the tricks to getting out of debt, if you need some confidential advice feel free to PM me.

Easy to do though mate, and if you're not educated (like so many people) then how are you to know any better? I ended up in a downward spiral in my 20s, thankfully I was able to get it shifted all onto a 0% card and clear it over a few years.