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*** The AMD RDNA 4 Rumour Mill ***
- Thread starter humbug
- Start date
Assuming similarity in (raw) gaming performance between the 5070TI and the 9070XT then 600 quid still sounds too much for the AMD card to me.
With the amount of additional non-gaming utility with Nvidia cards and the way it all "just works" you are effectively getting a suite of products with team green's offering. If you're the average Windows user, AMD (for now at least) are only really offering you one function: gaming.
Furthermore, that gaming function will always lack the sophistication of Nvidia's software suite (and their formidable R & D budget) and will always lag behind in this regard.
So therefore there needs to be a significant difference in price to reflect all of this. It's a little bit like the difference between buying a PC and a console: even if the gaming experience was similar, I'd always expect to pay more for the PC because of everything else it can do.
It's not just mindshare...
With the amount of additional non-gaming utility with Nvidia cards and the way it all "just works" you are effectively getting a suite of products with team green's offering. If you're the average Windows user, AMD (for now at least) are only really offering you one function: gaming.
Furthermore, that gaming function will always lack the sophistication of Nvidia's software suite (and their formidable R & D budget) and will always lag behind in this regard.
So therefore there needs to be a significant difference in price to reflect all of this. It's a little bit like the difference between buying a PC and a console: even if the gaming experience was similar, I'd always expect to pay more for the PC because of everything else it can do.
It's not just mindshare...
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If the 5070 Ti is £750+ i can't see AMD pricing it much under £600
You're probably right, knowing AMD, but I think it would be a mistake to price it higher than the 5070.
I mean sure but then again it seems pricing the 7800 XT above the 4060 was also a mistake.
My understanding is that the 7800XT sold well when it hit the 450 (and sometimes even lower) mark. I think AMD will surely have seen the data on this and so I hope that they will cut to the chase and just come out of the gate with that sweet spot price. Given inflation, I think an RRP of 499 (assuming that is still significantly profitable) should be the aim.
Does this sound crazy to anyone else? what specifically are you happy to pay £150-200 more if performance is comparable. My last 4 AMD cards have "just worked", are you happy to pay that for MFG?
Its not even listed on the Steam Hardware Survey.
How cheap do they have to be to sell anything like the worst selling SKU from Nvidia?
My argument contained reasons to justify its conclusion. Feel free to disagree with any of them.
This isn't about happiness, it's about the utility of the product. Nvidia charge more because they can.
Features and software are in noway comparable, then there is the case of Nvidia having 90% market/mind share. AMD has to be disruptive with pricing to make a dent. $600 msrp with aib asking even more is not it.
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I asked because I'm curious about what specifically you are willing to pay 30% more for, I'm just looking to make the best decision on my next upgrade not to start an argument. I don't really look too in depth unless performance charts and price are close.
Sounds daft to me also.
I'm out, will pop back in when something official comes.
Keep them fingers crossed for a low price, would love to be wrong.
Whilst the Steam survey data is an interesting data point, it has been shown to have huge swings in its findings due to the random nature of the sampling. I'm not an expert in sales data but I wouldn't take the Steam data as being conclusive. A cumulative approach (bringing together data from various sources over the last couple of years such as online retailers) seems to indicate that the 7800XT sold relatively well.
What features and software do you mean? Honestly not trying to trip anyone up I've had a 7900xt and 4070ti in the last 2 years and apart from ray tracing and iracing performance they both seemed similarly useable.
Isn't the rumoured performance of this thing +10-15% over the 7900 XT? The 7900 XT can currently be bought for <£650 and has been <£600 a few times over the past six months, so £600 for the MBA would be a very disappointing price for the 9070 XT. It would make Nvidia's generational uplift seem generous.
If the norm is for a 30-40% generational uplift then to deliver that the 9070 XT needs to be in the £450-£550 range, or the leaked benchmarks need to be understating the performance by ~20%.
If the norm is for a 30-40% generational uplift then to deliver that the 9070 XT needs to be in the £450-£550 range, or the leaked benchmarks need to be understating the performance by ~20%.
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I prefer the 420 rasta
No problem.
Here's what I originally said:
Assuming similarity in (raw) gaming performance between the 5070TI and the 9070XT then 600 quid still sounds too much for the AMD card to me.
With the amount of additional non-gaming utility with Nvidia cards and the way it all "just works" you are effectively getting a suite of products with team green's offering. If you're the average Windows user, AMD (for now at least) are only really offering you one function: gaming.
Furthermore, that gaming function will always lack the sophistication of Nvidia's software suite (and their formidable R & D budget) and will always lag behind in this regard.
So therefore there needs to be a significant difference in price to reflect all of this. It's a little bit like the difference between buying a PC and a console: even if the gaming experience was similar, I'd always expect to pay more for the PC because of everything else it can do.
It's not just mindshare...
The point was not that I am personally overjoyed at the prospect of paying more for the Nvidia product. The point is that given Nvidia's "suite of products" beyond just gaming and their extra software tools, their products are more versatile. The core logic is that value comes from more than just raw performance. Features, software quality, and versatility contribute to a product's overall worth, allowing a company like Nvidia to command a premium price even if AMD offers similar gaming power.
Intel understand this which is why they are targeting a segment of the market and coming in cheap. AMD should follow suit.
This is a value-neutral, unemotional analysis of the situation. Not the desire of my heart. I would like Nvidia to charge significantly less than they do! But (for now at least) they don't have to. So hopefully AMD will come in at the right price and lay a claim to that segment of the market. That will give them a solid foundation to build on for the next gen.
For what it's worth, I'm hoping to buy the AMD card if the price is right. If it isn't I'll likely go for a used 40 series.
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Associate
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Honestly I'm gonna call it as i see it, that's the biggest load of ******** I've ever read.
"Just works" I'm sorry but both AMD and Nvidia cards "Just Work" serious driver issues are long gone and both companies perform well. There will ALWAYS be issues for both companies but any issue is blown way out of proportion by Internet fan boys because the vast majority of people have no issues.
And before you bring up little issues like multi-monitor power draw, honestly outside of Internet forums no one cares, if you're so desperate to save 90 pence of the course of an entire year buy a damn PlayStation.
The "Software Suite" i mean outside of DLSS and FSR there's not much difference between the two, and even with DLSS and FSR unless you are looking for issues or your some kind of reviewer the average gamer won't notice the difference.
Beside if you want to talk about "Literal Software" anyone who things Nvidia wins is clearly delusional no one and seriously believe AMD Adrenaline was worse than Nvidias Software? Like seriously it's been better for years, Nvidias newest software is a lot better than what it was and has improved a hell of a lot.
People need to get over all of this crap, the gap is not wide enough to justify 100s and 100s more in price. You literally mention the "Average" gamer.... the "Average" gamer doesn't care about 90% of this software outside of DLSS and FSR they don't turn this stuff on unless it's on by default I'm a game.
But no I'm sorry Nvidia praise be the 0s and 1s all hail our lord and saviour Jenson while he graces us with software bless us with the AI and the neverending software updates.
Outside of "Similar" raw performance the ONLY significant software is DLSS and FSR and they are close enough with each other that it doesn't matter to the Average user, they simply say it's better because the regurgitate what others say.
Just to clarify, none of us are an Average gamer, no one on reddit, no one on tech sites, no one who watches techtubers none of them are "Average"
Do you know who is? That guy with one forum post saying there still using a 1060 and are asking whats good for £300 or £400 or whatever, they dont gove a rats arse whether its AMD of Nvidia and dont care about the software.
(I'm sorry I'm tired and grouchy and I'm now going to sleep!)
Let's be realistic they could be free and AMD gives you 5 games with it and people would still buy Nvidia over accepting that offer.
I DONT LIKE THOSE GAMES!?!?¿?
The reality is like you have said any many others say, people don't want cheaper AMD cards, they want AMD to bring Nvidia prices down.
I really hope AMD can pull a rabbit out of the hat with the 5070 and 5070xt if we can change the herpa derpa mentality it's going to help the industry improve as a whole.
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If you think Nvidia command a premium for their software that's a you problem, if you want that premium software pay for it, $600 while a little too high for my taste is still a 25% premium for that Nvidia software, if its = to a 5070 Ti i'd like to see it at $550 just because that is the limit of what i'm willing to pay for any GPU, that's a 36% premium for Nvidia software.
If you think Nvidia GPU's are too expensive take it up with them, its not AMD's job to get in to a price war with Nvidia on your behalf, its AMD's job to make as much money as they can from their products, just as it is Nvidia's, AMD are not an exception to that rule, and if they can sell 1,000,00 units at $600 or $1.100.000 at $500 then they are not making as much money doing the latter, that's the reality, the fantasy is assuming Nvidia have such a premium for software and its AMD's job to empathetically provide the lube when you volunteer to bend over for Nvidia.
They are a business, not a charity.
Direct your disapproval at this situation at those whom caused it.
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Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome.
AMD have and have not in the past tried to battle Nvidia on price, including selling at below cost, ATI tried it before them, none of it ever worked, why? Because this market only ever blames Nvidia's opponents for Nvidia's deeds, they have the perfect market position, they can do as they please and when they do AMD cop the fallout from it further diminishing AMD's mindshare and bolstering Nvidia's.
This market is insane and its not going to take much more before even AMD recognise that as a hard truth.
AMD have and have not in the past tried to battle Nvidia on price, including selling at below cost, ATI tried it before them, none of it ever worked, why? Because this market only ever blames Nvidia's opponents for Nvidia's deeds, they have the perfect market position, they can do as they please and when they do AMD cop the fallout from it further diminishing AMD's mindshare and bolstering Nvidia's.
This market is insane and its not going to take much more before even AMD recognise that as a hard truth.