*** The AMD RDNA 4 Rumour Mill ***

[Sumanji]

If the 5070ti is £800 (no FE remember, I doubt we'll get one for MSRP here), then a 9070xt that offers similar performance minus MFG (which has no appeal to me) at £600 gets my money. It's really quite simple. If you think £600 is too much, then buy a 5070ti for £200 more, then you're part of the problem. A general 'you', not you specifically

I think this nails the heart of it, tbh.

I think AMD has to match the pricing of the Nvidia card a tier below its performance at a minimum, if AMD can match a 5070ti in performance yet price it the same as a 5070 then it’ll be a winner.

I just don't agree with this line of thinking, man... see Bidley's comment above.

<snip>

• This whole "we want to get market share" strategy is relatively new iirc? I'm still not sure they actually mean that in the way that we do (i.e., they may want more share, but not at the expense of decimating margins). It's clear that they were chasing profit margins by slipstreaming behind Nvidia's pricing for the prior two generations.
• Do you have data on unsold inventory? Anecdotally, on OcUK there seems to be decent stock of the 7600/700/800 series, but both 7900 models look thin (for XTX, only the Sapphire is in stock!)
• The console business part is interesting, but I see it from the other side:
  • AMD have entrenched a great position here for the past two console generations (and have already reportedly beat Intel and Broadcom to win the PS6 design)
  • Many games are initially designed for console and then ported (often lazily!) over to PC
  • They've failed to leverage that into better relationships and support for PC devs, and driving more PC gamer awareness - I agree that this is down to lack of spending, as you pointed out
  • But I don't see failure in PC impacting console wins (they're so far down the e-curve on that)
• Strix Halo vs. the Nvidia SOC will be super interesting - we're likely going to get a total erosion of the lower end discrete card market, which I suspect will continue to creep upwards...

 

[NZXT30]

This is more or less standard launch.

There is nothing standard about the 9070 launch. The way the whole thing has been handled is bizarre.

 

[Gerard]

Apparently the 9070xt it is around 4080 level of Rasta,

 

[Octoplex7]

Assuming similarity in (raw) gaming performance between the 5070TI and the 9070XT then 600 quid still sounds too much for the AMD card to me.
With the amount of additional non-gaming utility with Nvidia cards and the way it all "just works" you are effectively getting a suite of products with team green's offering. If you're the average Windows user, AMD (for now at least) are only really offering you one function: gaming.
Furthermore, that gaming function will always lack the sophistication of Nvidia's software suite (and their formidable R & D budget) and will always lag behind in this regard.
So therefore there needs to be a significant difference in price to reflect all of this. It's a little bit like the difference between buying a PC and a console: even if the gaming experience was similar, I'd always expect to pay more for the PC because of everything else it can do.
It's not just mindshare...

 

[humbug]

Assuming similarity in (raw) gaming performance between the 5070TI and the 9070XT then 600 quid still sounds too much for the AMD card to me.
With the amount of additional non-gaming utility with Nvidia cards and the way it all "just works" you are effectively getting a suite of products with team green's offering. If you're the average Windows user, AMD (for now at least) are only really offering you one function: gaming.
Furthermore, that gaming function will always lack the sophistication of Nvidia's software suite (and their formidable R & D budget) and will always lag behind in this regard.
So therefore there needs to be a significant difference in price to reflect all of this. It's a little bit like the difference between buying a PC and a console: even if the gaming experience was similar, I'd always expect to pay more for the PC because of everything else it can do.
It's not just mindshare...

If the 5070 Ti is £750+ i can't see AMD pricing it much under £600

 

[Octoplex7]

If the 5070 Ti is £750+ i can't see AMD pricing it much under £600

You're probably right, knowing AMD, but I think it would be a mistake to price it higher than the 5070.

 

[humbug]

You're probably right, knowing AMD, but I think it would be a mistake to price it higher than the 5070.

I mean sure but then again it seems pricing the 7800 XT above the 4060 was also a mistake.

 

[Octoplex7]

I mean sure but then again it seems pricing the 7800 XT above the 4060 was also a mistake.

My understanding is that the 7800XT sold well when it hit the 450 (and sometimes even lower) mark. I think AMD will surely have seen the data on this and so I hope that they will cut to the chase and just come out of the gate with that sweet spot price. Given inflation, I think an RRP of 499 (assuming that is still significantly profitable) should be the aim.

 

[ukmets]

Assuming similarity in (raw) gaming performance between the 5070TI and the 9070XT then 600 quid still sounds too much for the AMD card to me.
With the amount of additional non-gaming utility with Nvidia cards and the way it all "just works" you are effectively getting a suite of products with team green's offering. If you're the average Windows user, AMD (for now at least) are only really offering you one function: gaming.
Furthermore, that gaming function will always lack the sophistication of Nvidia's software suite (and their formidable R & D budget) and will always lag behind in this regard.
So therefore there needs to be a significant difference in price to reflect all of this. It's a little bit like the difference between buying a PC and a console: even if the gaming experience was similar, I'd always expect to pay more for the PC because of everything else it can do.
It's not just mindshare...

Does this sound crazy to anyone else? what specifically are you happy to pay £150-200 more if performance is comparable. My last 4 AMD cards have "just worked", are you happy to pay that for MFG?

 

[humbug]

My understanding is that the 7800XT sold well when it hit the 450 (and sometimes even lower) mark. I think AMD will surely have seen the data on this and so I hope that they will cut to the chase and just come out of the gate with that sweet spot price. Given inflation, I think an RRP of 499 (assuming that is still significantly profitable) should be the aim.

Its not even listed on the Steam Hardware Survey.

How cheap do they have to be to sell anything like the worst selling SKU from Nvidia?

 

[Octoplex7]

Does this sound crazy to anyone else? what specifically are you happy to pay £150-200 more if performance is comparable. My last 4 AMD cards have "just worked", are you happy to pay that for MFG?

My argument contained reasons to justify its conclusion. Feel free to disagree with any of them.
This isn't about happiness, it's about the utility of the product. Nvidia charge more because they can.

 

[RavenXXX2]

Does this sound crazy to anyone else? what specifically are you happy to pay £150-200 more if performance is comparable. My last 4 AMD cards have "just worked", are you happy to pay that for MFG?

Features and software are in noway comparable, then there is the case of Nvidia having 90% market/mind share. AMD has to be disruptive with pricing to make a dent. $600 msrp with aib asking even more is not it.

 

[ukmets]

My argument contained reasons to justify its conclusion. Feel free to disagree with any of them.
This isn't about happiness, it's about the utility of the product. Nvidia charge more because they can.

I asked because I'm curious about what specifically you are willing to pay 30% more for, I'm just looking to make the best decision on my next upgrade not to start an argument. I don't really look too in depth unless performance charts and price are close.

 

[ZG002]

Does this sound crazy to anyone else? what specifically are you happy to pay £150-200 more if performance is comparable. My last 4 AMD cards have "just worked", are you happy to pay that for MFG?

Sounds daft to me also.

I'm out, will pop back in when something official comes.

Keep them fingers crossed for a low price, would love to be wrong.

 

[Octoplex7]

Its not even listed on the Steam Hardware Survey.

How cheap do they have to be to sell anything like the worst selling SKU from Nvidia?

Whilst the Steam survey data is an interesting data point, it has been shown to have huge swings in its findings due to the random nature of the sampling. I'm not an expert in sales data but I wouldn't take the Steam data as being conclusive. A cumulative approach (bringing together data from various sources over the last couple of years such as online retailers) seems to indicate that the 7800XT sold relatively well.

 

[ukmets]

Features and software are in noway comparable, then there is the case of Nvidia having 90% market/mind share. AMD has to be disruptive with pricing to make a dent. $600 msrp with aib asking even more is not it.

What features and software do you mean? Honestly not trying to trip anyone up I've had a 7900xt and 4070ti in the last 2 years and apart from ray tracing and iracing performance they both seemed similarly useable.

 

[McPhee]

Isn't the rumoured performance of this thing +10-15% over the 7900 XT? The 7900 XT can currently be bought for <£650 and has been <£600 a few times over the past six months, so £600 for the MBA would be a very disappointing price for the 9070 XT. It would make Nvidia's generational uplift seem generous.

If the norm is for a 30-40% generational uplift then to deliver that the 9070 XT needs to be in the £450-£550 range, or the leaked benchmarks need to be understating the performance by ~20%.

 

[Grim5]

I prefer the 420 rasta

 

[Octoplex7]

I asked because I'm curious about what specifically you are willing to pay 30% more for, I'm just looking to make the best decision on my next upgrade not to start an argument. I don't really look too in depth unless performance charts and price are close.

No problem.

Here's what I originally said:

Assuming similarity in (raw) gaming performance between the 5070TI and the 9070XT then 600 quid still sounds too much for the AMD card to me.
With the amount of additional non-gaming utility with Nvidia cards and the way it all "just works" you are effectively getting a suite of products with team green's offering. If you're the average Windows user, AMD (for now at least) are only really offering you one function: gaming.
Furthermore, that gaming function will always lack the sophistication of Nvidia's software suite (and their formidable R & D budget) and will always lag behind in this regard.
So therefore there needs to be a significant difference in price to reflect all of this. It's a little bit like the difference between buying a PC and a console: even if the gaming experience was similar, I'd always expect to pay more for the PC because of everything else it can do.
It's not just mindshare...

The point was not that I am personally overjoyed at the prospect of paying more for the Nvidia product. The point is that given Nvidia's "suite of products" beyond just gaming and their extra software tools, their products are more versatile. The core logic is that value comes from more than just raw performance. Features, software quality, and versatility contribute to a product's overall worth, allowing a company like Nvidia to command a premium price even if AMD offers similar gaming power.
Intel understand this which is why they are targeting a segment of the market and coming in cheap. AMD should follow suit.

This is a value-neutral, unemotional analysis of the situation. Not the desire of my heart. I would like Nvidia to charge significantly less than they do! But (for now at least) they don't have to. So hopefully AMD will come in at the right price and lay a claim to that segment of the market. That will give them a solid foundation to build on for the next gen.

For what it's worth, I'm hoping to buy the AMD card if the price is right. If it isn't I'll likely go for a used 40 series.

 

[kieran_read]

Assuming similarity in (raw) gaming performance between the 5070TI and the 9070XT then 600 quid still sounds too much for the AMD card to me.
With the amount of additional non-gaming utility with Nvidia cards and the way it all "just works" you are effectively getting a suite of products with team green's offering. If you're the average Windows user, AMD (for now at least) are only really offering you one function: gaming.
Furthermore, that gaming function will always lack the sophistication of Nvidia's software suite (their formidable R & D budget) and will always lag behind in this regard.
So therefore there needs to be a significant difference in price to reflect all of this. It's a little bit like the difference between buying a PC and a console: even if the gaming experience was similar, I'd always expect to pay more for the PC because of everything else it can do.
It's not just mindshare...

Honestly I'm gonna call it as i see it, that's the biggest load of ******** I've ever read.

"Just works" I'm sorry but both AMD and Nvidia cards "Just Work" serious driver issues are long gone and both companies perform well. There will ALWAYS be issues for both companies but any issue is blown way out of proportion by Internet fan boys because the vast majority of people have no issues.

And before you bring up little issues like multi-monitor power draw, honestly outside of Internet forums no one cares, if you're so desperate to save 90 pence of the course of an entire year buy a damn PlayStation.

The "Software Suite" i mean outside of DLSS and FSR there's not much difference between the two, and even with DLSS and FSR unless you are looking for issues or your some kind of reviewer the average gamer won't notice the difference.

Beside if you want to talk about "Literal Software" anyone who things Nvidia wins is clearly delusional no one and seriously believe AMD Adrenaline was worse than Nvidias Software? Like seriously it's been better for years, Nvidias newest software is a lot better than what it was and has improved a hell of a lot.

People need to get over all of this crap, the gap is not wide enough to justify 100s and 100s more in price. You literally mention the "Average" gamer.... the "Average" gamer doesn't care about 90% of this software outside of DLSS and FSR they don't turn this stuff on unless it's on by default I'm a game.

But no I'm sorry Nvidia praise be the 0s and 1s all hail our lord and saviour Jenson while he graces us with software bless us with the AI and the neverending software updates.

Outside of "Similar" raw performance the ONLY significant software is DLSS and FSR and they are close enough with each other that it doesn't matter to the Average user, they simply say it's better because the regurgitate what others say.

Just to clarify, none of us are an Average gamer, no one on reddit, no one on tech sites, no one who watches techtubers none of them are "Average"

Do you know who is? That guy with one forum post saying there still using a 1060 and are asking whats good for £300 or £400 or whatever, they dont gove a rats arse whether its AMD of Nvidia and dont care about the software.

(I'm sorry I'm tired and grouchy and I'm now going to sleep!)

Its not even listed on the Steam Hardware Survey.

How cheap do they have to be to sell anything like the worst selling SKU from Nvidia?

Let's be realistic they could be free and AMD gives you 5 games with it and people would still buy Nvidia over accepting that offer.

I DONT LIKE THOSE GAMES!?!?¿?

The reality is like you have said any many others say, people don't want cheaper AMD cards, they want AMD to bring Nvidia prices down.

I really hope AMD can pull a rabbit out of the hat with the 5070 and 5070xt if we can change the herpa derpa mentality it's going to help the industry improve as a whole.