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NVIDIA RTX 50 SERIES - Technical/General Discussion

opethdisciple said:
Clearly the next frontier for AI generated fps is not to give us more fps when we already have a good frame rate (due to latency), but to give us more frames when we are struggling to generate the frames in the first place.

That's what we want.
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It would be nice if you could generate as many extra frames as you need to hit a desired frame rate. For example, if you are running at 95fps and want to hit 120fps, only 25 frames will be generated. Currently, if you enable FG with 95fps on a 120hz monitor, your native fps will drop to 60 (ish) and 60 fake frames will be generated. I have no idea how this would work in terms of consistent frame times, but it must be possible.
 
opethdisciple said:
Clearly the next frontier for AI generated fps is not to give us more fps when we already have a good frame rate (due to latency), but to give us more frames when we are struggling to generate the frames in the first place.

That's what we want.
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Going to take years to solve this issue, lots of research is taking place though, so will be interesting to see what comes 2030 beyond.
 
Grim5 said:
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Jesus, it's worse than I thought :o

It reminds me of my first MP3 player. Limited space meant using low bit rate lossy encoding, just to fit enough songs for it to make sense. The question at the time was 'How many songs can I fit without the sound becoming unenjoyable?' However, once I could afford a hard drive based player, I immediately went straight to 320kpbs. It didn't matter if I could hear the difference in an ABX test, on this specific album, with this codec, etc, etc. The point was that technology (and my budget) had moved on to the point that I didn't have to intentionally lower the quality of the music.

I feel we've lost the point of all this graphics tech. The direction so far has been about making the quality of the image better. Frame-gen is the opposite, it's 'new' MP3 when we already had FLAC and terabyte SD cards.
 
Nitefly said:
With apologies for the wall of text :o

Hmm, I think you’re talking cross-purposes here. People with 30 series cards are just saying that are looking forward to the massive upgrade they will get and that it’s an exciting purchase for them. I know you said you weren’t picking on those two initial people specifically, but commenting about people’s buying choices as you did makes it sound like you think:

(1) people don’t upgrade based on how the prospective upgrade actually compares to their perceived value what they actually already own <- when they do.
(2) everyone has had full knowledge of what is to come in technology progress <- when nobody does; and
(3) people live in a vacuum <- when they have to ‘deal with life’.

I doubt that’s what you ACTUALLY think in entirity, but that’s how it may have come across to a few of us, hence @ne0 responding.

Sure, 3090 -> 4090 = great performance upgrade in terms of %. However, if at 4090 launch:

(I) you were happy with a 30 series card;
(II) didn't have the cash to spare (4090 is expensive);
(III) weren’t into gaming at the time; or
(IV) [insert one of unlimited rational reasons concerning life / circumstances]

you might have thought - “nah, not for me at this time!”. Or you might have not even been aware of it!

^^^ it’s worth nothing that nobody has had a scooby about how the 20, 30 or 40 series would turn out until launch details were released + reviews. The 3080 is still probably the best bang for buck card ever (still a good card). Meanwhile, the prevailing rumour in December was that the 50 cards were going to be most expensive ever by a very wide margin (5090 = $2,500 based on the spec sheet).

So now the 50 series comes out, 30 series peeps are excited to upgrade thinking “hmm, for [insert one of infinite reasonable reasons], I think I’d like to upgrade this time!” and you effectively swan in with your delorean and sports almanac ( :p ) saying “hey, you could have upgraded sooner and got a similar uplift in performance” and “the % increase is poor so the product isn’t good / worth it / disappointing - so there is nothing to be pleased about.” This disregards how people have arrived in that position in the first place, whether through chance or choice. Plus, even if people were considering per gen increase as part of their decision making, how could anyone ever know the difference between the 40 and 50 series at that time…? Not without an almanac.

How @ne0 described his upgrade path makes sense to me… but it doesn’t need to. It just needs to make sense to him.

IMHO the only thing that materially matters is whether the £ / frame is worse with the 50 series than before. It’s not. If anything as per the leaked benchmarks that @mrk shared the 5080 is better performance per £ than the 4090 (see the posts earlier today). But I expect it’ll end up broadly the same.

In closing, I think that the cross gen comparisons are interesting for seeing how tech is developing (more improvements = more exciting!) but it’s pointless for actual purchasing decisions, unless you actually know all uplifts in advance… which nobody does.

Put it this way, the 4090 - a great card - wouldn’t suddenly become a ‘worse card’ if the 30 series was better and there was a worse generational uplift. Instead, I’d rather suggest that it’s a good card on its own merits because of the decent performance / £ ratio.

It is disappointing though that the 5080 series won’t beat the 4090 - I’m with you on that.
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I pointed out the fact you could've had most of the generational uplift years ago before @ICDP and I say this as a 30 series owner looking to upgrade.

I'm not paying £2.5k on a 5090 (let's face it, nobody is getting an FE) so the 5080 would be the one. But it has the same amount of VRAM as the 4080, and it's looking like it's 15% better than a 4080 in a stiff breeze. That's not worth waiting 4 years for, it's just not.

Undoubtedly it's a better deal for 30 series owners, but people aren't happy with the 5090 at 30% better than the 4090... The 5080 is half that.

I'm looking at used 4080 Supers. Even at £800 it's a better deal than a new £1200 AIB (ain't nobody getting an FE), given the only thing you get with the 5080 is a derisory uplift in performance and MFG that I have no interest in. DLSS 4 is still coming to all RTX cards.
 
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SuperElectric said:
it's worse than I thought :o

It reminds me of my first MP3 player. Limited space meant using low bit rate lossy encoding, just to fit enough songs for it to make sense. The question at the time was 'How many songs can I fit without the sound becoming unenjoyable?' However, once I could afford a hard drive based player, I immediately went straight to 320kpbs. It didn't matter if I could hear the difference in an ABX test, on this specific album, with this codec, etc, etc. The point was that technology (and my budget) had moved on to the point that I didn't have to intentionally lower the quality of the music.

I feel we've lost the point of all this graphics tech. The direction so far has been about making the quality of the image better. Frame-gen is the opposite, it's 'new' MP3 when we already had FLAC and terabyte SD cards.
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This is just AI architecture, stripped down and tossed at the plebs like scraps to dogs. They have to be creative with software now to even justify releasing the 50 series. Especially as there hasn't been a node shrink this time around.
 
I just want a 5080 because it's decent price/performance in the current market, releases soon, and will be like 400% faster than my Vega 64, not including the "technology improvements" like mesh-shading, ray-tracing and going from 8GB to 16GB VRAM.
Of course I can see that it's not necessarily the greatest product but there's not a lot of options currently unless I consider second hand and get lucky.
7900XTX going for £900+ on OCUK still, and zero 4080s or 4090s.
Also seems like the games I normally play prefer Nvidia GPUs for whatever reason.

Kind of sad that I could have had similar performance 2 years ago for about the same (assuming I could have gotten them at MSRP), but hindsight is 20:20.
 
Bidley said:
I pointed out the fact you could've had most of the generational uplift years ago before @ICDP and I say this as a 30 series owner looking to upgrade.

I'm not paying £2.5k on a 5090 (let's face it, nobody is getting an FE) so the 5080 would be the one. But it has the same amount of VRAM as the 4080, and it's looking like it's 15% better than a 4080 in a stiff breeze. That's not worth waiting 4 years for, it's just not.

Undoubtedly it's a better deal for 30 series owners, but people aren't happy with the 5090 at 30% better than the 4090... The 5080 is half that.

I'm looking at used 4080 Supers. Even at £800 it's a better deal than a new £1200 AIB (ain't nobody getting an FE), given the only thing you get with the 5080 is a derisory uplift in performance and MFG that I have no interest in. DLSS 4 is still coming to all RTX cards.
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Theres some B Grade 4080/Supers in the clearnace section on the overclockers site if you didnt know
 
Bidley said:
I pointed out the fact you could've had most of the generational uplift years ago before @ICDP and I say this as a 30 series owner looking to upgrade.

I'm not paying £2.5k on a 5090 (let's face it, nobody is getting an FE) so the 5080 would be the one. But it has the same amount of VRAM as the 4080, and it's looking like it's 15% better than a 4080 in a stiff breeze. That's not worth waiting 4 years for, it's just not.

Undoubtedly it's a better deal for 30 series owners, but people aren't happy with the 5090 at 30% better than the 4090... The 5080 is half that.

I'm looking at used 4080 Supers. Even at £800 it's a better deal than a new £1200 AIB (ain't nobody getting an FE), given the only thing you get with the 5080 is a derisory uplift in performance and MFG that I have no interest in. DLSS 4 is still coming to all RTX cards.
Click to expand...

I find it very perplexing these 3000 series owners are so defensive.

Us, “it should have been better given previous gen uplifts”.

Them, “well it’s better for us 3000 owners than it is for 4000 owners”.

Yeah we know, “but it should have been better by about another 20% or so”. We are happy you are going to get a nice upgrade, but we wish it was even better. Why so defensive because we are pointing out that the 5000 series cards are not remotely as good as previous gen uplifts?
 
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Sedgey123 said:
Theres some B Grade 4080/Supers in the clearnace section on the overclockers site if you didnt know
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I did :)
ICDP said:
I find it very perplexing these 3000 series owners are so defensive.

Us, “it should have been better given previous gen uplifts”.

Them, “well it’s better for us 3000 owners than it is for 4000 owners”.

Yeah we know, “but it should have been better by about another 20% or so”. We are happy you are going to get a nice upgrade, but we wish it was even better. Why so defensive because we are pointing out that the 5000 series cards are not remotely as good as previous gen uplifts?
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I get it. I thought I was making big-brain moves doing my usual generation skip for the 40 series, expecting a whopper of a bump for the gen afterwards. "Ha" I thought to myself "why buy a £1600 4090 or that ridiculous £1200 4080 now when I can chill with my 3080 and get at least that 4090 performance in the 5080 in a couple of years".

Well that didn't go to plan now did it. The 4080 was overpriced but at least it was an actual 80-class card. I feel a bit cheated if I'm honest. If the 5080 had more VRAM it would have been much easier to swallow.

So yeah, 30 series owners are getting a nice upgrade... But only if you go for the 5090.

Makes you wonder if they'll do a refresh at all - if they couldn't make many gains in the initial release, where will they go? The entire range might be like the 4080 Super - 3% gains with a price correction.

Looking forward to reviews in a sick way.
 
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Oh, and I had a little session on Cyberpunk earlier with the new patch.

Transformer model DLSS on performance... I think it looks better? Granted I'm playing at 3440x1440 which isn't kind on that level of upscaling to begin with.

Ray Reconstruction is still unusable. Wake me up when they manage to stop the walls from moving.
 
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