Here we have Solar farms, solar panels, wind farms on the coast.. So why pay as much as a major city
Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)
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Here we have Solar farms, solar panels, wind farms on the coast.. So why pay as much as a major city
Soldato
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No, not what I mean.Here we have Solar farms, solar panels, wind farms on the coast.. So why pay as much as a major city
Going by their bar chart, we appear to be self sufficient for peak power needs with renewables on their own when averaged across the board, this obviously isn;t correct, something is wrong with their bar chart figures, else 'leccy' would be vastly cheaper and not governed by some ******** 'gas rate' set by importing gas.
Probably total installed capacity, renewable is highly volatile. For one solar doesn't work at night and when wind is low the actual power generated drops well below demand.
I think the energy sources are showing max output potential which, as you'll know, is not always available. Also, with areas like Scotland, there is insufficient connectors to move the excess energy from Scotland to England so other methods of generation are required. THis is being remedied with extra HVDC projects underway.
Talking about Scotland and Renewables Energy Production - the results for 2024 energy production/usage are out now and it shows an increasing amount of self sustainability of energy:
| Year | Produced (TWh) | Export (TWh) | Import (TWh) | Difference (TWh) |
| 2022 | 35.3 | 20.3 | 1.5 | 18.8 Excess |
| 2023 | 33.2 | 17.7 | 1.8 | 15.9 Excess |
| 2024 | 38.4 | 21.0 | 1.3 | 19.7 Excess |
| 3 Yr Average | 35.6 | 19.6 | 1.5 | 18.1 Excess |
Total capacity in Scotland is 17.6GW in 2024, a 14.3% increase in 1 year!!
SOURCE
Again, Scotland is a massive Net Exporter of Electric. The 18TWh "excess" is enough to power approx 1.65 million homes in the UK annually (outwith Scotland). Once the HDVC connectors get up and running, I would expect the Export to increase as they can keep the wind turbines etc running more due to being able to move the electricity around the country more.
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Soldato
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Aye i think the Ni Scotland is due to be upgraded also, which will be good for us.
Man of Honour
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Yet we have some of the most expensive energy and standing charges in the country!! We have three massive wind farms within 15 miles of us, cheaper energy they said. What a load of ********!! Loads more in the pipeline as well and the ones that are here are looking to be expanded yet again.
Yes but you live in a remote area so the SC is fair because of economies of scale... something something... At least that's the argument people put forward and they aren't technically wrong. Forget the fact that all this extra infrastructure, like the new Scotland/England pipelines, are being put in place to provide energy to other parts of the UK which incur cheaper costs. And you are paying for this
Before people say "it's not quite as straightforward as that", perhaps not but look at it this way - You deem it correct that places where the provision/maintenance of the infrastructure is, per-head, more expensive to provide yet don't have an issue that the extra infrastructure required to be provided/maintained in order to supply sufficient energy to "energy generation deserts" (London for example) is shared out amongst everyone in the UK equally. If it's fair to do that, why is it not fair for the whole of the UK to equally share the current costs by equalising the SC nationwide?
Why is an area that provides essentially nothing to the Nation via Elec generation getting the benefit of vastly cheaper use of said Electricity?
Largest Pumped Hydro Project in the UK planned for Scotland - https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...orage-hydro-project-at-loch-earba-16-04-2025/
"Located at Loch Earba, Gilkes Energy’s development aims to provide 1,800MW of installed capacity and an energy storage capability of 40,000MWh, surpassing existing projects in scale and storage capacity."
It should help lower wind farm curtailment as it will use excess energy to pump the water back up to the top reservoir ready for demand times.
"Located at Loch Earba, Gilkes Energy’s development aims to provide 1,800MW of installed capacity and an energy storage capability of 40,000MWh, surpassing existing projects in scale and storage capacity."
It should help lower wind farm curtailment as it will use excess energy to pump the water back up to the top reservoir ready for demand times.
Think thats worse than the EV tariff on EDF, EDF also seems to have a little softer conditions related to EV and eligibility.
(6.7p/kWh off peak 7 hours), rest of day 27.03p. I assume this is averaged out prices subject to regional price.
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I have a few concerns about the zonal system.
There is subsidies, including those payments mentioned by sols200, it would be a bit controversial, if those were left unchanged whilst localising the benefits of cheaper energy sources. This is especially the cases where the majority of people cant do a lot about their energy sources and are not part of the NIMBY problem.
I see the real issue as national grid problems, as I understand it, its still mostly in the same state as for the older power stations which have been shutting down for decades, with inadequate investment to basically force this Zonal system to come to life as a band aid.
Certain zones on that map have a clear disadvantage, GB5 being the obvious one which used to have local coal stations?, it only has a little bit of coastline, and also has the least wind in the country due to mostly being away from the coast and close to the south east. I think even with investment it would never be as healthy as zones like GB1 which could create a permanent post code lottery on energy costs, these costs affect both cost of living, and cost of business. So this will further distort the economical spread across the country.
Another issue is if this is brought in, I think alongside it there should be a kind of protection legislation brought in alongside, we have seen many times now that "market incentives" often dont work as is ideal, so there should be a legal obligation for all new renewable builds to be in the weakest areas, and then allow in the other areas again once its balanced. I also think there could be an averaging system used as the main benefit of this is it will give suppliers cheaper energy, but there could be a requirement to subsidise costs in more expensive areas from cheaper regions. So e.g. instead of GB1 being 5p kWh all day whilst GB5 is paying 35p all day (with no more cheap off peak either), you could perhaps do 20p in GB1 and 25p in GB5 so there is still an advantage but it isnt so distorted. If this isnt done, at the very least there should be protection that the worst zones can never exceed the cost of what they would have been under the national system, where the subsidy is either from government or the other zones. Although this would still likely trash tariffs like Agile in the worst zones with the protection only on SVR.
I do understand the benefits, although cant help but think there is better potential solutions out there, and this should not be used as an excuse to not fix the grid. In other sectors there is a lot of region subsidy to prevent massive distortions of costs, such as broadband and food.
There is subsidies, including those payments mentioned by sols200, it would be a bit controversial, if those were left unchanged whilst localising the benefits of cheaper energy sources. This is especially the cases where the majority of people cant do a lot about their energy sources and are not part of the NIMBY problem.
I see the real issue as national grid problems, as I understand it, its still mostly in the same state as for the older power stations which have been shutting down for decades, with inadequate investment to basically force this Zonal system to come to life as a band aid.
Certain zones on that map have a clear disadvantage, GB5 being the obvious one which used to have local coal stations?, it only has a little bit of coastline, and also has the least wind in the country due to mostly being away from the coast and close to the south east. I think even with investment it would never be as healthy as zones like GB1 which could create a permanent post code lottery on energy costs, these costs affect both cost of living, and cost of business. So this will further distort the economical spread across the country.
Another issue is if this is brought in, I think alongside it there should be a kind of protection legislation brought in alongside, we have seen many times now that "market incentives" often dont work as is ideal, so there should be a legal obligation for all new renewable builds to be in the weakest areas, and then allow in the other areas again once its balanced. I also think there could be an averaging system used as the main benefit of this is it will give suppliers cheaper energy, but there could be a requirement to subsidise costs in more expensive areas from cheaper regions. So e.g. instead of GB1 being 5p kWh all day whilst GB5 is paying 35p all day (with no more cheap off peak either), you could perhaps do 20p in GB1 and 25p in GB5 so there is still an advantage but it isnt so distorted. If this isnt done, at the very least there should be protection that the worst zones can never exceed the cost of what they would have been under the national system, where the subsidy is either from government or the other zones. Although this would still likely trash tariffs like Agile in the worst zones with the protection only on SVR.
I do understand the benefits, although cant help but think there is better potential solutions out there, and this should not be used as an excuse to not fix the grid. In other sectors there is a lot of region subsidy to prevent massive distortions of costs, such as broadband and food.
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Soldato
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Those who have switched from Octopus to EON Drive, how quickly did it happen. I see you have to sign up for the standard tariff and wait for them to move you once they see smart meter readings.
I am tempted to switch and leave gas and export with Octopus for now. Would switch export in the autumn when it basically disappears was my thought process.
Gas ideally I would leave with Octopus as I am on tracker and its cheap for now
I am tempted to switch and leave gas and export with Octopus for now. Would switch export in the autumn when it basically disappears was my thought process.
Gas ideally I would leave with Octopus as I am on tracker and its cheap for now
In the UK 98% of electricity generated is price based on the wholesale price of gas. Until this Policy changes, this will be the way, regardless of how many renewables are installed.
It's all foreign owned, the energy is "exported" and sold back to us on the global market. We could invent a cold fusion generator and we'd still be ripped off under the current regime.
All that happens now is the cheaper it gets to generate it, the more profit someone makes. All these wind and solar farms are pointless for the public, uses up loads of farmland and ruins rural views, but no actual benefit for the community.
In countries where energy/gas is dirt cheap it's state owned and part of the local economy.
All that happens now is the cheaper it gets to generate it, the more profit someone makes. All these wind and solar farms are pointless for the public, uses up loads of farmland and ruins rural views, but no actual benefit for the community.
In countries where energy/gas is dirt cheap it's state owned and part of the local economy.
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Soldato
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Yeah thats what they are supposed to do. IE if not on one of the approved import tariffs your supposed to be on SEG
I may hold off on both but interested to see how long people took to switch to Eon drive.
What I don't want to end up with is lost months of export, I am sure import will be fine.
If export is going to be a pain then best to do in the autumn when its tiny anyway.
Import was switched over within 7 days of initiating the switch for me, the few days on flex with Eon are more covered by the referral of £50.
Export you have ti fill out a form with all your details and they will then setup your separate export account and email you to ask for an initial reading which they send to Octopus. This took about 3 weeks for me, Octopus paid me 15p up until the final reading and now Eon will pay me from this reading and when you submit your next reading for payment. In theory you shouldn't miss out on anything. I also kept my gas fix with Octopus.
Soldato
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is it just me or is octoplus flux pretty rubbish these days? when i was on it - just after it 1st started before i got my EV it was a really compelling product, so much so for the summer months i didnt sign up to intelligent and i paid 15p a kwh to charge my car at work.
but looking last weekend as was looking to set my parents up, i thought it was pretty awful now........ where as octopus go and intelligent octopus go are still decent tarrifs.
to be honest even tho they do not have an EV i am thinking of just signing them up to octopus go and using that... i think it is better for them than flux will be
but looking last weekend as was looking to set my parents up, i thought it was pretty awful now........ where as octopus go and intelligent octopus go are still decent tarrifs.
to be honest even tho they do not have an EV i am thinking of just signing them up to octopus go and using that... i think it is better for them than flux will be
Normal flux is a terrible tariff now. They've totally destroyed it.
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Associate
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Yeah, now Octopus Flux is only any good if you have the capacity to force export in the peak window.
I've switched as a bit of an experiment and I am able to get a little more credit on Flux than Go, but only if I force export as much as possible during the evening and reduce my charging overnight.
I've managed a few days of around £6 export this month on Flux. On Go, those days would have been worth around £4.50-£5.10.
I've switched as a bit of an experiment and I am able to get a little more credit on Flux than Go, but only if I force export as much as possible during the evening and reduce my charging overnight.
I've managed a few days of around £6 export this month on Flux. On Go, those days would have been worth around £4.50-£5.10.
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I spent 2 days on standard tariff before i was moved to eon drive, i don't have export and kept my gas on tracker