Why aren't vegans eating the food they ask for?

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Johno please? said:
So instead of answering a genuine question with honesty, you dodge it and go on a pseudo intellectual diatribe, repeating yourself once again.

I gave you a link with industry standard practices (you could take 30seconds to look them up yourself) and described how most pigs live and how most are killed, thats not "extreme samples".

Your ethical compass isnt morally consistent, the fact you still cant see this proves literally everything ive said about your cognitive dissonance, its like trying to argue with a religious fundamentlist.
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It's revealing, though unfortunate, how this discussion has concluded – moving from attempts at explaining differing viewpoints to accusations and hostility from you - I thought you were supposed to be compassionate and more reasoned?

Persisting with accusations of "dodging" ignores the clear explanation already given – the premise (do you know what that means?) of your final question was rejected as it doesn't align with the ethical framework being discussed.

Refusing to answer a loaded question on its own terms isn't dishonesty; it's a refusal to be rhetorically trapped.

Furthermore, while acknowledging that serious welfare issues exist and practices like CO2 stunning for pigs are common and ethically debated, presenting these as the sole, unvarying reality across all farming (dismissing regulated standards, variations in practice, and higher-welfare systems entirely), remains a selective portrayal designed for emotional impact rather than a nuanced discussion of a complex industry.

Resorting to labels like "cognitive dissonance" or "religious fundamentalist" when faced with disagreement doesn't strengthen your argument; it merely attempts to pathologise views you oppose, which is the antithesis of productive dialogue.


Johno please? said:
Veganism is the rejecting the notion that animals are here to be used as commodities, resources and entertainment.

I care about the fact that non human animals dont have rights, and thats it, It has nothing to do with the climate or other so called justice issues,.... just so you know.
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Animals have rights.

The right to taste good, feed billions of people, and be eaten by predators.

Yes I'm being puerile as frankly there's no point in trying to have a mature conversation with a close minded person.

moon man said:
ah , i see all the corpse eaters feeling comforted now because other random corpse eaters on the internet say its ok so it is , thankfully there are still a few free thinking people out here and all throughout history or you would have a pair of shiny boots under the bed :p bet you still live near your mum too
last night , jacket spuds with chickpea curry ,very nice ,
sorry guys didn't abuse anything living , sure you will make up for me
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I expect more from you MM. :( Employing derogatory slurs like "corpse eaters" and launching into irrelevant personal insults ("live near your mum") instantly forfeits any claim to reasoned debate or free thinking. True free thought involves engaging respectfully with ideas that challenge one's own, not resorting to playground tactics and nonsensical historical references (shiny boots) when unable to form a coherent argument. This kind of tribalistic name-calling serves only to alienate and shut down conversation. Pretty disappointing to hear that from you.


Ultimately, both of your replies demonstrate to me a pattern often seen in discussions with vegans or other extremists: A reliance on emotional appeals, misrepresentation of opposing views, personal attacks, and an unwillingness to accept that reasonable people can arrive at different ethical conclusions based on different, but still considered, premises. It remains entirely possible, and consistent, to hold an ethical position that deeply values animal welfare, demands high standards, and accepts the consumption of animal products within that framework.

Disagreement stems from fundamentally different value systems, not from dishonesty or delusion on the part of those who don't subscribe to a specific ideology.
 
Just waiting for a reply from jono in their usual style or can they form a post in a reasoned manner.
It's taken time for society to get to this point and a minority wants to change it because of a lifestyle choice they have made. They have no idea on how to actually achieve their goals. We have in this world, populations that eat more meat due to their particular environment. We also have populations that are entirely vegetarian because of their religion. Animal welfare now is far better than it was probably only 100yrs ago, yes there maybe places were abuse happens but equally there are societies that have no access to our ways of slaughtering animals.
If vegans want to stop us eating meat they need to be aware that it will take time to get us onboard. If however we have a global catastrophic event that wipes out all animals, that were destined for food consumption, overnight then they would get their way but at a terrible cost in human lives.
 
moon man said:
Yep it's because I need tea break entertainment so I like to stir the pot a little before work and watch how you carnivores paint yourself into a corner mu .ha ha ha (evil laugh)
1st one is 11am btw , give me some entertaining material if you please
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I’ll be busy at 11am, so..

Being vegan is a huge missed steak.

Ba Dum Tss.
I’m here all week.
 
Freefaller said:
It's revealing, though unfortunate, how this discussion has concluded – moving from attempts at explaining differing viewpoints to accusations and hostility from you - I thought you were supposed to be compassionate and more reasoned?

Persisting with accusations of "dodging" ignores the clear explanation already given – the premise (do you know what that means?) of your final question was rejected as it doesn't align with the ethical framework being discussed.

Refusing to answer a loaded question on its own terms isn't dishonesty; it's a refusal to be rhetorically trapped.

Furthermore, while acknowledging that serious welfare issues exist and practices like CO2 stunning for pigs are common and ethically debated, presenting these as the sole, unvarying reality across all farming (dismissing regulated standards, variations in practice, and higher-welfare systems entirely), remains a selective portrayal designed for emotional impact rather than a nuanced discussion of a complex industry.

Resorting to labels like "cognitive dissonance" or "religious fundamentalist" when faced with disagreement doesn't strengthen your argument; it merely attempts to pathologise views you oppose, which is the antithesis of productive dialogue.




Animals have rights.

The right to taste good, feed billions of people, and be eaten by predators.

Yes I'm being puerile as frankly there's no point in trying to have a mature conversation with a close minded person.



I expect more from you MM. :( Employing derogatory slurs like "corpse eaters" and launching into irrelevant personal insults ("live near your mum") instantly forfeits any claim to reasoned debate or free thinking. True free thought involves engaging respectfully with ideas that challenge one's own, not resorting to playground tactics and nonsensical historical references (shiny boots) when unable to form a coherent argument. This kind of tribalistic name-calling serves only to alienate and shut down conversation. Pretty disappointing to hear that from you.


Ultimately, both of your replies demonstrate to me a pattern often seen in discussions with vegans or other extremists: A reliance on emotional appeals, misrepresentation of opposing views, personal attacks, and an unwillingness to accept that reasonable people can arrive at different ethical conclusions based on different, but still considered, premises. It remains entirely possible, and consistent, to hold an ethical position that deeply values animal welfare, demands high standards, and accepts the consumption of animal products within that framework.

Disagreement stems from fundamentally different value systems, not from dishonesty or delusion on the part of those who don't subscribe to a specific ideology.
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Now if jono and sadly MM could engage like that it would make great reading and debating. Again well done.
 
My better half has been vegan for ~5 years, having previously been a veggie, the full price "vegan tax" prices for some products are eye-watering these days especially!
 
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Johno please? said:
Theres also a simple test here, would you accept that same treatment in that "high welfare" slaughterhouse for humans?

If the answer is no, which I expect it will be, im going to ask you the morally relevant difference between humans and pigs which justifies doing it to them but not humans.
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you are entitled to have that view for yourself. as you apparently hold the view that a human is an animal and no more or no less worthy of life than a mouse I assume you are also against any animal testing with drugs.

if you are then again that is fair enough it'd your view you do you etc

if not however then you DO see animals different to people and you are on the same scale as 99% of the population just at a different point.

The challenge then however becomes where you are a guardian of someone else ie a child.

would you refuse a child potentially life saving treatment if it had been tested on animals or needed transgenics or something, .
TLDR

I like animals but they different to humans and I like to think outside of sound bites even zealots like Morrissey would backtrack itlf it came down to saving a human life

(if you are gonna take it to the extreme one way I am just taking it the other)

Note I am not having a pop or ridiculing you and genuinely just chatting.
as an interesting thought experiment, I do wonder as time goes on and the planet gets more and more in a mess I wonder if there will genuinely become some form of human corpse reclamation where once you die your body is recycled for food and water

it seems abhorrent now but only because society says so. there is no real reason why we're could not eat dead people , things like CJD not withstanding
 
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bigmike20vt said:
you are entitled to have that view for yourself. as you apparently hold the view that a human is an animal and no more or no less worthy of life than a mouse I assume you are also against any animal testing with drugs.

if you are then again that is fair enough it'd your view you do you etc

if not however then you DO see animals different to people and you are on the same scale as 99% of the population just at a different point.

The challenge then however becomes where you are a guardian of someone else ie a child.

would you refuse a child potentially life saving treatment if it had been tested on animals or needed transgenics or something, .
TLDR

I like animals but they different to humans and I like to think outside of sound bites even zealots like Morrissey would backtrack itlf it came down to saving a human life

(if you are gonna take it to the extreme one way I am just taking it the other)

Note I am not having a pop or ridiculing you and genuinely just chatting.
as an interesting thought experiment, I do wonder as time goes on and the planet gets more and more in a mess I wonder if there will genuinely become some form of human corpse reclamation where once you die your body is recycled for food and water

it seems abhorrent now but only because society says so. there is no real reason why we're could not eat dead people , things like CJD not withstanding
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Good points and I would point them to a film which they may or not know about called "Soylent Green" with Charlton Heston. Science fiction I know but what was fiction somehow becomes fact.
 
Well just enjoying my hummus and salad wholemeal wrap with olives and sun dried tomatoes , expected more but eating dead people, that's a start, what about roadkill, I mean some people do
 
moon man said:
Well just enjoying my hummus and salad wholemeal wrap with olives and sun dried tomatoes , expected more but eating dead people, that's a start, what about roadkill, I mean some people do
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That actually sounds really good, except that I don't eat olives. Or people. Or roadkill.

Might make myself one of those fancy vegan lunches today. I actually eat a lot of this stuff but never really thought about the fact it's vegan.

Maybe I should try this vegan lark. I'm an insufferable **** on the best of days, imagine if I became a vegan, I'd create a singularity. Johnno and myself standing side by side, crying like little bitches because pigs are dying. It'd be grand. I can already feel a Netflix special coming.
 
UTmaniac said:
My better half has been vegan for ~5 years, having previously been a veggie, the full price "vegan tax" prices for some products are eye-watering these days especially!
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I try and do the accidentally vegan stuff, I do have processed say at a BBQ , my daughter introduced me to nutritional yeast as a cheese sprinkle alternative ( my granddaughter has a dairy allergy) Tesco have a few deals on the unhealthy stuff
 
moon man said:
Well just enjoying my hummus and salad wholemeal wrap with olives and sun dried tomatoes , expected more but eating dead people, that's a start, what about roadkill, I mean some people do
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Your snack sounds delicious, people eat what is suited to their culture and environment. Look at what they dish up in 'celebrity get me out of here'.
 
Diddums said:
That actually sounds really good, except that I don't eat olives. Or people. Or roadkill.

Might make myself one of those fancy vegan lunches today. I actually eat a lot of this stuff but never really thought about the fact it's vegan.

Maybe I should try this vegan lark. I'm an insufferable **** on the best of days, imagine if I became a vegan, I'd create a singularity. Johnno and myself standing side by side, crying like little bitches because pigs are dying. It'd be grand. I can already feel a Netflix special coming.
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I do go a bit overboard on hummus, I love the stuff can be home made , I have the red pepper stuff today though yummy
 
moon man said:
I do go a bit overboard on hummus, I love the stuff can be home made , I have the red pepper stuff today though yummy
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I was told recently that my cholesterol is far too high so I'm eating tons of healthy stuff at the moment and homous is lovely. Dammit now I want homous and avo on toast for lunch.
 
moon man said:
corpse eaters
random corpse eaters on the internet
you would have a pair of shiny boots under the bed
bet you still live near your mum
you choose to abuse your bodies as well as animals
Sorry noob but I have seen the drivel you post
English is obviously not your first language
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This is pure living up to a stereotype if ever I've seen it. You sound like a kid losing in call of duty on the PlayStation.

Making fun of somebody because English is their 2nd language? Do you have a second language? If so, can you read, write and speak it as well as they can with English?
It's not easy communicating in a second language fluently, alongside people who speak it as their first language.
 
moon man said:
Well just enjoying my hummus and salad wholemeal wrap with olives and sun dried tomatoes , expected more but eating dead people, that's a start, what about roadkill, I mean some people do
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I enjoy those snacks too. Grew up on the stuff (joys of Mediterranean upbringing!). You have good taste.
 
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