Why aren't vegans eating the food they ask for?

[tonys]

it will contain trace amounts of insects, thats probably most of the protein content accounted for.

go to any farm and look how many earwigs and other insects are around during a harvest.

there's no possible way to go from grain to flour and remove every single tiny insect, unless your doing it by hand.

I've helped clean the grain silos at Wellingborough flour mill, you would not believe what gets into those silos. Anyone eat Warburtons?

 

[moon man]

Ok it tastes better than it looks , I was part way through construction here
Heinz vegan mayo in the background

 

[Gray2233]

Ok it tastes better than it looks , I was part way through construction here
Heinz vegan mayo in the background

Looks good to me tbh.

Mind you, when I do make anything "vegan" it always looks quite bad par chickpea soup. I really enjoy making mixed bean chilli (extra hot) but as good as it tastes to me it looks like something you'd find in a dodgy toilet.

 

[sprite1275]

After starting a diet this week I'm sick of salad already

 

[adidan]

Ok it tastes better than it looks , I was part way through construction here
Heinz vegan mayo in the background

Looks nice to me, then again most of our meals don't have meat in them so I'm not immediately revulsed by food that actually has colour

 

[tonys]

A diddums bashing vegans thread, I am so shocked followed by a bunch of middle aged men commenting on their own habits to prove a point that ultimately won't matter when the universe unravels

Let me guess, lots of posts saying how vegans are hurting themselves etc etc and its not natural etc etc, loads of righties saying we need meat and its all ethical when it isn't etc etc, some guy commenting plants have rights too and a load of old usual recycled 'arguments' and 'points made' .

OCUK forum, very predictable

One day, we can discuss facts, but as long as we live in world where you think your opinion is as valid as a fact researched and verified by experts (an expert is a person who's dedicated their entire life to 1 singular subject as much as humanly possible, day in, day out)...we are not going to get anywhere.

Lets demo 2 facts and someone will argue with it:

1) Brexit sucked (fact, proven)
2) Reform will destroy the UK and democracy as we know it and have openly said they'll end the NHS for insurance based healthcare.

Now, fact wise, thats a fact, end of - someone will argue with it to push their opinion as trying to be equally valid when its not.

We don't have a facts problem in society, we have an opinion / political problem and everyone thinking they are equal to experts, often driven by their emotions problem.

How we as a society start to make decisions based on facts and logic and sensible processes - I have no idea, I'm not an expert, but its clear to see where facts become immediately nullified and twisted to uselessness.....perhaps because I was scientifically trained to see that more easily, however I dont have a solution on how to change peoples minds when their opinions are blatantly not reality.

Ok, I'll answer you.
The start of the thread was to enquire why vegan processed food was in the reduced section. Everyone has there own opinions and it goes from there. This sort of debate, like politics can go round in circles indefinitely. Instead of using reasonable arguments some vegans have tried to use shock tactics and emotive words to get their point across. The other side find this way of brow beating a form of contest so they start to ridicule those people. Then you have the ones that have direct knowledge of what veganism is. You brining politics into the mix was wrong as it's not relevant to the thread.
I have direct personal knowledge of the issue and have had the preaching from my daughter and her partner but once they realised it wouldn't make a difference. That's what the problem is with the likes of jono, they will not take no for an answer. I have no problem with anyone's opinion so long as they don't try and force it on me.
The vegan food that I have had at my daughters and sometimes when I'm out for a meal has been very tasty so that's not the problem.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

I could easily turn vegan if I had my own chef who just made me banging food everyday. At work we have a vegan day once a fortnight where vegan caterers come in and make lunch for everyone and the food is stupidly good, easily high end restaurant quality. I could easily live on that everyday.

Then you get home, tired and lazy and slap a pukka pie in the oven and realise you’re never going to be vegan in a million years, not because you love meat but because you’re a lazy ***** who can’t be arsed with the hassle of having to put actual effort in order to eat something tasty

 

[tonys]

Genuine answer:

No sources of food from any form of creature that is not a plant, in short, all fauna is not food to a strict vegan. I.e. mammals, insects, fish, etc

I'm wondering if anyone has any genuine answers to my first post in this thread - so far the typical folk of OCUK have gone down the 'I'm refusing to answer your points or questions so im just going to attack you instead' route - basic political tactic when well thought well reasoned factual based responses are not forthcoming, I understand that, just a shame really, I was rather hoping someone would reply with some quality new information based on reality that I may have missed.

Slight difference of opinion about a strict vegan, they will not have any animal flesh or product from animal exploitation(like leather shoes and belts) only plant based products.

 

[tonys]

it will contain trace amounts of insects, thats probably most of the protein content accounted for.

go to any farm and look how many earwigs and other insects are around during a harvest.

there's no possible way to go from grain to flour and remove every single tiny insect, unless your doing it all by hand.

There is as the grain is passed through sieve after sieve. Yes you will get some particles of insect matter but they will be microscopic.

 

[tonys]

Ok it tastes better than it looks , I was part way through construction here
Heinz vegan mayo in the background

I don't mind the rest but mayo, no way

 

[Gray2233]

I have direct personal knowledge of the issue and have had the preaching from my daughter and her partner but once they realised it wouldn't make a difference.

I think this is something those who promote veganism should really take notice of.

There's a lot of people who are simply never, ever going to go "full vegan" -- that's obvious to anyone sane. That said, by approaching the topic in a friendly and open manner you might convince many to reduce their meat intake to a degree. Perhaps not even due to a particular care for animal welfare, simply showing people that you can make cheap and tasty meat free meals might result in people choosing those options more often. It's this black and white extremism and aggressive attitudes from many (and there's prime examples of this in this very thread) that are likely to make people turn off, if not do the opposite of what is being demanded out of spite as human nature is often wont to do.

From my perspective as someone that has actively reduced their animal product intake, this is a best case scenario for many (especially current) generations of people. Surely that should be considered a win by those who genuinely want things to change? You can't force things overnight, you wont gain sympathy by being aggressive and over the top. Look at Just Stop Oil, they messed up so badly there's many (including political activists not affiliated with them) that think they were a psyop funded by big oil companies. Those looking for genuine change realise that people are not black and white entities, they approach them accordingly and try to effect change in a healthy manner by presenting solid data and good ideas that might benefit said people.

Frankly, some of the vegans I've come across give me the impression they're looking for attention and a soap box more than anything else.

 

[tonys]

I think this is something those who promote veganism should really take notice of.

There's a lot of people who are simply never, ever going to go "full vegan" -- that's obvious to anyone sane. That said, by approaching the topic in a friendly and open manner you might convince many to reduce their meat intake to a degree. Perhaps not even due to a particular care for animal welfare, simply showing people that you can make cheap and tasty meat free meals might result in people choosing those options more often. It's this black and white extremism and aggressive attitudes from many (and there's prime examples of this in this very thread) that are likely to make people turn off, if not do the opposite of what is being demanded out of spite as human nature is often wont to do.

From my perspective as someone that has actively reduced their animal product intake, this is a best case scenario for many (especially current) generations of people. Surely that should be considered a win by those who genuinely want things to change? You can't force things overnight, you wont gain sympathy by being aggressive and over the top. Look at Just Stop Oil, they messed up so badly there's many (including political activists not affiliated with them) who think they were a psyop funded by big oil companies. Those looking for genuine change realise that people are not black and white entities, they approach them accordingly and try to effect change in a healthy manner by presenting solid data and good ideas that might benefit said people.

Frankly, some of the vegans I've come across give me the impression they're looking for attention and a soap box more than anything else.

Well done, I'm getting old and no longer eat as much as I used to. Today I have had 1 slice of bacon and a few small slices of cheese.
That sounds like I'm a really strict diet, I ment animal produce.

 

[Gray2233]

Well done, I'm getting old and no longer eat as much as I used to. Today I have had 1 slice of bacon and a few small slices of cheese.
That sounds like I'm a really strict diet, I ment animal produce.

My diet is pretty on point at the moment, but it's related to a workout regime with high protein intake.

I eat a lot of chicken, I'll have fatty fish at least twice a week (mackerel or salmon usually), some form of very lean beef once a week (either thin cut steak or mince I'll use for home made burgers or whatever). That leaves at least one day where I go full veggie if not vegan, sometimes two depending on how I plan the week out.

Everyone has a diet that will work for them if aiming to be healthy, it doesn't need to be vegan and it doesn't need to be perfect, but it does need to be something you as an individual can sustain imo. It's pointless if you sicken yourself with things you don't like, you'll only end up relapsing and back at square one if not worse. That's where I think vegans have an avenue, and to be fair some absolutely do go the route of teaching people to make simple/tasty healthy meals, but they're very often overshadowed by the militant types which as mentioned earlier ultimately makes people avoid anything vegan related even if it's to their own detriment.

 

[Johno please?]

You can always avoid it, by choosing not to accept drugs or treatment that have exploited animals via testing.

The fact you choose to tolerate this particular element of it just highlights that your veganism is still on the same scale of convenience really, just at a different point to others. You'll take the easy wins of eating plants etc. but when the chips are down, you don't actually care as much as you try to portray that you do.

I wouldnt expect someone to die over not accepting drugs, thats jehovahs witness level of reason, like I said, its not a vegan world and we can't avoid the fact there is animal exploitation in the pharma industry, but we can stop using animals for food and clothing, entertainment quite easily.

If when you go to the hospital they say do you want the "vegan drugs" obviously id say yes, this isnt going to be an option though is it.

...you did say about animals being bludgeoned and gassed

uh yea..., because they are?

google, "piglet thumping".

 

[tonys]

My diet is pretty on point at the moment, but it's related to a workout regime with high protein intake.

I eat a lot of chicken, I'll have fatty fish at least twice a week (mackerel or salmon usually), some form of very lean beef once a week (either thin cut steak or mince I'll use for home made burgers or whatever). That leaves at least one day where I go full veggie if not vegan, sometimes two depending on how I plan the week out.

Everyone has a diet that will work for them if aiming to be healthy, it doesn't need to be vegan and it doesn't need to be perfect, but it does need to be something you as an individual can sustain imo. It's pointless if you sicken yourself with things you don't like, you'll only end up relapsing and back at square one if not worse. That's where I think vegans have an avenue, and to be fair some absolutely do go the route of teaching people to make simple/tasty healthy meals, but they're very often overshadowed by the militant types which as mentioned earlier ultimately makes people avoid anything vegan related even if it's to their own detriment.

I don't diet even though with the conditions I have had passed down from my mum and dad I certainly should. As someone on here said that most, but not all, meat related diets are pretty much 75 -95% veggie or vegan.

 

[Diddums]

google, "piglet thumping".

We don't want to. Not sure how you're still not able to comprehend this.

 

[tonys]

I wouldnt expect someone to die over not accepting drugs, thats jehovahs witness level of reason, like I said, its not a vegan world and we can't avoid the fact there is animal exploitation in the pharma industry, but we can stop using animals for food and clothing, entertainment quite easily.

If when you go to the hospital they say do you want the "vegan drugs" obviously id say yes, this isnt going to be an option though is it.



uh yea..., because they are?

google, "piglet thumping".

If they are true vegans they should hold on to their principles and refuse any animal exploited drug or procedure. That is the very core of their belief. Buddhists have a similar outlook on not harming animals but do you see them being criticised? No because they use a softly, softly approach.
So because we are ok with it we would be murderers by association. I also don't think you can murder an animal, you can slaughter them because they are not classed as human.

 

[Kenai]

I wouldnt expect someone to die over not accepting drugs

Exactly, so it's just a sliding scale of 'hypocrisy' that you're at a slightly different place on to other people.

Other people will be comfortable with animals being used for food, just as you are comfortable with them being used to test medicines if those medicines benefit you.

You're in no position to lecture people the way you do.

 

[krooton]

Exactly, so it's just a sliding scale of 'hypocrisy' that you're at a slightly different place on to other people.

Other people will be comfortable with animals being used for food, just as you are comfortable with them being used to test medicines if those medicines benefit you.

You're in no position to lecture people the way you do.

What I've never understood is why any real vegan would buy food from a non-vegan place that happens to have vegan options.

Like KFC having their vegan burger, surely any vegan would be boycotting KFC entirely?

 

[Scuzi]

What I've never understood is why any real vegan would buy food from a non-vegan place that happens to have vegan options.

Like KFC having their vegan burger, surely any vegan would be boycotting KFC entirely?

It's really easy to understand. People who want to eat a KFC vegan burger don't care. It's not a binary standard, there is a whole spectrum of standards practised by individuals. You know, like pretty much everything else in life.