Sycamore Gap tree at Hadrian's Wall 'felled overnight'

So he specifically mentioned a tree but was talking about a wall?

:cry:

He didn't say the wall wasn't a factor. Anyway, tie yourself in whatever knots you want. Other people seem able to follow the exchange and I still can't see why you think it's worth arguing about after the other person has explained what they mean.
 
[ so 73% of people didn't want colston removed or thought it was removed inappropriately - "justice seen to be done" ?
Do you approve or disapprove of protesters in Bristol pulling down the statue of Edward Colston?

and look at the age bias on that opinion from the populist social media clan.
]

How about you demonstrate the claim you made about the judge being the reason people were found not guilty, which is what I challenged?

Random surveys aside, I live in Bristol and for years people had been campaigning to get the statue moved (or at least a plaque added giving information about Colston) but there was solid resistance from the establishment. The situation was weird because a lot of older people had been brought up to venerate Colston as a great benefactor of the city (I had relatives who were named after him) whereas younger people were fully aware that he made that money from slavery.

Edward Colston was a 17th-century British slave trader who played a key role in the Royal African Company, which had a monopoly on the transatlantic slave trade for a time. He actively participated in the forced transportation of over 84,000 enslaved Africans, with a significant number dying during the voyage. Colston's legacy is complex, as he also left a substantial fortune to charities after his death, leading to a long-standing debate about his role as both a slave trader and a philanthropist.

Attitudes to the statue were also a bit peculiar because some people seemed to think it was historical and had been there since the 1600s, whereas it was actually erected in 1895 long after Britain had deemed trading in slaves to be unacceptable.
 
Yeah - I don't really get that at all..

Detained for their own safety? From whom or what is threatening their safety...

Not questioning the verdict but just seemed odd to detain them for another 2 months till sentencing.

There are serious concerns that if released they might run with scissors or spontaneously combust trying to light their own farts.
 
How about you demonstrate the claim you made about the judge being the reason people were found not guilty, which is what I challenged?
did you read what I posted from trial ... if you think their personal conviction outweighs the criminal damage ?
seemed carte-blanche for a gullible woke jury - in the face of common opinion.

which does somewhat summarize the tree escapade - social media has taken over - innate vandalism yes, but not a capital offense.
 
It would seem so.

The prosecution and defence put forward their cases. The judge explains to the jury a key point of law/argument they should consider when making their decision (if you think X has been proven/not proven it follows that the defendants are guilty/not guilty). As I understand it an English Jury is picked at random (not for being woke) and does not actually need to explain their verdict.

Apparently that translates as the "judge recommended the jury to let them off" and not just any jury, but "a gullible woke jury - in the face of common opinion."
 
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did you read what I posted from trial ... if you think their personal conviction outweighs the criminal damage ?
seemed carte-blanche for a gullible woke jury - in the face of common opinion.

which does somewhat summarize the tree escapade - social media has taken over - innate vandalism yes, but not a capital offense.
The Judge did his job.

The prosecution and the defence put forward their cases.
The Judge clarified for the jury what was required for a guilty verdict and what was required for a not guilty verdict if the jury used went with the very specific defence as laid down by the defendants.

This isn't "work", it isn't the judge instructing the jury to give a verdict (the judge cannot, something that was settled centuries ago when a judge held a jury in jail to try and force them to give a guilty verdict), this is the judge advising a random (not "woke") group of 12 normal people, most of whom probably have only ever experienced legal stuff with regards to buying/selling a house or dealing with a will, what a potentially complicated bit of law meant in terms the jury could understand.

The Jury, who as has been said, were chosen at random from the available pool of potential jurors in the area having listened to the prosecution, then listened to the defence gave a verdict.

The law is complex, the Judge has a duty to explain, in impartial terms what certain things mean, in a way a jury of average people can understand, it is one of the biggest parts of a Judge's job, to mediate proceedings, rule on what can and cannot be admitted, give a sentence if a guilty verdict is found, and to explain to absolute legal novices what exceptionally complicated/specialist bits of law might mean based on previous cases and do so in the simplest terms possible..

As a very simple example.
If I break a car window I am doing criminal damage.
However there are long established legal defences to that, for instance if I break the window to get a small child out of a car that has been left in the sun and is dangerously hot I am almost certainly clear e, even just doing so to aid a pet animal is IIRC enough in law.
There are massive numbers of these often very specific defences, as we've got something like 1000 years of case law and precedent.
 
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In my opinion they should face huge fines for damages.

Let's say that tree generates X per year for the owners of the site.

They should be fined for damages to that end.


Of course their lives are basically screwed doing something like this. People really hate this sort of thing. And their names and faces are out. So. They'll never escape it.
 
The tree it and more importantly the wall they damaged are icons. Rather than prison which you and I have to pay for, I’d have them carry out dry stone walling, restoring an area to a natural habitat and restoring gardens for the elderly/inferm. We have an area of waste scrubland by us that needs turning into a wild life refuge. They can start on that.
 
Not sure if to follow the handbags in this thread or the case...:D

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he said, she said, show me, prove it

Tree planting and litter clearing for 3 years would imo be a more suitable sentence then taking spaces reserved for those that use hurty words..
 
[ so 73% of people didn't want colston removed or thought it was removed inappropriately - "justice seen to be done" ?
Do you approve or disapprove of protesters in Bristol pulling down the statue of Edward Colston?

and look at the age bias on that opinion from the populist social media clan.
]

I don’t think you are reading that poll correctly, or know the people of Bristol very well, particularly those under 80 years old.

Democracy and local politics was too corrupt to do it legally, despite Countering Colston having the correct process to bring it down legally, it instead had to be done the way it was, and based on this, the judge agreed it was legal to bring it down.
 
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They should plant another tree in its place and make the perpetrators pay the bill. simples
 
Chop them right off - preferably using a blunt, rusty knife. It's the only way !!

Village stocks should never have been abolished - would be ideal now.
 
Replacing a 200 year old tree worth thousands, with a sapling worth £10? Yeah I don't think that's a fair trade.
[/QUOTE]
Who mentioned a sapling? Mature tree transplants are common
 
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