General Headphone Audio

Oooo new Beyerdynamic... this time a stellar driver update with DT 990 Pro X.

GadgetryTech Youtube video below. I won't spoilt it too much but it does tame that famous treble. Looks like Beyer are using those TYGR/Amiron discs to tame it. Interesting.

DT 880, or TYGR Pro X versions next please.

 
Sent the MMX 330 pro back could not get on with how they sat on my head and the cable was getting annoying, which is a shame as I had the DT770 for years without issue.

Ordered the Maxwells to see what they are like as fancied a wireless headset this time and never had planars.
 
That Gremlin does look rather cool, though open shelled devices always make me wince because how much dust settles on the innards and requires cleaning :o

I'm done buying personal amps/dacs now, completely satisfied with what the Luxsin X9's capabilities in combo with the A80. The K13 R2R is the only potential DAC/Hp amp that could maybe sway me back to R2R but it all boils down to if it has the correct ports at the back as well as what it looks like both from interface and the unit itself which we just don't know yet.

Roll on the arrival of the i5 in August and I can decide if I will keep them or shift them with no loss in cost, maybe even a small profit for my efforts.
 
mrk said:
That Gremlin does look rather cool, though open shelled devices always make me wince because how much dust settles on the innards and requires cleaning :o

I'm done buying personal amps/dacs now, completely satisfied with what the Luxsin X9's capabilities in combo with the A80. The K13 R2R is the only potential DAC/Hp amp that could maybe sway me back to R2R but it all boils down to if it has the correct ports at the back as well as what it looks like both from interface and the unit itself which we just don't know yet.

Roll on the arrival of the i5 in August and I can decide if I will keep them or shift them with no loss in cost, maybe even a small profit for my efforts.
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I wish the Gremlin was a bit more 'refined'. The transistor going brown, the smell of it etc. It is all very hobbyist. It's like my MiSTer although I love that thing. Unfortunately there just isn't anything like it on the market; $120 for a complete balanced tube amp. However like the PC38X, the HD 650 and other choices it has really cemented a listening preference as part of my audio journey. Just a question of how long it lasts!

Bit like yourself, but for different reasons, I'm currently burnt out on buying more DAC/AMPs. I've realised I have now bought 6 this year which is ridiculous. Not even dongle DACs, but full blown desktop set-ups. 5 if you regard the iFi as an all-in-one unit. That's a lot of lost time to research and associated tasks. I have sold 3 to offset that crazyness (2 x Fiio's and the SB GC7) and refine my audio set-up, but it does need to stop. Very interested in the K13 R2R however I suspect it'll have to replace something in my line-up and no matter how good the R2R DAC is it'll still be very much a solid state AMP. But I'm not rulling it out, or maybe the K15 at some point. Reducing boxes and refining my interfaces will always be an option.

For the remainder of this year I only really want to consider a headphone if it's right, but even then I need to try and remember the 'less is more' mantra. I will watch/read the i5 reviews with interest though.
 
Timber said:
I wish the Gremlin was a bit more 'refined'. The transistor going brown, the smell of it etc. It is all very hobbyist. It's like my MiSTer although I love that thing. Unfortunately there just isn't anything like it on the market; $120 for a complete balanced tube amp. However like the PC38X, the HD 650 and other choices it has really cemented a listening preference as part of my audio journey. Just a question of how long it lasts!

Bit like yourself, but for different reasons, I'm currently burnt out on buying more DAC/AMPs. I've realised I have now bought 6 this year which is ridiculous. Not even dongle DACs, but full blown desktop set-ups. 5 if you regard the iFi as an all-in-one unit. That's a lot of lost time to research and associated tasks. I have sold 3 to offset that crazyness (2 x Fiio's and the SB GC7) and refine my audio set-up, but it does need to stop. Very interested in the K13 R2R however I suspect it'll have to replace something in my line-up and no matter how good the R2R DAC is it'll still be very much a solid state AMP. But I'm not rulling it out, or maybe the K15 at some point. Reducing boxes and refining my interfaces will always be an option.

For the remainder of this year I only really want to consider a headphone if it's right, but even then I need to try and remember the 'less is more' mantra. I will watch/read the i5 reviews with interest though.
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It's only just turned June and you bought 6 ?!

TECHNICALLY I have bought 3 but one of those is a £4 dongle one I keep in my travel kit for an emergency. Look into the Musical Fidelity X-Can v3 or newer, get it used. It's a tube amp so I doubt it will sound that much different in terms of tech as an amp besides fewer input methods. Plus they are all built to survive a nuclear blast and complete opposite of the homebrew DIY feel of the Gremlin.

One thing I can't get away from with my X-Can is at low volume, there is an imbalance to the volume L/R level due to the analgoue pot, but turning it up soon fixes that.
 
Raymond Lin said:
It's only just turned June and you bought 6 ?!

TECHNICALLY I have bought 3 but one of those is a £4 dongle one I keep in my travel kit for an emergency. Look into the Musical Fidelity X-Can v3 or newer, get it used. It's a tube amp so I doubt it will sound that much different in terms of tech as an amp besides fewer input methods. Plus they are all built to survive a nuclear blast and complete opposite of the homebrew DIY feel of the Gremlin.

One thing I can't get away from with my X-Can is at low volume, there is an imbalance to the volume L/R level due to the analgoue pot, but turning it up soon fixes that.
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I think it sounds worse than it, but short version; iFi Zen Signature HD 6XX stack in Jan from eBay for £265 basically new condition. Sold the GC7 and replaced that with the Fosi Audio K7 on the PS5 Pro. Sold both the Fiio K11 & K5 Pro and replaced with the Fiio K7 BT. But then the recent Topping D10 for £75 and the Gremlin joined the party.

Problem is the two PC setup which means I always need at least two DACs. PS5 makes it three. But to be fair all the boxes are doing something and have a purpose whether it's DAC duties, mic input, tube sound, RCA outputs for speakers, RCA inputs, or converting USB to Optical. Technically the iFi stack is the luxury atm, but I'm loathed to get rid of it given how well it works with the HD 6xO.

Regarding the analog volume imbalance I get that in the iFi stack and it's irritating. I'm often at 8 to 9 o'clock and anything louder hurts. So I have to run the DAC in variable mode and reduce the volume on that. Which is iFi's recommendation beyond adjusting the PC, or media player volume (which hurts UDB bandwidth). So in that sense I prefer digital volume wheels like the two K7s have.
 
Timber said:
I wish the Gremlin was a bit more 'refined'. The transistor going brown, the smell of it etc. It is all very hobbyist. It's like my MiSTer although I love that thing. Unfortunately there just isn't anything like it on the market; $120 for a complete balanced tube amp. However like the PC38X, the HD 650 and other choices it has really cemented a listening preference as part of my audio journey. Just a question of how long it lasts!

Bit like yourself, but for different reasons, I'm currently burnt out on buying more DAC/AMPs. I've realised I have now bought 6 this year which is ridiculous. Not even dongle DACs, but full blown desktop set-ups. 5 if you regard the iFi as an all-in-one unit. That's a lot of lost time to research and associated tasks. I have sold 3 to offset that crazyness (2 x Fiio's and the SB GC7) and refine my audio set-up, but it does need to stop. Very interested in the K13 R2R however I suspect it'll have to replace something in my line-up and no matter how good the R2R DAC is it'll still be very much a solid state AMP. But I'm not rulling it out, or maybe the K15 at some point. Reducing boxes and refining my interfaces will always be an option.

For the remainder of this year I only really want to consider a headphone if it's right, but even then I need to try and remember the 'less is more' mantra. I will watch/read the i5 reviews with interest though.
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6? Could you not have just bought one more expensive higher class unit and been done with it all?
 
Angst said:
6? Could you not have just bought one more expensive higher class unit and been done with it all?
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I say why in the reply above, but basically have lots of inputs and devices. A complex setup. And things like the Tube Amp are single use devices, i.e. it can't be used for my speakers.

If it was a single PC with no PS5/Switch, MiSTer or TV requirements for optical it might be simpler with 1 DAC. Although I'm sure I could simplify. But never to one box.
 
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Angst said:
Fair, there are quite a lot of options with multiple optical inputs and outputs as well as USB, coax etc so you could probably condense a few things at least.
Something like this would let 2 pc's share a single usb dac as well aslong as they are close I guess https://www.amazon.co.uk/Selector-S...ext&ref_=fplfs&smid=A31Z53M115D5R7&gQT=1&th=1
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I did try a USB switcher, introduced noise on the USB DAC/AMPs. The very first thing I did but unfortunately even just running it for mouse and keyboard introduced a small noise when silent, i.e. scrolling YouTube.

After that decided to keep the DAC/AMPs, kb&m separate. At first running 2 pairs of RCAs inputs to the edifier speakers. But I've since managed to reduce that to one either using the RCA outputs from the iFi Can, or recently adding the Topping D10 bal. It cost £75 but is driving the Gremlin and sound out to the K7. Something like the Fiio K17 might merge the PC requirement but it won't reduce it that much. And it will cost more than I've spent so far.

Interestingly Joshua Valour did a video a while ago where sometimes spreading money on multiple cheaper options is more versatile than just blowing it all on the most expensive thing you can. And I think that's sort of where I sit a bit atm.
 
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If you need several set ups for several desktops then fair enough, then it is an opportunity or excuse to try more gear.

i did see JV's video on more midrange gear, as the rule of diminishing return now is much lower, you get much better value this way anyway.
 
Raymond Lin said:
If you need several set ups for several desktops then fair enough, then it is an opportunity or excuse to try more gear.

i did see JV's video on more midrange gear, as the rule of diminishing return now is much lower, you get much better value this way anyway.
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Yea, I think once I can ditch the Windows 11 PC I think my ideal setup would be the PS5 box (Fosi K7), a solid state for Linux PC (???) and a tube Amp on the side. Maybe hold onto the iFi HD 6XX Can.

That's a three/four box setup that would work. That said if I didn't go through the changes this year I wouldn't have found the iFi, Gremlin or D10 Bal. Which have all been wonderful and helped me realise what an endgame setup might be.

To be fair to @Angst it just reads like I have a hardware addiction. I don't honest! :rolleyes:
 
All my console gaming is just through the tv speaker setup but then I don't need a mic input for that which i guess is what makes the difference.
 
Timber said:
I did try a USB switcher, introduced noise on the USB DAC/AMPs. The very first thing I did but unfortunately even just running it for mouse and keyboard introduced a small noise when silent, i.e. scrolling YouTube.

After that decided to keep the DAC/AMPs, kb&m separate. At first running 2 pairs of RCAs inputs to the edifier speakers. But I've since managed to reduce that to one either using the RCA outputs from the iFi Can, or recently adding the Topping D10 bal. It cost £75 but is driving the Gremlin and sound out to the K7. Something like the Fiio K17 might merge the PC requirement but it won't reduce it that much. And it wl cost more than I've spent so far.

Interestingly Joshua Valour did a video a while ago where sometimes spreading money on multiple cheaper options is more versatile than just blowing it all on the most expensive thing you can. And I think that's sort of where I sit a bit atm.
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USB is a digital signal so I don't understand how a USB switcher would add noise to the audio unless it was defective somehow.
 
Eddie99 said:
USB is a digital signal so I don't understand how a USB switcher would add noise to the audio unless it was defective somehow.
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I don't think so, wasn't cheap either. I've also had noise before over USB with awful interference on the SMSL C200 which I wrote about in this very thread. So USB can pick up noise. One of the downsides versus optical.

It may be my gaming PC is prone to noise and that's what both these boxes were picking up. Although the SMSL was also picking up mobile interference. All the other DAC/AMPs as long as I run them direct to their USB hosts haven't picked up noise.
 
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Angst said:
Probably just a ground loop
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Quite, old 1950s housing although we have rewired a lot of the electrics recently. Also 20/30 devices in the office all in close proximity with WiFi AP, Bluetooth. I think it's not the best from that point of view either.
 
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Yes PC USB ports are not usually noise isolated but can be on higher end boards. My last mobo had a dedicated DAC USB port which had its own power regulation away from the other components for example. My current mobo is a Gigabyte Z690 with GB's own power management and power filtering so have not had any issues even though it has no specific DAC USB port like before. I just connect the DACs to one of the 4 USB2 ports on the top row of the IO panel.

Some cheap cables can also introduce noise too though when used with a PC.

Timber said:
Oooo new Beyerdynamic... this time a stellar driver update with DT 990 Pro X.

GadgetryTech Youtube video below. I won't spoilt it too much but it does tame that famous treble. Looks like Beyer are using those TYGR/Amiron discs to tame it. Interesting.

DT 880, or TYGR Pro X versions next please.

Click to expand...
Not a fan that they downgraded the shell finish from tectured to smooth. That will go oily/shiny like most smooth finishes do on plastic products.
 
After talking about headphone power requirements the other day I was looking into how loud I actually listened to music and how much power that actually requires. I think a lot of the myth that headphone amps need to be super powered comes from reviews quoting the power requirements needed to hit 120db, I worked out the volume I normally listen at by recording the volume level of playback from my source. It seems that I usually listen around 60-70db which is well within the safe listening range. Based on this I looked up the values needed for various headphones.

It looks like my Aeons (13 ohm planars) need 800mw to reach 120db and shockingly only 0.1mw for 80db.
The hifiman HE-6 SE v2 a notorious headphone seems to require around 4watts for 120db and only 0.4 mw for 80db.

This does become more obvious when you realise the sensitivity of the headphones is advertised on the box, the HE-6 being considered very low sensitivity still reaches 84db at 1mw. Obviously there is some swing from this "average value" with dynamics and impedance curves etc but it clearly does show that power requirements are massively over played.
Even if the measurements for my listening level were off by as much as 20db it would only take about 1mw for my headphones to be playing back at 90db.
 
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