General Headphone Audio
- Thread starter garyfl
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Caporegime
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I need to get some of those pads....but I don't find the stock ones that bad?
The Voarmaks pads feel much nicer than the stock Hifiman pads.
I suppose like you mention the amplifier might not have been the best advert for it. Particularly as I've always read that the HD 800 can be picky about its amp and like the HD 6x0 can be enhanced by tubes. However it must have been quite fun to check out and is one to tick off.
The HD800S through my Violectric V222 has no veil and while the sub bass is lower in quantity they have decent bass extension - I would honestly be hard pressed to pick a favourite between the HD800S and the Arya Stealth, though I must admit that the Aryas have had the lion's share of head time since I got them last August, they just do everything so damned well.
That is going to be great!
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I wonder how it will compare to my Asgard 3 and Modius...
Soldato
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That is an amazing combo and one I enjoyed myself for a while, even compared to the V550 I still think that the 800's had that little bit better synergy with the V222, probably due to it being a slightly warmer amp, where as I preferred the HD6XX a lot more on the V550 which was one of my reasons for upgrading along with pre-amp capability.
I personally find the bass enough for me on the 800s but then I'm not really a 'bass head' tbh, I class it as 'tasteful', (V222 definitely improves it) resolution is amazing, and soundstage as you know is phenomenal, I find in a lot of headphones upper treble sparkle often gives of a false sense of detail, I'm a lover of mids and timbre, that's where I get my kicks, that moment where you're listening to some sultry jazz, and it just sounds, right!, I could've of bet a monkey on the gif animator not liking them lol, not Planar technologies!!
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I'm not a basshead either but the bass extension being what it is on hifiman, even the entry level Sundara, just felt more impactful and "real" than the HD800S. So imagine the difference between the Arya grade and HD800S. Male vocals that go deep and instruments that command some authority in the music sound exactly as you expect in real life through the Arya for example, I wasn't hearing that during my hour of listening in the shop, but was as soon as I switched over to the Sundara.
As mentioned though it may well have been that EXA100 didn't pair too well with the HD800S but did with the Sundara, even though the store staff said it was excellent for headphones, how they determined this when no specs are online about its headphone output remains a mystery, store staff be store staff and all that I guess.
Either way a dynamic driver simply cannot match a planar, it's just physics, 56mm driver vs a 100mm planar magnet array!
I'm currently sat here writing this whilst listening to the Sherlock Holmes OST:
It is an incredibly nicely mastered OST that captures everything I mention above throughout the whole OST.
As mentioned though it may well have been that EXA100 didn't pair too well with the HD800S but did with the Sundara, even though the store staff said it was excellent for headphones, how they determined this when no specs are online about its headphone output remains a mystery, store staff be store staff and all that I guess.
Either way a dynamic driver simply cannot match a planar, it's just physics, 56mm driver vs a 100mm planar magnet array!
I'm currently sat here writing this whilst listening to the Sherlock Holmes OST:
It is an incredibly nicely mastered OST that captures everything I mention above throughout the whole OST.
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Soldato
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You owned and loved the Kef Q300 speakers for years and argued their virtues for years also, they are fun sounding bass speakers! Kef's reference drivers are and have always been 5.25 inch, even used in the fabled Kef Blades! there was a reason why many preferred the Q100 over the Q300 back in the day as it had a more neutral reference sound and tighter controlled bass, as does the LS50, very nice controlled bass with a good reference sound but as I recall you wasn't a fan of it.
Regarding your store visit, no, a jack from a stereo speaker amp isn't going to do the HD800S justice but to be fair there was no way you was going to like the HD800S, it's not your type of sound signature.
And it's statements like this that really don't help you, factually planar is not audibly better than dynamic drivers, nor vice versa, they both trade blows in different aeras, do your research, google around, you can prefer any headphone you like but you can't honestly go around making these types of nonsensical claims regarding planar vs dynamics as statement of fact, it's categorically wrong, the same as your belief that R2R was inherently better than delta sigma, although now your X9 is based on a delta sigma DAC you then proceeded to say that it must be the R2R volume control that is making it sound so good!! the R2R magic is still there!
Timbre is for me singerly the most important aspect of a headphone, the ability not only to differentiate between different musical instruments playing the same note in the same octave but also the ability to have an instrument sound close to what it sounds in real life, and there is only one headphone for me that has ever done that better than any other headphone that I've heard up to 5k, and that is the HD600, there is a reason why so many musicians and audio professionals use the HD600's.
What I find is there are two types of people in audio, there are those that appreciate and understand timbre and it's importance, and those that listen to a headphone and prefer how 'fun' it sounds, the bass slam, the sparkly treble, the 'technicalities' and that's fine, loads of people, in fact the great majority of people gravitate towards that side of audio, it's more noticeable and initially apparent, but for me although that can give you a good feeling and it's enjoyable it doesn't make me get closer to the music on an emotional level because the realism isn't quite there, and that's where headphones like the HD600 can't be beaten in this particular aspect.
Remember I had NAD amps for years and years and those were all integrated amps and sounded amazing on headphones, likewise the Topping MX3S with its mere 700mW output drove the HD650 perfectly. I had the HD650 throughout all of them and only upgraded due to the new tech itch.. so a jack on an integrated certainly can be excellent, I also had various AKG in those times too, also headphones that had great bass detail, nicer than the HD650's neutral approach but the 650s were more resolving and especially for vocals.
The HD650 was in service for so long because they were an excellent all rounder across multiple amps, and you will recall I tried many other headphones during ownership and always went back to the 650, just like I tried the LS50 Meta but went back to the KEF Q300, but that was for a different reason which is similar to why I didn't like the HD800S and actually prefer the HD650 over them, yeah the bass is lacking to my ears, but given the huge price difference between them and the HD650, the 650 offered better sound for the money. I would feel ripped off if I paid for the 800S as an upgrade to the 650, for example - Which is what the LS50 Meta felt like, as I'd have had to buy a subwoofer with those to get any decent bass out of the music games and movies I listen to, which the Q300s did amazingly.
Q300 driver size is 6.5", meanwhile the Triangle Compete 40th I upgraded to is 6", yet still packs a meaningful punch!
Back to headphones though, maybe my ears have matured over time and prefer a broader range of sound than the early HD650 days, but I know that everything I liked about the HD650 features in the Arya Stealth, but with the advantage of superior low end extension without any of the classical basshead quirks that feature on the typical bassy headphones out there, some of which I owned and sold or returned for those reasons. To date I have not heard a single dynamic driver headphone that can match planar levels of low end extension, it's just seemingly not possible, and there is a distinct difference between accurate and realistic bass vs lacking in that low end extension
If you've been on stage with a band and a bass instrument is playing you know what the reverb and how it feels, that's what the planars are able to give a sense of which the Sennheisers didn't, I photograph bands playing live so know how it's supposed to feel and sound, hence why I said the above, happy to be proven otherwise, but it's just not happened yet and likely won't. If it was possible then nobody would put up with hifiman's bs lottery on QC and launch price trolling to switch boats fairly quickly. So as it stands, the planars make music fun, whilst still being resolving in the areas the Sennheisers are not. For me it's all about being realistic and fun/lively instead of aiming for neutrality alone.
Timbre may be the strong point for Sennheiser, but Timbre is the only thing going for them in this specific context. The same reason I bought and returned the HD660S2, again, a refined HD650 but almost twice the price, not enough to justify the small refinement in bass and not much else, the HD800S feels more delicate than the HD650/660 construction as well, especially those poke-friendly bendy grilles.
The hifimans may feel or look cheaper, but can grip them with a tight hand without any concern, the metal side grilles and arms won't be flexing anywhere etc.
The HD650 was in service for so long because they were an excellent all rounder across multiple amps, and you will recall I tried many other headphones during ownership and always went back to the 650, just like I tried the LS50 Meta but went back to the KEF Q300, but that was for a different reason which is similar to why I didn't like the HD800S and actually prefer the HD650 over them, yeah the bass is lacking to my ears, but given the huge price difference between them and the HD650, the 650 offered better sound for the money. I would feel ripped off if I paid for the 800S as an upgrade to the 650, for example - Which is what the LS50 Meta felt like, as I'd have had to buy a subwoofer with those to get any decent bass out of the music games and movies I listen to, which the Q300s did amazingly.
Q300 driver size is 6.5", meanwhile the Triangle Compete 40th I upgraded to is 6", yet still packs a meaningful punch!
Back to headphones though, maybe my ears have matured over time and prefer a broader range of sound than the early HD650 days, but I know that everything I liked about the HD650 features in the Arya Stealth, but with the advantage of superior low end extension without any of the classical basshead quirks that feature on the typical bassy headphones out there, some of which I owned and sold or returned for those reasons. To date I have not heard a single dynamic driver headphone that can match planar levels of low end extension, it's just seemingly not possible, and there is a distinct difference between accurate and realistic bass vs lacking in that low end extension
If you've been on stage with a band and a bass instrument is playing you know what the reverb and how it feels, that's what the planars are able to give a sense of which the Sennheisers didn't, I photograph bands playing live so know how it's supposed to feel and sound, hence why I said the above, happy to be proven otherwise, but it's just not happened yet and likely won't. If it was possible then nobody would put up with hifiman's bs lottery on QC and launch price trolling to switch boats fairly quickly. So as it stands, the planars make music fun, whilst still being resolving in the areas the Sennheisers are not. For me it's all about being realistic and fun/lively instead of aiming for neutrality alone.
Timbre may be the strong point for Sennheiser, but Timbre is the only thing going for them in this specific context. The same reason I bought and returned the HD660S2, again, a refined HD650 but almost twice the price, not enough to justify the small refinement in bass and not much else, the HD800S feels more delicate than the HD650/660 construction as well, especially those poke-friendly bendy grilles.
The hifimans may feel or look cheaper, but can grip them with a tight hand without any concern, the metal side grilles and arms won't be flexing anywhere etc.
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Soldato
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This is your post from the couple of years ago,
what headphones do you own thread - i own dt150's :)
Do you have a budget? What music do you like to listen to? And do the have to be open back as well or closed back ok? tend to listen to a wide variety of music,prefer closed back due listening to stuff late at night,and not disturbing the other half. budget £250 ish... Zia
forums.overclockers.co.uk
Interesting isn't it, how perceptions change over time, here you are explaining that the Topping MX3s is providing a marked improvement over the NAD, and also confirmation that you was EQ'ing them by raising the bass and treble to a more 'fun' V-shaped sound signature.
You see, it sounded amazing to you at the time, but it's not the best way to power a HD650 or HD800S, they are known to love power and scale accordingly, I remember you used to argue persistently how good the HD650 was, myself and others on here explained to you that the HD650 is an amazing headphone but it's staging and imaging was not very good, and you would argue the toss saying how amazing the soundstage and imaging is/was, care for another example?,
what headphones do you own thread - i own dt150's :)
The Custom Cans headband mod arrived today, it smells like high quality leather :cool: It's also very soft compared to the stiff as cardboard stock headband suspension piece: Stock: Custom cans: Installed: It comes with the 3M super sticky tape too: It no longer applies pressure to...
forums.overclockers.co.uk
And that is my point, we grow and learn, and our experiences and perceptions of things change, we can't be right about everything all of the time, you for example have learnt that there are a lot more very technically proficient headphones out there that you prefer, today for example you'll argue until your blue in the face the X9 and Arya do things better than anything else on the planet listing a myriad of reasons and justifications why, just as you did with the K11 being all that you could ever want and why would someone spend more!, just as you did with the HD650, just as you did with the Q300, but as time marches on things change and so does the 'amazing component' of the day does with it.
I've personally been very consistent in my opinions, I think for example that the HD600 is one of the best headphones in the world, but on the same token I will not defend it in all aeras, I know, and have always known it has faults and are accepting of the criticisms of them, I don't need to justify my choices and purchasing decisions to everyone as 'perfect' components that have no faults.
Which is fine, preferences are largely subjective, but the LS50 do have much better texture and control but not the quantity that you desired, I think we are seeing a theme here, you like bass, and that's ok, but quantity and quality are two very different things, it's very hard to get both done well, there is usually a compromise, and as Rids57 alluded to, dynamics usually tend to offer a more impactful slam or punch where as planer's can expand a little further into the sub-bass regions in terms of quantity, it's all abut trade offs.
I agree your tastes have changed, what you once passionately exulted the virtues and greatness of certain components has been eclipsed, just be aware of that, trumpeting something to high heaven and back that one day we be also replaced and the trumpet comes out again polished and ready to be sounded out.
Bass I agree, a kickdrum will sound better with a headphone that extends lower into the sub-regions, but the timbre and tone of instruments like a flute, oboe, bassoon, cello, clarinet, trumpet, trombones etc will in my opinion and my experience including the collective experience of many musicians sound more realistic on a HD600, and a HD800S for that matter, but that doesn't make it a better headphone, it's down to preferences and use cases, I'm not here to argue what I own is better than what everyone else has, but to discuss the pluses and negatives of various different headphone, no headphone gets it perfect across the board and there is always better out there.
Isn't that exactly what we are discussing though, a difference of subjectiveness, what I found great sounding in the past still is great sounding, just my preference has expanded as I've been exposed to new music I never knew existed in the past, and with new music comes a new experience with new hardware to play them back via.The main reason I upgraded the MX3S is because it did not like p[lanar headphones as the protection mode kicked in locking the unit up. I posted about this plenty of times. Otherwise I'd probably still have the MX3S as there would have been no real desire to change from it since it drove both headphones (not planars) and speakers safely.
Of course that's all changed now that I have a dedicated DAC/Preamp with HP amp which didn't cost anything, so can now explore a new experience with the growing list of new music the algorithm keeps showing me on Spotify (playlist link in sig...).
I do like bass, always have, but it's the quality of the bass which I've always vouched for, but without needing to add a subwoofer, simply put I don't like having a subwoofer, personal reasons, hence why I kept the Q300 so long as they did quality bass at a level I found excellent, and after 12 years or so it was time to move onto something more modern/special that can hopefully last longer the 12 years.
LS50 meta may well have a lot of texture and resolution, but you need to mate that with a subwoofer to get the most out of them, which goes back to the above where I just don't care or want subwoofer as I have experienced great bass without needing one for over a decade so don't feel I should add additional cost and complexity to my set up to get what I enjoyed with the older speakers. Thankfully speakers do exist that do have great bass quality and punch, I just had to pay several times over my original budget for that luxury, which as it turns out, was a great decision to make.
Of course that's all changed now that I have a dedicated DAC/Preamp with HP amp which didn't cost anything, so can now explore a new experience with the growing list of new music the algorithm keeps showing me on Spotify (playlist link in sig...).
I do like bass, always have, but it's the quality of the bass which I've always vouched for, but without needing to add a subwoofer, simply put I don't like having a subwoofer, personal reasons, hence why I kept the Q300 so long as they did quality bass at a level I found excellent, and after 12 years or so it was time to move onto something more modern/special that can hopefully last longer the 12 years.
LS50 meta may well have a lot of texture and resolution, but you need to mate that with a subwoofer to get the most out of them, which goes back to the above where I just don't care or want subwoofer as I have experienced great bass without needing one for over a decade so don't feel I should add additional cost and complexity to my set up to get what I enjoyed with the older speakers. Thankfully speakers do exist that do have great bass quality and punch, I just had to pay several times over my original budget for that luxury, which as it turns out, was a great decision to make.
Caporegime
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They did and have you checked the price now? it's £299 !Topping has sent out the DX5 II shipping email this morning