Aircraft turn around all the time like this. Its hardly all that unusual, however after a big crash everything makes the news..Seems another one "today/yesterday" too but British Airways. A British Airways flight from London to India had to turn around mid-air when it suffered a 'flap failure' ...
British Airways flight from London to India turns round MID-AIR
The Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner was yesterday less than an hour into its journey from Heathrow to Chennai when a pilot suspected a 'technical issue'.www.dailymail.co.uk
Had to dump fuel before coming back to land, landed safely thankfully.
Air India Crash
- Thread starter Grim5
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If something like a fadec lost all power in an instant, could it communicate errors / failures to the cockpit - it maybe couldn't / didn't ? Combined with what appears to be the absence of anything obvious like a bird strike, or vibration from a broken engine, the pilots maybe just felt the engines roll back ... take couple of seconds to realise / process this ( took the hudson river crash pilots 3 seconds to comment on it after being aware of birds and actually hitting them )... shove the levers forward to ask for more ... wait another couple of seconds for response from engines ... realise you're not getting anything ... in the possible absence of failure messages, it seems reasonable to think 'no thrust' rather than 'engine failure'.
At which point the pilots would know they are falling and in real trouble and call mayday for no thrust. ( Hudson river crash pilots radio'ed mayday after about 20 seconds. The air india plane looks like it crashed in around 20 seconds from when the footage appears to show it lose power ).
Where are my epaulettes for all thie **** specualtion ?
It could be that he has the throttles full, and the engines report they're at full but there's no thrust.
This I know mate, but as we have seen 787-8 don't crash too, until the tragic Air India event.
With the state of the world we are living in right now, we need to keep an eye on such events and hope they are just sad accidents and not something malicious happening and happening to a certain type of aeroplane that some malicious group may have gained some sort of recent access to.
I disagree, it's a BS story covering normal airline operations to generate clicks and ad revenue.
The crash is likely to be either poor/missed maintenance or pilot error; I'd be extremely surprised if the reason is that both engines lost power due to some design issue with the aircraft.
If they have more/better CCTV, what they should do with it, is supply it to the investigation team rather than release them publicly to satisfy our morbid curiosity and desire to play armchair investigators.
There's obviously very little can be done about random witnesses deciding to throw everything on social media but there's no reason 'official' footage like that needs showing to anyone and everyone before the conclusion of any investigations.
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I agree with your first paragraph.
On the second, it would need explaining how both engines can shut down simultaneously with no evidence of catastrophic failure. Anything bad enough to cause complete shutdown would be visible in the videos.
Soldato
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Total electrical failure would have caused the RAT to deploy which can be heard on the original video clip.
But wouldn't stop the engines running. I dunno how many times this needs repeating
But wouldn't stop the engines running. I dunno how many times this needs repeating
Many more times probably
Fact is we have no more information than we did last week so its all still just pure speculation.
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How are the fuel system powered in such situations?But wouldn't stop the engines running. I dunno how many times this needs repeating
Associate
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The FADEC’s I’ve worked on have their own internal alternator that provide power to the electronics so that even if all control signals are lost, the boxes still work and leave the engine in a stable condition providing thrust.
Sadly that is the case and why some of us are getting itchy to know the real cause. Hopefully also to give the grieving families and friends something to understand why they lost loved ones.
By an engine driven pump, often referred to as a "suction feed". The electronic fuel pumps typically act as boost pumps to ensure fuel flow.
I think we're going round and round in circles now.
Interim report will be a couple of months, I suspect.
Final report over a year.
Stuff may be released to the press and if something major is found it's possible the fleet will be grounded well before all that, (or maintenance action mandated)
Interim report will be a couple of months, I suspect.
Final report over a year.
Stuff may be released to the press and if something major is found it's possible the fleet will be grounded well before all that, (or maintenance action mandated)
...and in the case of the 787, a thrust lever position resolver is also powered by the internal generator, so in the event of a complete and total flight desk instrument failure, the thrust levers remain able to command the engines.
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Associate
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Aircraft - they don’t need power, fuel is supplied by mavity and engine LP pump suction.
Engine - FADEC computers have their own generator to control the computers which decide the fuel schedule, it doesn’t need external power once it’s running.
They’d check if the pilot who had s about to retire has taken out life insurance payable to his family.
Sounds like a horrid course of investigation but it wouldn’t surprise be one of the scenarios they’d check and confirm as you never know people’s private lives.
I think now, there’s no more information available so it is hustling going to be a cycle of analysis without being able to answer - the reason (horribly) is that it makes money on social media.
No point getting itchy about it now, especially if it doesn't directly involve or affect you, next we'll hear is when some sort of initial findings are published and then eventually the various reports that will get issued longer term.
These things take more than 5 minutes to accurately get to the bottom of and as frustrating as that might be, keeping things private in the mean time is the right thing to do rather than just keep publicly drip feeding little bits of information to fuel ill-informed public speculation and allow a few YouTubers to drum up some more video hits.
I agree and understand all that, these things take time.
Regarding my comment above here, I was talking about hacks to a plane's systems (Cybersecurity), something I guess many don't think about
(surprised as a computer tech related forums).Researcher hacks aircraft controls with Android smartphone
This may give the TSA some ideas
www.theregister.com
Then systems still running on floppy disks...
US air traffic control uses floppy disks for backup
: Not to worry nervous flyers, FAA vows to banish archaic systems... in a few years
www.theregister.com
This is worth a read :-
Cybercrime & Aviation - Risk Business
The global market and regulatory researchers have shown that it is possible to hijack a commercial airliner using its onboard WiFi signal opening up a whole new world of risk for airlines and aircraft operators.
riskbusiness.com
There is a lot out there to google regarding Aviation and cybersecurity, from the Aeroplanes to the airports, ATC (Air traffic control), booking systems etc. Cybersecurity is right at the top now in Aviation security.
Worth a read too :-
The types of hackers and cyberattacks in the aviation industry - Journal of Transportation Security
The main goal of this study is to analyse the types of hackers and cyberattacks in the aviation industry, to enhance cybersecurity in the air sector. This manuscript has identified 12 different typologies of hackers in the aviation context. First, those hackers who exercise responsibility in...
link.springer.com
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It would, as FADEC control would be lost so by default they go to flight idle and roll back.But wouldn't stop the engines running. I dunno how many times this needs repeating
Same with a car, stop giving throttle and the engine slows down.