20k Hybrid or 10k Petrol Motor

Shikkaka

Shikkaka

Shikkaka

Soldato
Joined
10 Jun 2003
Posts
2,881
Location
Nottingham
Hi all,

I'm in the market for a new motor. My job has changed which requires travel from to another location and back once a week, sometimes twice. A round trip is just over 180 miles and mostly motorways and the A1

I've been using the company pool car to do this but it's a bit cumbersome managing it with other employees, having to return the car for someone else to use, picking up on weekends so I can leave first thing Monday and hiring when someone else has it booked.

I've requested a company car which has been declined, I'm now pushing for a car allowance instead. They have given me the option of using my own car and claiming back the mileage to ease the above management of it. At first I was skeptical about using my own car but then started looking into a Hybrid and how it could work in my favor if I use my own car 3-4 times a month.

Both options would be financed.

20K HYBRID
I've been looking at the Golf 1.5TSI eHybrid and the Cupra Formentor eHybrid 245, both have around 80-90 mileage

The golf is probably out of my price range (30k) and the Cupra can be had for around 18k-20k.

My plan would be to charge the car at both locations to cover the mileage, I'd also have a full charge on a Friday for the minimal weekend driving that I do, the petrol engine would cover any trips to the coast, day trips etc.
Using this car 4 times a month would cover a good chunk of the monthly finance.

10K PETROL
I'd probably be looking at a MK3 Focus ST for this price.

I could still use the car to drive to the other site and back but obviously I'd be paying for the fuel.

The monthly costs would be lower and possibly still covered by what I claim back but it'll be an older car more susceptible to breakdown.

Not the most economical of cars but a car I actually want, rather than a tool to use for work.

CONSIDERATIONS
- Wear and tear, with it being mostly cruising at 70mph, will this be minimal?

- Buy a super economical cheap car, no finance, claim mileage back until it dies - comfort might be an issue doing this regularly?

- If I was just in the market for a new car, I wouldn't even be considering a Hybrid, it would be a turbo'd petrol, something enjoyable to drive.

- Downsides to owning a hybrid? - battery replacement costs?

- Is the above just a bat-**** bonkers idea?


Thanks in advance
 
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Have you confirmed the mileage rate they'll be reimbursing you at? Is it the full HMRC advisory rates or lower?

I'd be tempted to go with your idea of the super economical cheap car, I did this for a while in a previous job. Get yourself an old 1.9pd Octavia/Superb or similar and you'll be making ~ £120 each time you do the trip. Yes it will be a boring car to drive, but relatively comfortable, and how much fun are you actually going to have sitting on the motorway?
 
Yes I've confirmed the 0.45p rate, up to 10,000 miles. It'll only work out at ~£80 per trip though, unless I'm missing something.

The fun part was for the weekends, I miss having a nippy petrol car for those summer / country lane drives.
 
The 45p rate is fine for covering fuel and additional wear, insurance etc. on a car you already own for sporadic business trips but it's not really enough to cover off spending extra money to buy a vehicle tailored for using routinely for business.

The bonus of just working with the 45p rate and not getting bogged down in allowances etc. is that you can presumably still use the pool car when it suits you to do so and just default back to your own car when it's too much hassle to use the pool car.
 
Kenai said:
The 45p rate is fine for covering fuel and additional wear, insurance etc. on a car you already own for sporadic business trips but it's not really enough to cover off spending extra money to buy a vehicle tailored for using routinely for business.

The bonus of just working with the 45p rate and not getting bogged down in allowances etc. is that you can presumably still use the pool car when it suits you to do so and just default back to your own car when it's too much hassle to use the pool car.
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That was the thinking behind the hybrid, little to no fuel costs would offset some of the additional costs but perhaps I'm not doing enough trips.

Yes exactly.

Monday's are almost always the day I make the trip as it suits my child care arrangements. Based on that I've also considered asking to take the pool car home on a Friday so I have it first thing Monday.

I've held off though at I want this situation to work in my favour. They're very much an employee first company so won't want me using my weekend to collect it.
 
Shikkaka said:
That was the thinking behind the hybrid, little to no fuel costs would offset some of the additional costs but perhaps I'm not doing enough trips.
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If you could get one with a long enough range, maybe - the new 1.5 PHEV VW group stuff with 20kWh batteries and circa 75 mile range would definitely cut your fuel costs (the older 1.4s with circa 35 mile range less so, obviously) but you'd take a while to break even I think in terms of recovering extra spend vs buying the same car with a 2.0 TSI 190 in it or something.

You'd probably also want to consider at that point, would an EV be more suitable anyway - perhaps your company offer a Salary Sacrifice scheme that's competitive enough to be worth consideration?
Shikkaka said:
Based on that I've also considered asking to take the pool car home on a Friday so I have it first thing Monday.
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You'll probably find they'll be a little wary of letting you do this, as one of the conditions as to whether HMRC considers a vehicle is genuinely a pool car is where it's usually kept and so it can become more hassle than it's worth for whoever manages the fleet to start letting people take the car for extended periods.

Overview​

15.1​

Sections 167 and 168 Sections 167(2) and 168(2)

In this chapter references to cars include vans. A car is not considered to be available for private use if it’s a pooled car, therefore no assessable benefit arises from its use.

Sections 167(3) and 168(3)

A car only qualifies as a pooled car if all the following conditions are satisfied:

(a) It’s available to, and actually used by, more than one employee.

(b) It’s made available, in the case of each of those employees, by reason of their employment.

(c) It is not ordinarily used by one of them to the exclusion of the others.

(d) Any private use by an employee is merely incidental to their business use of it.

(e) It is not normally kept overnight on or near the residence of any of the employees unless it’s kept on premises occupied by the provider of the car.
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Meaning of ‘merely incidental to’​

15.2​

Sections 167(3)(d) and 168(3)(d)

The expression ‘merely incidental to’ imposes a qualitative rather than a quantitative test. The use of a car for what is primarily a business journey but embracing some limited private use would be within the terms of (b) in paragraph 15.1 above. A simple example might be where an employee who needs to undertake a long business journey is allowed to take a pool car home the previous night in readiness for an early morning start.

The office to home journey although private is, in this particular context, subordinate to the lengthy business trip the following day and is undertaken to further the business trip. In short, it’s merely incidental to the business use of the car on that occasion. A reservation is necessary in this type of case: if it happened too often, condition (e) in paragraph 15.1 above would not be met.

Meaning of ‘not normally kept overnight’​

15.3​

Sections 167(3)(e) and 168(3)(e)

It’s accepted that a car is not normally kept overnight at or near the homes of employees if the number of occasions on which it’s taken home by employees does not amount to more than 60% of the year. But where a car is garaged at the employees’ homes on a large number of occasions, although for less than 60% of the year, it’s unlikely that all the home-to-work journeys would satisfy the ‘merely incidental to’ test in paragraph 15.2.
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It's one of those things that seems like it should be easily managed but any manager with even a hint of risk aversion will often just avoid the problem and say 'no, can't do that with a pool car'.
 
I think the new Golfs claim up to 82 miles which would get me there, they're just a little too expensive. The Cupra claims 70 miles.

Nice, thanks for pulling that information out. Possibly still worth asking the question? But as you said, if any manager is aware of the above then it'll likely be a no. This would then play into the management of the pool car being a hassle. I'd have to travel 40 minutes south to collect it, to drive pretty much straight past the town in which I live. Plus it'll add 1hr 20 minutes to a 1hr 50 minute drive to the other site.

I think either way I could utilize both my own and the pool car to my benefit....
  • If I can take the pool car home at the weekends then I'd use the pool car on the Monday and either my own or the pool car if I need to go on Thursday/Friday.
  • If I can't take the pool car at the weekend, I'll use my own car every Monday and the pool car if I need to go on Thursday/Friday.

Obviously this is subject to no-one else needing it at the same time.
 
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Shikkaka said:
I think the new Golfs claim up to 82 miles which would get me there, they're just a little too expensive. The Cupra claims 70 miles.
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Why are you looking at a Hybrid not just a pure EV? You can get a lot of nice cars for under £20k
Shikkaka said:
My plan would be to charge the car at both locations to cover the mileage, I'd also have a full charge on a Friday for the minimal weekend driving that I do, the petrol engine would cover any trips to the coast, day trips etc.
Using this car 4 times a month would cover a good chunk of the monthly finance.
Click to expand...

What sort of distance do you do on day trips and how often?
 
if he gets a full ev to use for company business, although he can charge it for free(but home charging wouldn't be expensive either)
he won't get the 45p rate, rather it's a derisory amount - 15p is it ? which wouldn't pay the depreciation and insurance.

[
doesn't the type of the insurance on the pool car largely prevent any illicit private weekend use ?
and if you are a one car household and that was the only car you had at your address over the weekend, with your car swapped over at the office 40minutes away that would be iffy.
]
 
jpaul said:
if he gets a full ev to use for company business, although he can charge it for free(but home charging wouldn't be expensive either)
he won't get the 45p rate, rather it's a derisory amount - 15p is it ? which wouldn't pay the depreciation and insurance.
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He'd get 45p, it's a flat rate for use of a private car, fuel type doesn't come into it.

It might be different for salary sacrifice cars, as they're treated effectively as company cars for tax purposes.
 
ok so for full ev purchase, mileage rate could pay off (higher) ev depreciation faster


Shikkaka said:
I've been looking at the Golf 1.5TSI eHybrid and the Cupra Formentor eHybrid 245, both have around 80-90 mileage
Click to expand...
is there a significant distinction on charging rates between these (just returned as a hot topic in ev thread)
might appear - mybe not right versions

Charging https://www.electrifying.com/reviews/cupra/formentor-e-hybrid/range
As with many plug-in hybrids, the Cupra only offers slow charging of up to 3.6kW, which works out at around three and a half hours from a normal home wallbox. A standard domestic three-pin socket will deliver a full charge in some five hours, so it’s quite possible to fully recharge the Cupra Formentor PHEV while you’re at work or overnight at home even if you don’t have a home car charger.

he Golf Match eHybrid delivers up to 89 miles of electric range, the Golf Style eHybrid delivers up to 88 miles of electric range, and Golf GTE up to 82 miles (official test figures)⁠<span><span>2</span></span>. What’s more, improved charging properties compared to earlier versions reduce the charging time. The onboard battery for Golf Match, Style eHybrid and Golf GTE is now capable of AC charging at a rate of 11 kW (previously 3.6 kW) Charge time AC 11 KW 0% - to 100% in as little as 2.5 hours using a 11kW charger and now equipped with DC quick-charging at up to 40 kW.
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I doubt you'll actually get the 70-80 mile range claimed if you are doing all motorway miles (unless you drive very slowly and very economically etc), so I imagine you would have the ice kicking in a reasonable bit.

If you like the idea of not using petrol at all, and are able to charge at your destination, then I'd look at a used EV instead potentially.
 
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Journey said:
Why are you looking at a Hybrid not just a pure EV? You can get a lot of nice cars for under £20k


What sort of distance do you do on day trips and how often?
Click to expand...

It's normally trips to the coast, 80-120 miles each way. I just really don't fancy a full EV, even once or twice a year, the thought of having to stop and charge for an hour doesn't appeal at all.

jpaul said:
if he gets a full ev to use for company business, although he can charge it for free(but home charging wouldn't be expensive either)
he won't get the 45p rate, rather it's a derisory amount - 15p is it ? which wouldn't pay the depreciation and insurance.

[
doesn't the type of the insurance on the pool car largely prevent any illicit private weekend use ?
and if you are a one car household and that was the only car you had at your address over the weekend, with your car swapped over at the office 40minutes away that would be iffy.
]
Click to expand...

I checked the business mileage form and all of the personal car options return 45p/mile. How soon before HMRC changes it, who knows. I've had the pool car over a weekend before and never been pulled up on it but now my job has changed it would probably be most weekends which may raise some eyebrows.

If I buy a new car I'll probably catch the train into the office on the days I need the pool car, I'd rather it be sat at home all weekend. Plus the hidden part of the staff car park is surrounded by trees.... I've often come back to a bird poo massacre.

Kenai said:
If you're looking at a 245, that sounds like a prefacelift car and the range will be more like 30 miles.

The 1.5 Facelift e-Hybrid comes as a 204 or 272, those will have the longer range.
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Yes, it'd be the later models with the higher range which come with the higher price tags... the more I think about it the more I'm heading towards spending 10k on a car I actually want and utilising the pool car as much as I can and using my own car a few times a month. I'll be doing very little personal mileage on a week to week basis and I'm sure the Focus ST will return 35+ MPG on a long motorway run when I do use it for work trips.

radderfire said:
I would just get a 10K petrol car that you like driving. You aren't doing mega miles. I don't think hybrids are that good really, and it would be expensive.
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Yes, the more I think about it, the more I'm tempted into this option. It's been so long since I bought a car I actually want... might be time to treat myself.

Jono8 said:
I doubt you'll actually get the 70-80 mile range claimed if you are doing all motorway miles (unless you drive very slowly and very economically etc), so I imagine you would have the ice kicking in a reasonable bit.

If you like the idea of not using petrol at all, and are able to charge at your destination, then I'd look at a used EV instead potentially.
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I just don't think a full EV is for me. I don't think they're practical. The inconvenience of having to stop and charge even once a year would annoy me.

I liked the idea of the Golf or Cupra as they're both 250+ BHP with a petrol engine and would cost me very little to use for the work trips. The purchase price is probably going to squash any financial gain from using it for work.
 
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Shikkaka said:
I just don't think a full EV is for me. I don't think they're practical. The inconvenience of having to stop and charge even once a year would annoy me.

I liked the idea of the Golf or Cupra as they're both 250+ BHP with a petrol engine and would cost me very little to use for the work trips. The purchase price is probably going to squash any financial gain from using it for work.
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How many 200 + mile trips do you make?

Also, if you plan on using just the electric motor, or then just the ICE when the motor is out of juice, it's not going to be a 250hp car.
 
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