For what it’s worth, sister’s ex husband used to be a driving instructor. Among some of the insights he shared was that he had to remind learners that driving at 20 in a clear 30 mph could result in a failed driving test.
Your bad driving encounters
- Thread starter Stu999
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For what it’s worth, sister’s ex husband used to be a driving instructor. Among some of the insights he shared was that he had to remind learners that driving at 20 in a clear 30 mph could result in a failed driving test.
What I care about is where people's approach helps the roads to be better for everyone - and so should everyone. I don't care if people have a loose interpretation of the rules where their approach doesn't impact on other drivers. What I do find laughable is the notion that people who drive poorly in accordance to the highway code are enabled by people who otherwise drive well but don't stick strictly to the speed limits. (Personally I don't speed at least not generally there may be instances when overtaking, etc., but within reason I don't care what anyone else does in that respect unless they are driving excessively fast or excessively slowly without good reason where that affects other road users).
From the last few posts I think some posters need to spend awhile watching Ashley Neal's videos and their arguments are trying to cover their own resistance to improving their standards of driving.
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Soldato
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yeah my instructor used to get frustrated at me. the problem was i could essentially drive - i had been driving since single digit figures on farm machinery and old bangers on private land - but when my dad went out with me on roads he would be constantly telling me to slow down because he didnt have duel controls. my instructor would be constantly telling me to speed up because i was not doing the speed limit.
i cant complain, i passed in 10 lessons (we got a discount for booking blocks of 10) over a few months so my dad saved me a huge amount of cash with his help but ...................................... anyways i digress sorry back to arguing about what is bad driving
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"Doesn't impact on other drivers" is very much open to interpretation however, and the whole point of the post which kicked off this discussion is that people thinking it's acceptable to pick and choose which rules they want to follow is the whole reason for driving standards deteriorating.
"I'll just nip through this red light, there's probably nothing coming"
"I'll just sit in the right lane, I'm turning right at the next roundabout anyway"
"I can't be bothered to indicate, that car is waiting anyway"
etc...
That's some seriously impressive mental gymnastics right there. So your thought process is: "person doesn't like other people ignoring the rules of the road when it suits them, so therefore they must be breaking the rules themselves"
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That's some seriously impressive mental gymnastics right there. So your thought process is: "person doesn't like other people ignoring the rules of the road when it suits them, so therefore they must be breaking the rules themselves"
There is a lot of arguing against my point that what matters is driving in a way which makes the roads work better for everyone and an over-focus on speed in a manner which suggests they are using it as a justification for their own behaviours they know should be better - so it leaves me wondering.
Except nobody is arguing against that point. We're arguing that speed is also bad, along with all the other breaking of rules which makes the roads a less pleasant and more dangerous place for everyone - they aren't mutually exclusive, it's not a case of "speed bad, driving like a **** good", or "speed good, driving like a **** bad".
"speed bad, driving like a **** also bad" is also a perfectly valid position to hold, and a far more likely one based on the posts I'm seeing.
It sounds a lot like you're projecting to be honest, using other poster's (imagined) bad driving to deflect from the point that you feel that it's perfectly fine to pick and choose which laws you feel like following (whilst simultaneously decrying everyone else who does exactly the same thing.)
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But YOU don't.
You've stated quite categorically how you apply a "pragmatic approach". Quite how you think others should understand YOUR specific logic is beyond me.
I've only made 2 points, several people have replied to me seeming assuming I'm justifying speeding.
One I do not believe for a moment that people having a loose interpretation of the speed limit is an enabling factor in people having a loose interpretation of the highway code and driving badly in general and secondly that what people should be concerned about is the material impact of people's loose adherence to the highway code - it really isn't that hard to know when doing something is being inconsiderate to other drivers or not - sure we can't always get everything right and sometimes there are factors we aren't aware of etc.
We absolutely agree with the principle of creating safer and more pleasant driving environment.
Maybe we should provide a book with that guidance in it. How about we call it something snappy, like the "HIGHWAY CODE". Oh yeah, but you think that parts of it are optional.
Oh well...
I apply a pragmatic approach, as best I can, to other people's driving. I held my hand up to raging in one instance (after a whole day of dealing with poor driving) but that didn't change anything in terms of how I was driving in respect to other people and not my normal setting - and it doesn't change that in that instance the other party didn't appear to have any reasonable reason for driving the way they were.
People having a loose adherence to the highway code doesn't itself enable poor driving - I've been in plenty of situations where people with a poor regard for other road users demonstrate they are perfectly aware of how they should be doing better when forced to confront it for some reason.
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It does come across that way, if that wasn't the intention then fair enough.
No, but many people don't even try, be that ignoring priority, failing to indicate, poor lane discipline, or inappropriate speed.
Exactly - so sticking to the rules (which in the main are there for a reason, even if it isn't immediately obvious), seems like a good idea, in case one of those factors suddenly becomes apparent in a rather dramatic fashion...
Even the apparently "harmless" speeding on an "empty" motorway in the middle of the night can have devastating consequences, both for you and others. I've come face to face with a completely unlit upside down car in the middle of an unlit motorway before. I was able to stop in time, but had I been doing 80, then I probably wouldn't have.
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Personally I don't bother myself as to other people's speed unless they are driving significantly at variance to the speed limit and conditions and I rarely drive above the speed limit personally exceptional situations aside. I spent a lot of time driving vehicles restricted to van limits so it doesn't bother me if someone is doing a little below the speed limit. I do take exception to people whose thinking doesn't go any further than speed = bad who often are extremely poor drivers themselves ironically or drive slowly on purpose as some kind of misguided retaliation against the perception people are generally speeding.
Let me try a slightly different approach.
Do you watch or play footy?
If so, do you think that they should have arbitrary rules that can be applied pragmatically?
"what do you mean ref, I know that was over the line, but I think that's OK to just play on"..
Do you watch or play footy?
If so, do you think that they should have arbitrary rules that can be applied pragmatically?
"what do you mean ref, I know that was over the line, but I think that's OK to just play on"..
Soldato
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the above is all fair enough and objectively i fully accept its a hard sell excusing speeding. most of us do it from time to time but, much like watching football in a pub where you know for sure they are not paying the subs to broadcast it you also know its a bit wrong but it would not stop many people who want to watch it..
(someone else used football analogy 1st!)
but Speed does seem to be the only thing that the majority seem to care about... if there is a car accident the 1st assumption is about who was going to fast.... but i do not know a single person (yes someone here will now prove me wrong) who got pulled over and prosecuted for tailgating for instance, or for cutting right on a roundabout in the left hand lane despite surely some of them must have been spotted by police at some time or another (i see these things at least once every week!), just like in Cambridge police have to see completely sozzled people cycling at night with no lights on but turn a blind eye or just a 2 min stop and "get some lights sunshine" and then let go.
another one that occurs to me... how hard it is to stick in those keep your distance chevrons because if you keep that distance then that is a green light for a car to pull out on you, so you drop back and someone else does exactly the same thing. I know we dont have as much traffic police as we should have but still they must see these issues all the time, why not deal with those like they may speeders?
but a car driver going 45mph in a 40? "let slip the dogs of war!" (perhaps i am exaggerating a little on that last sentence)
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That’s a bit of a leap. So posters stating ALL Highway Code rules should be followed to improve the safety of everyone and that speeding is no exception… becomes some sort of admission that they are crap drivers who drive slow?
So remind me, what Ashley’s views on:
- not exceeding the speed limit
- applying a “pragmatic” approach to rules
If you’ve got links to the relevant videos, I’d love to see them.
What I was taking exception to was the notion that people breaking the speed limit is enabling the general inconsiderate and poor standards of driving:
The tone of replies taking exception to me thinking that is tosh and that even if people who generally drive well also adhered strictly to the speed limit it wouldn't change those who drive inconsiderately tends to heavily lean towards people using the notion that people generally speed as a justification for their driving behaviours.
Competitive sports aren't really comparable to driving on the roads, there are a lot of ways bending the rules a bit when driving can be necessary to make the roads work better and safer for everyone as the real world is rarely perfect, or have no negative impact on other drivers, the same is rarely true in competition where the rules have evolved to make a fair game.
I've never seen Ashley argue that people breaking the speed limit is enabling poor driving in general. Ashley has multiple times said the highway code isn't infallible and that it doesn't work for every possible situation.
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