Air India Crash

Many moons ago now I worked in aircraft engineering and ran a system that read data taken from the FDR and wrote it onto an optical disc in a QAR. Once a week, discs were taken off of each aircraft in the fleet and sent to me for general analysis by the computer itself. Any incidents such as overspeed with a certain flap setting, were sent as an alert to the relevant fleet captains and so pilots were encouraged to report and not hide things. It was a bit big brother if you like.

Aside from that, every time we had an incident on one of the aircraft in the fleet, I would be told what had occurred and then I'd look at the available parameters to find what happened. I wasn't a licensed engineer so I just presented my findings to those in the department who were and they would work out what had gone wrong.

Keeping in mind this was the late 90's going into 2001 (when I then left), the data resembled that of a Seismogram with lines on a screen. As you moved along the lines, it went along in seconds and there were a huge amount of parameters to look at.

Two incidents I recall looking at were an uncontained engine failure on an A300 and a panel that departed the top surface of the left wing of an A321.
The A300 was obviously an older airframe but still had a decent selection of things to look at so it would be things like altitude, airspeed, outside air temperature, EGT, N1, N2, fuel flow, engine vibrations, oil temp etc etc. You could see certain lines go from being perfectly flat to a little wiggle and then boom, off the scale.
The A321 was a little different. A passenger reported to the cabin crew that something had come off the left wing and sure enough there was a rather large gap just in front of the aileron. Prior to that there had been a lot of airframe vibration.
I looked at various bits on the PC, altitude, airspeed, heading, airframe vibration, which autopilot was engaged, selected altitude, selected heading etc. Basically the panel was loose and was causing a lot of vibration in the airflow which was registering as high airframe vibration. The aircraft then entered a left hand turn (on autopilot) meaning left hand aileron up, right hand aileron down and just as the turn commenced, the panel came off hitting the aileron as it went. All was good and the vibration stopped.
Nothing to solve as such but interesting to look at. I looked at all sorts in my time there.

Some years down the line from that, I worked for a company supplying components for Dash 8 Q400's. Absolute heap of an aircraft.
Anyway, the company had previously supplied 737 classic components before I ever joined and they had a few old bits left that were time expired and needed to be destroyed so they could never find their way back into the system, particularly in countries that don't care too much for that sort of thing.
I was tasked with 'breaking' two FDR's one day and my word it took some effort! I took a hammer to them both and using the claw end, beat them repeatedly until I eventually started to break through the casing. That took some doing.

Nothing to add on the Air India incident but just my two penneth on FDR's and how much they record.
 
Saw that this morning and thought what have they found that has made them make that decision.

If you do not know the cause of an incident you should theoretically ground the entire fleet of 787's imo but capitalism yo!

You can speculate pilot error or whatever but without knowing the truth any passenger or pilot could be boarding a 787 that potentially has a fatal flaw just waiting to happen.

I can imagine current rostered Air India pilots type rated to the 787 must have been having sleepless nights recently and expected to fly!
 
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If you do not know the cause of an incident you should theoretically ground the entire fleet of 787's imo but capitalism yo!

You can speculate pilot error or whatever but without knowing the truth any passenger or pilot could be boarding a 787 that potentially has a fatal flaw just waiting to happen.

I can imagine current rostered Air India pilots type rated to the 787 must have been having sleepless nights recently and expected to fly!
Exactly only Air India have, no one else so that points to either a maintenance issue or specifically Air India not Boeing issue.
 
Many moons ago now I worked in aircraft engineering and ran a system that read data taken from the FDR and wrote it onto an optical disc in a QAR…

Nothing to add on the Air India incident but just my two penneth on FDR's and how much they record.

I’ve worked on various military/civil aircraft of all ages with different standards of recording (being on the flight deck when one pilot dropped a C bomb against a senior one then hoped he hear it if they happened to crash was a favourite moment…) and the most fascinating was the vibration monitoring on Chinooks.

It had a large number of accelerometers taking data from every part of the drivetrain and could isolate faults down to specific gears inside a transmission with hundreds of them based on the frequency. Along with the rotor tuning system it was a nerds dreams looking through the graphs and interpreting the data…
 
Exactly only Air India have, no one else so that points to either a maintenance issue or specifically Air India not Boeing issue.
Air India have probably ordered the checks/halt on flights because until they know what actually caused it, it's far cheaper to put a hold and do checks than risk another crash.

IIRC it's not exactly unusual, as the cost in lost income is potentially nowhere near what the cost of a lost airframe and compensation will be, especially if it turns out that someone was not doing their job properly, or there is an issue with training.
From memory going back quite a long time there was a case where a US airline lost an engine, it turned out the maintenance staff had been taking a short cut with refitting the engine* after checks/maintenance that resulted in the engine and part of the mount being lifted up too high into the receiving part of the mount, from what I recall when the crash investigators found out what had happened and ordered a check across the fleet they found a bunch of aircraft that needed repairs due to that issue the maintenance staff (at I think one location) had caused.


*It was something along the lines of they were meant to fit a retaining bracket to the aircraft, then using a specific bit of equipment lift the engine into place and connect it to the bracket, instead they were lifting the engine, with bracket already fitted up and it was directly impacting the wing spur or something causing micro fractures - the reason for doing it the other way was because the bracket was basically a sacrificial/replaceable part that was far easy to check and change,
 
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Air India have probably ordered the checks/halt on flights because until they know what actually caused it, it's far cheaper to put a hold and do checks than risk another crash.

IIRC it's not exactly unusual, as the cost in lost income is potentially nowhere near what the cost of a lost airframe and compensation will be, especially if it turns out that someone was not doing their job properly, or there is an issue with training.
From memory going back quite a long time there was a case where a US airline lost an engine, it turned out the maintenance staff had been taking a short cut with refitting the engine* after checks/maintenance that resulted in the engine and part of the mount being lifted up too high into the receiving part of the mount, from what I recall when the crash investigators found out what had happened and ordered a check across the fleet they found a bunch of aircraft that needed repairs due to that issue the maintenance staff (at I think one location) had caused.


*It was something along the lines of they were meant to fit a retaining bracket to the aircraft, then using a specific bit of equipment lift the engine into place and connect it to the bracket, instead they were lifting the engine, with bracket already fitted up and it was directly impacting the wing spur or something causing micro fractures - the reason for doing it the other way was because the bracket was basically a sacrificial/replaceable part that was far easy to check and change,


Human factors - coming up with easier methods of working with which end up causing other problems. Apparently used by two other airlines as well.
 

Human factors - coming up with easier methods of working with which end up causing other problems. Apparently used by two other airlines as well.
Cheers that's the one I was thinking of.

I've seen so many of the Air Crash episodes they tend to blend together a bit ;) (I got a little hooked on the stories after reading about the "Gimli glider" in Readers Digest as a kid).
 
I'd always assumed they would analysed in the US as they have far more expertise in this.
Many Asian/middle eastern countries won't send Boeing black boxes to the US to be examined as they simply don't trust them to not try and cover up issues. Instead it's common for them to be sent to France instead (which is comical as it assumes they wouldn't do anything untoward in the interest of Airbus).
 
I honestly don’t see that at all, they can take off with one engine, why muck about shutting fuel off to a bad engine? They have checklists to follow, they wouldn’t just start doing random things without running through them.
 
You’d have seen some sort of a yawing effect on loss of the first engine. He’s getting ripped apart in the comments for the whole video…
 
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