Euthanasia need to be considered in UK?

[Vexr]

Personally I see state sanctioned assisted dying as a step in a dangerous direction. A step into this type of dystopian nightmare:

Now the door is open, why not have assisted dying for the above reasons? How many confused teens are so anxious about climate change that perhaps un-aliving themselves seems an option? I remember reading about one girl who was 18 or so who decided to kill herself due to the first COVID lockdown being announced.

How long until assisted dying is incentivized with a one off cash payment to your friends or family? Why even go through the rigmarole of putting those poor 20 year olds through the process of getting a diagnosis of depression when really they should just be able to walk in off the street and assert their right to die without the trauma of jumping through needless hoops?

Somehow we got by without legalised assisted dying for who knows how many years. The fact this measure comes under this current monstrous government reinforces the idea in my mind that compassion is not a factor in the state's mind, it's simply about depopulation, wealth redistribution of the deceased, and unburdening itself of its social and healthcare obligations.

 

[Combat squirrel]

Personally I see state sanctioned assisted dying as a step in a dangerous direction. A step into this type of dystopian nightmare:

Now the door is open, why not have assisted dying for the above reasons? How many confused teens are so anxious about climate change that perhaps un-aliving themselves seems an option? I remember reading about one girl who was 18 or so who decided to kill herself due to the first COVID lockdown being announced.

How long until assisted dying is incentivized with a one off cash payment to your friends or family? Why even go through the rigmarole of putting those poor 20 year olds through the process of getting a diagnosis of depression when really they should just be able to walk in off the street and assert their right to die without the trauma of jumping through needless hoops?

Somehow we got by without legalised assisted dying for who knows how many years. The fact this measure comes under this current monstrous government reinforces the idea in my mind that compassion is not a factor in the state's mind, it's simply about depopulation, wealth redistribution of the deceased, and unburdening itself of its social and healthcare obligations.

Really silly and hysterical post to be honest.

Also we live in a capitalistic society which encourages us all to stay alive and consume - if anything legal assisted dying is anti establishment - if everything went south and everyone topped themselves, (A) there isnt enough facilities, drugs and doctors to handle that workload (B) the rich would have no work force.

The real issue is it'll probably take an endless stream of professionals to sign it off - and the reality of the matter, if you look at Switzerland is - only 1 young woman with mental health issues got signed off for that, the barriers are overwhelmingly in place.

Also your post is completely empty of empathy of the suffering dying, clearly you've never witnessed it first hand - 'we got by for who knows how many years' = millions suffered needlessly, painfully and lost their minds until their death became their only escape - slowly dying is HORRIBLE, id not wish it on ANYONE - assisted dying to avoid suffering and maintain dignity is essential for a society - there is absolutely no point in delaying the inevitable for most people who'd use this option who will absolutely 100% die any way - just after they've been through hell.

Why would you put anyone through hell - especially your own family?

 

[Penfold101]

"Thou shalt not kill". LOL

“Unless it’s me doing it by flooding the planet or me telling YOU to do it because I can’t defeat my own enemies. Then it’s absolutely fine…”

 

[tonys]

Personally I see state sanctioned assisted dying as a step in a dangerous direction. A step into this type of dystopian nightmare:

Now the door is open, why not have assisted dying for the above reasons? How many confused teens are so anxious about climate change that perhaps un-aliving themselves seems an option? I remember reading about one girl who was 18 or so who decided to kill herself due to the first COVID lockdown being announced.

How long until assisted dying is incentivized with a one off cash payment to your friends or family? Why even go through the rigmarole of putting those poor 20 year olds through the process of getting a diagnosis of depression when really they should just be able to walk in off the street and assert their right to die without the trauma of jumping through needless hoops?

Somehow we got by without legalised assisted dying for who knows how many years. The fact this measure comes under this current monstrous government reinforces the idea in my mind that compassion is not a factor in the state's mind, it's simply about depopulation, wealth redistribution of the deceased, and unburdening itself of its social and healthcare obligations.

If the depressed 20 year olds really wanted to commit suicide they will, no need for assistance. Most suicide attempts will be a cry for help, as my son has to go to many reported suicide attempts as an Ambulance technician. We have to make the choice available to people but also make sure it's not abused. In my mind it's no different making the choice of being sterilised or not, or having a procedure done or not. It's always your decision at the end of the day.

 

[Priapus]

Personally I see state sanctioned assisted dying as a step in a dangerous direction. A step into this type of dystopian nightmare:

Now the door is open, why not have assisted dying for the above reasons? How many confused teens are so anxious about climate change that perhaps un-aliving themselves seems an option? I remember reading about one girl who was 18 or so who decided to kill herself due to the first COVID lockdown being announced.

How long until assisted dying is incentivized with a one off cash payment to your friends or family? Why even go through the rigmarole of putting those poor 20 year olds through the process of getting a diagnosis of depression when really they should just be able to walk in off the street and assert their right to die without the trauma of jumping through needless hoops?

Somehow we got by without legalised assisted dying for who knows how many years. The fact this measure comes under this current monstrous government reinforces the idea in my mind that compassion is not a factor in the state's mind, it's simply about depopulation, wealth redistribution of the deceased, and unburdening itself of its social and healthcare obligations.

Another Nonsensical post. Have you now actually read what the bill proposes and know you can’t “put your nan down like a dog” ?

 

[StriderX]

Another Nonsensical post. Have you now actually read what the bill proposes and know you can’t “put your nan down like a dog” ?

Once the capitalists get a hold of it and the robots take all the job it'll be booming.

 

[adidan]

Spoiler: Snip

Personally I see state sanctioned assisted dying as a step in a dangerous direction. A step into this type of dystopian nightmare:

Now the door is open, why not have assisted dying for the above reasons? How many confused teens are so anxious about climate change that perhaps un-aliving themselves seems an option? I remember reading about one girl who was 18 or so who decided to kill herself due to the first COVID lockdown being announced.

How long until assisted dying is incentivized with a one off cash payment to your friends or family? Why even go through the rigmarole of putting those poor 20 year olds through the process of getting a diagnosis of depression when really they should just be able to walk in off the street and assert their right to die without the trauma of jumping through needless hoops?

Somehow we got by without legalised assisted dying for who knows how many years. The fact this measure comes under this current monstrous government reinforces the idea in my mind that compassion is not a factor in the state's mind, it's simply about depopulation, wealth redistribution of the deceased, and unburdening itself of its social and healthcare obligations.

I really have no problem with people objecting to the Bill.

I have a problem with people objecting to the Bill on the basis of incorrect information and made up hysteria.

 

[Vexr]

Another Nonsensical post. Have you now actually read what the bill proposes and know you can’t “put your nan down like a dog”

I'm speculating on trends and where it's going. Obviously it would be unacceptable to “put your nan down like a dog” with that wording, but give it time and it'll be entirely normal for the power of attorney holder, if not herself, to do the humane thing and release poor nan from the burden of continuing to live under the suspicion of suffering, or loneliness, or whatever is considered reasonable cause in the future. Plus there'll be the £10,000 climate credit to the family to consider, versus the somehow £50,000+ per year care home costs.

It'll be disguised in whatever flowery ultra humane language you types accept in the coming dystopia, have no fear.

I really have no problem with people objecting to the Bill.

I have a problem with people objecting to the Bill on the basis of incorrect information and made up hysteria.

What a great counter argument. Good for you. Dismiss talk you don't like as made up hysteria and probable far right nonsense

 

[Mr Badger]

Also your post is completely empty of empathy of the suffering dying, clearly you've never witnessed it first hand - 'we got by for who knows how many years' = millions suffered needlessly, painfully and lost their minds until their death became their only escape - slowly dying is HORRIBLE, id not wish it on ANYONE - assisted dying to avoid suffering and maintain dignity is essential for a society - there is absolutely no point in delaying the inevitable for most people who'd use this option who will absolutely 100% die any way - just after they've been through hell.

Indeed. We got by without anaesthetic, antiseptic and antibiotics for a long time too. Not sure that's a good reason for not having those options now.

I'm speculating on trends and where it's going. Obviously it would be unacceptable to “put your nan down like a dog” with that wording, but give it time and it'll be entirely normal for the power of attorney holder, if not herself, to do the humane thing and release poor nan from the burden of continuing to live under the suspicion of suffering, or loneliness, or whatever is considered reasonable cause in the future. Plus there'll be the £10,000 climate credit to the family to consider, versus the somehow £50,000+ per year care home costs.

It'll be disguised in whatever flowery ultra humane language you types accept in the coming dystopia, have no fear.



What a great counter argument. Good for you. Dismiss talk you don't like as made up hysteria and probable far right nonsense

Your approach assumes massive mission creep and ultimately results in never doing anything positive for fear of possible long term negative consequences. Any number of laws and rights could be dismissed due to potential "what if" scenarios.

Let's apply it to other issues. Save the Whales? But what if they eat all the food in the sea and evolve to come onto the land?

 

[tonys]

I'm speculating on trends and where it's going. Obviously it would be unacceptable to “put your nan down like a dog” with that wording, but give it time and it'll be entirely normal for the power of attorney holder, if not herself, to do the humane thing and release poor nan from the burden of continuing to live under the suspicion of suffering, or loneliness, or whatever is considered reasonable cause in the future. Plus there'll be the £10,000 climate credit to the family to consider, versus the somehow £50,000+ per year care home costs.

It'll be disguised in whatever flowery ultra humane language you types accept in the coming dystopia, have no fear.



What a great counter argument. Good for you. Dismiss talk you don't like as made up hysteria and probable far right nonsense

I've read hundreds of Sci-fi books and watched numerous films, yes we could go down the "Soylent Green" route in the future but equally we could go "Star Trek". We don't know what it will be like that is why safeguards are put in place.

 

[Vexr]

Indeed. We got by without anaesthetic, antiseptic and antibiotics for a long time too. Not sure that's a good reason for not having those options now.



Your approach assumes massive mission creep and ultimately results in never doing anything positive for fear of possible long term negative consequences. Any number of laws and rights could be dismissed due to potential "what if" scenarios.

Let's apply it to other issues. Save the Whales? But what if they eat all the food in the sea and evolve to come onto the land?

The mission creep has started right now. Here it's by the government who takes away the winter fuel allowance (but gives it back at the height of summer, probably pending some excuse to take it away again before winter hits). The Hippocratic oath of the promise to do no harm is ending. The Christian restraints on suicide and assisted suicide are being dissolved.

I've read hundreds of Sci-fi books and watched numerous films, yes we could go down the "Soylent Green" route in the future but equally we could go "Star Trek". We don't know what it will be like that is why safeguards are put in place.

I'm of the opinion there is 0% chance we'll be going down the Star Trek route for a multitude of reasons.

As for the rest of you Harold Shipman type ghouls, I suggest you get creative and not rely on the state to do your dirty work, either to yourself or others, and face the karmic consequences.

 

[Penfold101]

face the karmic consequences.

Luckily, those aren’t a thing.

 

[tonys]

Luckily, those aren’t a thing.

I thought it was a mispeling of comic to be honest

 

[tonys]

The mission creep has started right now. Here it's by the government who takes away the winter fuel allowance (but gives it back at the height of summer, probably pending some excuse to take it away again before winter hits). The Hippocratic oath of the promise to do no harm is ending. The Christian restraints on suicide and assisted suicide are being dissolved.



I'm of the opinion there is 0% chance we'll be going down the Star Trek route for a multitude of reasons.

As for the rest of you Harold Shipman type ghouls, I suggest you get creative and not rely on the state to do your dirty work, either to yourself or others, and face the karmic consequences.

And I thought I was pessimistic, you do realise we are on about personal choice here?

 

[Penfold101]

I thought it was a mispeling of comic to be honest

Nah, that’s the current state of America.

 

[tonys]

Nah, that’s the current state of America.

Just hilarious isn't it.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I'm speculating on trends and where it's going. Obviously it would be unacceptable to “put your nan down like a dog” with that wording, but give it time and it'll be entirely normal for the power of attorney holder, if not herself, to do the humane thing and release poor nan from the burden of continuing to live under the suspicion of suffering, or loneliness, or whatever is considered reasonable cause in the future. Plus there'll be the £10,000 climate credit to the family to consider, versus the somehow £50,000+ per year care home costs.

It'll be disguised in whatever flowery ultra humane language you types accept in the coming dystopia, have no fear.

I don't think you realise how conservative this country still is. Its 2025 and this was expected to fail and its been a bit of a surprise that it passed. I would be amazed if any of what you claim will happen in my lifetime and I'm 54.

I think we are facing a potential dystopia with the dangers of AI but I'm not worried we're going to be putting people down right, left and centre. I hope the law is expanded so people facing a slow death through a dementia diagnosis can have the choice to end their life before it takes their mind. I've watched several family member go through dementia and no way I'm going that way, I'll end it in whatever way I can if the medical option isn't available to me. Anyone with diseases that leave them with a terrible quality of life and no chance of a cure should have the choice.

 

[Mr Badger]

I don't think you realise how conservative this country still is. Its 2025 and this was expected to fail and its been a bit of a surprise that it passed. I would be amazed if any of what you claim will happen in my lifetime and I'm 54.

I think we are facing a potential dystopia with the dangers of AI but I'm not worried we're going to be putting people down right, left and centre. I hope the law is expanded so people facing a slow death through a dementia diagnosis can have the choice to end their life before it takes their mind. I've watched several family member go through dementia and no way I'm going that way, I'll end it in whatever way I can if the medical option isn't available to me. Anyone with diseases that leave them with a terrible quality of life and no chance of a cure should have the choice.

Yes, some sort of living will with appropriate opt outs and final medical checks in place to verify that you are past the chosen point with no prospect of recovery.

I spent some time visiting a secure dementia unit and it was pretty grim, with most of the residents at the zombie stage of being slumped in a chair or bed all day, waiting for death. It would be reassuring to know you could choose to avoid that end. Currently the only way is a preemptive suicide whilst you still have the capacity - not fair on you or your loved ones.

 

[Vexr]

Vexr said:
face the karmic consequences.

Luckily, those aren’t a thing.

Okay. Do it.

Depressed teens in a snit and 20 somethings being able to access MAID (Medical Assistance In Dying) in the pioneering nation of Canada is apparently not triggering any alarm bells on this forum.

 

[tonys]

Okay. Do it.

Depressed teens in a snit and 20 somethings being able to access MAID (Medical Assistance In Dying) in the pioneering nation of Canada is apparently not triggering any alarm bells on this forum.

No, because believe it or not depressed teenagers and older people are not a new thing, neither is suicide. What you are seeing is a progression of views.