Euthanasia need to be considered in UK?

[SpellowHouse]

From when and for how long should they be accountable? The UK pension system has always been paid directly from current receipts ever since. It's inception. The only changes have been for pension age and eligibility. Blaming your favourite bugbear politician such as Thatcher does not help because every government has had the option to change it and none have. However this is off topic to the thread subject.

I'm blaming all politicians. Had it been a company, someone would have ended up in jail for spending the pension pot. Because it's politicians, then it's the peoples fault? I mean it just makes common sense that you don't spend pension contributions.

 

[Mr Badger]

I'm blaming all politicians. Had it been a company, someone would have ended up in jail for spending the pension pot. Because it's politicians, then it's the peoples fault? I mean it just makes common sense that you don't spend pension contributions.

You are still making an invalid comparison. If you really don't want to try to understand this matter, then there isn't much point in responding. Plus it's getting off topic again, so perhaps take it to a separate thread.

 

[SpellowHouse]

You are still making an invalid comparison. If you really don't want to try to understand this matter, then there isn't much point in responding. Plus it's getting off topic again, so perhaps take it to a separate thread.

I don't understand your point at all. I am not making a comparison. You seem to be completely misunderstanding what I am saying. And if you want the "sub-topic" to go away, then stop commenting about it!

 

[Mr Badger]

I don't understand your point at all. I am not making a comparison. You seem to be completely misunderstanding what I am saying. And if you want the "sub-topic" to go away, then stop commenting about it!

Leaving incorrect posts unchallenged is how misinformation spreads. A couple of people have tried to point out where you are going wrong, but to no avail. I'm not going over it again as that will most likely take a Euthanasia thread further into in a pointless back and forth about the differences between state benefits/pensions and private pension schemes.

 

[Mr Jack]

I'm blaming all politicians. Had it been a company, someone would have ended up in jail for spending the pension pot. Because it's politicians, then it's the peoples fault? I mean it just makes common sense that you don't spend pension contributions.

That's not how the system works. The reason it doesn't work that way is because they wanted to provide pension cover for everyone not just those who started their working lives to coincide with the scheme being introduced so it had to start being paid out before there was any pot to accrue the value needed to pay out. The UK isn't unique in this, it's also how public Pensions work in France, Germany, Italy, and Spain among others.

 

[SpellowHouse]

Leaving incorrect posts unchallenged is how misinformation spreads. A couple of people have tried to point out where you are going wrong, but to no avail. I'm not going over it again as that will most likely take a Euthanasia thread further into in a pointless back and forth about the differences between state benefits/pensions and private pension schemes.

It amazes me that you think I am "going wrong". I'm not. I am fully aware of why the government did what they did, or at least the reasons they gave, but that's not the point. They collected money from NI, and they didn't save a penny of it. I am not arguing as to whether it was enough or not, what I am saying is that they saved absolutely nothing, when they could have done. What makes it worse is that they have predicted the rise the number of pensioners for many decades, and still they did nothing.

That's not how the system works. The reason it doesn't work that way is because they wanted to provide pension cover for everyone not just those who started their working lives to coincide with the scheme being introduced so it had to start being paid out before there was any pot to accrue the value needed to pay out. The UK isn't unique in this, it's also how public Pensions work in France, Germany, Italy, and Spain among others.

But that's my point, it should have been done differently. As I said just now, they new this was coming, they should have put aside money instead of just spending everything. It doesn't matter if they didn't save everything they needed, but they should have at least tried, to alleviate the problem now, so, no, I don't accept that argument at all. And just because France, Germany, Italy, and Spain among others, did the same, didn't mean that we had to.

Seriously, that is my last comment on it. You may disagree, but I am afraid you can't tell me I am wrong!! So, stop trying! The government should have put money aside.

Anyway, as I just said, that's my last comment on this.

 

[Mr Jack]

It amazes me that you think I am "going wrong". I'm not. I am fully aware of why the government did what they did, or at least the reasons they gave, but that's not the point. They collected money from NI, and they didn't save a penny of it. I am not arguing as to whether it was enough or not, what I am saying is that they saved absolutely nothing, when they could have done. What makes it worse is that they have predicted the rise the number of pensioners for many decades, and still they did nothing.

There was never any money from NI to save. Never. It was never a saving or investment scheme. It was always collected to fund immediate payments. You might have a point about governments not forward planning but trying to blame it on not saving from a scheme that never had anything to save is bananas and undermines your point.

When created, it was a perfectly reasonable way for pensions to work. They didn't know that people would start living so much longer, or that birth rates were going to fall. You're right that sometime about 1980 or so, people needed to start thinking about the solution to this, instead we did the reverse with Lawson's bonkers raid on company pension funds and then Brown later compounding that error. At least there was a push to get more people into contributory schemes later, but these are poor gravy compared to the earlier schemes. Without these failures, fewer people would be relying on state pensions and the pressure on tax revenues from pensions would be lower.

Still, it's not like saving scheme based pensions are magic, they still operate on the same principle of taking money from the productive economy and giving it to people who are minimally productive themselves. The mechanisms are different but the overall impact on the economy is not that different.

 

[Mr Badger]

It amazes me that you think I am "going wrong". I'm not. I am fully aware of why the government did what they did, or at least the reasons they gave, but that's not the point. They collected money from NI, and they didn't save a penny of it. I am not arguing as to whether it was enough or not, what I am saying is that they saved absolutely nothing, when they could have done. What makes it worse is that they have predicted the rise the number of pensioners for many decades, and still they did nothing.



But that's my point, it should have been done differently. As I said just now, they new this was coming, they should have put aside money instead of just spending everything. It doesn't matter if they didn't save everything they needed, but they should have at least tried, to alleviate the problem now, so, no, I don't accept that argument at all. And just because France, Germany, Italy, and Spain among others, did the same, didn't mean that we had to.

Seriously, that is my last comment on it. You may disagree, but I am afraid you can't tell me I am wrong!! So, stop trying! The government should have put money aside.

Anyway, as I just said, that's my last comment on this.

Simple response: You are wrong because you refuse to accept the reality of what actually happened.

I started to write a longer response, but I think it's pointless. Suffice to say, for the system to work in the way you want, people would have needed to pay a lot more money into the system than they did, whether as specific state pension contributions or as increased tax/NI contributions.