Spec me a BEV

[R.C.Anderson]

Currently have a Skoda Karoq 1.5 DSG. which is nearing 3 years old, so I feel it's time to look at a new car, and really fancy a BEV.

I've been doing a bit of research into vehicles that are a similar size, with similar tech, but I wanted the opinions of other people who might have done similar/know the market better to suggest vehicles to look at/to avoid.

The main features that I want that don't seem as common are:

• Heated front seats
• Heated Sseering wheel
• Adaptive cruise control
• Reversing camera
• Matrix LED headlights
• Powered tailgate
• A similar size luggage space as the Karoq
• 0-60 in ~ 8s or less - similar to my Karoq, but it does feel a little slow at times.

The top 2 are less important if preconditioning work well, but would still be nice.

A few options I've found in a similar price bracket are:

• Skoda Elroq
• Skoda Enyaq
• Hyundai Kona Electric (my parents in law have a mild hybrid version that's much smaller than the karoq, but it seems the never BEV is considerably larger?)
• Hyundai Ioniq 5
• Ford Explorer
• MGS5 (I drove a ZS when I was buying my current car and was not keen, as it felt like it was just unable to put the power down & felt unstable)
• BYD Atto 3 (I've been able to find very little information on what feature this actually has)

So, what have you got? What can you suggest?

 

[Demon]

Whats the budget?

The Elroq/Kona/Atto 3 are all smaller than the others and would be smaller than your Karoq. The rest are very much of a muchness, but all have the options lottery if you want everything..

Basically, the MGS5 although new has £10k off list as they went for mid year targets..

But I'd test drive / sit in a lot of those listed..

I would also add
VW ID.4
Audi Q4 Etron

and of course Tesla Model Y.. The Model Y AWD Long Range is great VFM IMO, extremely quick (sub 5s to 60) and everything is standard (heat front and rear seats, pan roof, premium audio) and they have no servicing requirements (no getting fleeced annually/biennially).. very reliable and have access to the most public chargers of all brands with probably the least stressful experience when public charging/long trips of any EV if that is important.

There isn't really anything to avoid, all cater for different wants/needs..

 

[Calpol]

I think the Enyaq is probably closest to the level of utility you have in the Karoq. You'll likely want an iv80 or 85 as they have the bigger battery and therefore longer range. It's got by far the best boot in the market but there are lot of used out there which don't have heated seats/wheel. Full matrix lights are even less common from my research. We've just picked up an ID.4, 2 year old one with 9000 miles. It gets mixed reviews but honestly it's very good and is specced quite well. Interestingly Karoq was on our list but Mrs felt it was too boring and she has a snobby attitude to SKoda.

The only thing I would recommend is a test drive on the roads you frequent. I went from driving a 5 year old diesel Passat which was a comfortable old barge to the ID.4 and I'm taking some time to get used to the ride. Our's has 20" wheels and the ride is very different to a manual estate car. The Enyaq also has quite a hard ride on the bigger wheels. Great on a smooth highway but mouch more fidgety on rural roads. The Explorer apparently handles a bit better but there are less used options around as it's less than 1 year old. Bear in mind that the Q4, ID.4, Enyaq and Explorer are essentially the same car.

You don't spec a budget or purchase method so advice limited until that is known.

 

[R.C.Anderson]

Thanks both

I didn't realise I didn't put a budget in... I generally buy cars new with PCP, on a 4-year contact, but look to swap out at about 3 (equity dependant). All inclusive (inc VED, fuel etc inc), I want to be looking at ~£7k/year at the most, but could stretch a bit if it's particularly nice. I know that doesn't make it particularly easy to find what is/isn't applicable, as from my calcs a Elroq Edition 60 has a OTR of ~£34.5k, with a per year cost of ~£6.4k, but a BYD Atto 3 design has a OTR of £37.7k, but with a per year cost of ~£5.4k.

I have briefly consiered an ID4 & Q4 eTron, but generally discounted them, as when I was looking at my Karoq, I looked at the VW & Audi equivalents & decided it wasn't worth paying the extra for the badge, for what was an otherwise very similar car. I'll definitely take a closer look at them though, in case they work out similarly (e.g. can get away with a lower trim on the Audi than the Skoda, which makes the prices similar.

Tesla, I've discounted straight away, I have no interest in supporting the brand, and when I've sat in a couple (admitadly model S, rather than Y), they just look & feel like tat imo.

Maybe worth a consideration 2nd hand, but the last few cars I've looked at, it actually worked out more expensive to buy a <2 year old 2nd hand car, than to buy new, mainly due to the deposit contributions & much lower interest rates available.

 

[Calpol]

There is no way I'd buy an EV new on PCP. The depreciation is too hard at the moment. Even with the OEM subsidy (finance deals) I don't see the value but everyone is different. You will get a nearly new car for far less. Used is the way to go for an EV unless you have too much money.

ID4 example - MAtch Pro 77kwh
NEw PCP 0% deal, £4000 finance deposit allowance
36 months 30000 miles
Residual value c£17.5k
List Price £45k
Depreciation = £26.5k less £4k deposit allowance = £22.5k/3 = £7.5k/year
Plus increased VED in years 2-6 so more like £8k year

Used 2023 Life Pro 77kwh 9000 miles ( based on what I bought 2 weeks ago)
Price £22000
Trade in VW Passat 2020 = £13000
Balance = £9000
I'm guessing that the car will be worth about £12k in three years or at 40000 miles - The cheapest 2021 45000 mile one is c£17,5k on Autotrader so £12k is very conservative.
BAsically its costing less than half what you'll pay for a new PCP plus no luxury car tax VED.

Financing - even if you get a bank loan for the difference between the Karoq value then you are probably borrowing c£8k or 9k. Even at 9% APR that will cost you £1300 in interest so you'll still be quids in.

 

[Mysterae_]

There is no way I'd buy an EV new on PCP. The depreciation is too hard at the moment. Even with the OEM subsidy (finance deals) I don't see the value but everyone is different. You will get a nearly new car for far less. Used is the way to go for an EV unless you have too much money.

ID4 example - MAtch Pro 77kwh
NEw PCP 0% deal, £4000 finance deposit allowance
36 months 30000 miles
Residual value c£17.5k
List Price £45k
Depreciation = £26.5k less £4k deposit allowance = £22.5k/3 = £7.5k/year
Plus increased VED in years 2-6 so more like £8k year

Used 2023 Life Pro 77kwh 9000 miles ( based on what I bought 2 weeks ago)
Price £22000
Trade in VW Passat 2020 = £13000
Balance = £9000
I'm guessing that the car will be worth about £12k in three years or at 40000 miles - The cheapest 2021 45000 mile one is c£17,5k on Autotrader so £12k is very conservative.
BAsically its costing less than half what you'll pay for a new PCP plus no luxury car tax VED.

Financing - even if you get a bank loan for the difference between the Karoq value then you are probably borrowing c£8k or 9k. Even at 9% APR that will cost you £1300 in interest so you'll still be quids in.

I agree. The depreciation curve for EVs is worse than petrol or diesel cars but that may flip sometime in the future.

That aside, PCP or leasing is just another subscription model from the 'you'll own nothing and be happy' economics. However that's fine if you are clearly aware of it and are happy with it. Getting a new car every 3 years is tempting though but you'll certainly pay for it!

 

[Hawk Tuah]

So, what have you got? What can you suggest?

From your description, it sounds like you'd really like Q8 Etron. They're not available new anymore, but there will be plenty of 2 year old ones coming up for sale shortly. It's a class above the cars you've listed. That did reflect in the new price, however used models are really good value.

There are also the standard Etron's about. However the Q8 has a bigger battery across the range, slightly better efficiency, and IMO looks a lot better.

I love mine. Been a brilliant car.

For example.... https://quotes.carwow.co.uk/deals/bfaddd4a6be2ded1c73ddf1fd98b2594

 

[Journey]

I generally buy cars new with PCP, on a 4-year contact, but look to swap out at about 3 (equity dependant). All inclusive (inc VED, fuel etc inc), I want to be looking at ~£7k/year at the most, but could stretch a bit if it's particularly nice. I know that doesn't make it particularly easy to find what is/isn't applicable, as from my calcs a Elroq Edition 60 has a OTR of ~£34.5k, with a per year cost of ~£6.4k, but a BYD Atto 3 design has a OTR of £37.7k, but with a per year cost of ~£5.4k.

If you must buy new why not just PCH if not keeping it? You can pick up a Kia EV6 for ~£410pm nothing up front, on a 36 month deal, that is based on 10k miles PA. Elroq 60 is ~£359 same 10k PA again nothing upfront. Enyaq 85x Sportline is ~£455 with 10k PA, nothing upfront. Even a Polestar 4 is only ~£570 per month on 10k PA.

Second hand market is where the deals really are, but if you must buy new then PCP is a currently pretty much the worst option for most cars.

 

[R.C.Anderson]

TBH I hadn't compared like for like depreciation rates, just PCP deals for a new karoq vs BEVs & there didn't seem to be a massive difference in total cost over ~3 years (although this is including fuel costs, so does benefit the BEVs).

In terms of PCH vs PCP, I have considered PCH previously, but the last couple of cars I've had, I've ended up better off with PCP due to much higher residual values compared to the GFV. E.g. I had a Karoq before this one & ended up selling at 3 years (of a 4 year term), with ~£5k equity in it, which took over 1/3rd from the actual cost of ownership, and that's even with doing more miles than on the PCP deal.
Looks like I could do with exploring PCH options though with a BEV, as it seems like it might be more beneficial, although I'm less familiar with the terms etc, and do like the added flexibility of PCP in terms of when I can change, how many miles I've done etc.

 

[R.C.Anderson]

From your description, it sounds like you'd really like Q8 Etron. They're not available new anymore, but there will be plenty of 2 year old ones coming up for sale shortly. It's a class above the cars you've listed. That did reflect in the new price, however used models are really good value.

There are also the standard Etron's about. However the Q8 has a bigger battery across the range, slightly better efficiency, and IMO looks a lot better.

I love mine. Been a brilliant car.

For example.... https://quotes.carwow.co.uk/deals/bfaddd4a6be2ded1c73ddf1fd98b2594

I'll take a look at a used Q8 Etron, wasn't something I'd considered, but might work out good VFM

 

[Journey]

Looks like I could do with exploring PCH options though with a BEV, as it seems like it might be more beneficial, although I'm less familiar with the terms etc, and do like the added flexibility of PCP in terms of when I can change, how many miles I've done etc.

For PCH, you do the thing that costs least per annum, so if 2 years is the best by a large margin then take that deal. As for milage, get the cost per mile upfront for excess. A lot of times it costs the same or less to pay the excess at the end, and you can usually do 100% more than the agreement before it goes up.

E.g. if you think to do between 8k and 10k, then you'd take the 8k, and if you averaged 9k per year over 3 years you pay the 3k miles at the end, and if you went to 11k same thing, but you are paying for the extra 9k miles at the end.

Flexibility is relative to cost sometimes, but it's hard finding a PCP that will beat a PCH for BEV's from new.

 

[jpaul]

Other European contestant ? renault scenic e-tech : efficiency(with heatp, too) / attractive (in suv/cross segment) / ++android automotive / affordable insurance(ie parts/maintenance) /
renault have good residuals on megane so may carry over.

 

[Journey]

Looks like I could do with exploring PCH options though with a BEV, as it seems like it might be more beneficial, although I'm less familiar with the terms etc, and do like the added flexibility of PCP in terms of when I can change, how many miles I've done etc.

For PCH, you do the thing that costs least per annum, so if 2 years is the best by a large margin then take that deal, same for 3 years, four can sometimes look appealing but then you are getting out of warranty for some manufacturers and needing MOT's etc. As for mileage, get the cost per mile upfront for excess. A lot of times it costs the same or less to pay the excess at the end, and you can usually do 100% more than the agreement before it goes up.

E.g. if you think to do between 8k and 10k, then you'd take the 8k, and if you averaged 9k per year over 3 years you pay the 3k miles at the end, and if you went to 11k same thing, but you are paying for the extra 9k miles at the end. In then end the money is in your bank/pocket not the can finance company all the way until it needs to be parted with, and they don't give you money back for miles you do not use

Flexibility is relative to cost sometimes, but it's hard finding a PCP that will beat a PCH for BEV's from new.

 

[R.C.Anderson]

Thanks all for the help & recomendation for PCH instead.

I'm off to test drive the Skoda Enyaq 85x tomorrow, as the PCH prices for this are pretty much too good to pass up & will most likely be the vehicle I go for (assuming all goes well tomorrow!). As tempted as I've been with a polestar, I'm not sure I can convince myself it's worth spending extra (although this might change!)

 

[Demon]

Thanks all for the help & recomendation for PCH instead.

I'm off to test drive the Skoda Enyaq 85x tomorrow, as the PCH prices for this are pretty much too good to pass up & will most likely be the vehicle I go for (assuming all goes well tomorrow!). As tempted as I've been with a polestar, I'm not sure I can convince myself it's worth spending extra (although this might change!)

Did you test drive the Enyaq? I actually prefer it over the sister car, the ID.4, it’s got a nicer cabin design and material finish by a country mile..

 

[R.C.Anderson]

Did you test drive the Enyaq? I actually prefer it over the sister car, the ID.4, it’s got a nicer cabin design and material finish by a country mile..

I did, yea, and I really liked the car. Good space, nicely composed on the road, but not too firm, handled well & was resppnsive.

Although it's ended up being the only BEV I actually test drove, I found a good deal on it (12+23PCH @£316/month), I had decided that the test drive was more of a confirmation that I liked it & would be happy with it, rather than a comparison.

As I was happy with it, I've placed the order & should be recieving it in 2-4 weeks!

 

[Journey]

I did, yea, and I really liked the car. Good space, nicely composed on the road, but not too firm, handled well & was resppnsive.

Although it's ended up being the only BEV I actually test drove, I found a good deal on it (12+23PCH @£316/month), I had decided that the test drive was more of a confirmation that I liked it & would be happy with it, rather than a comparison.

As I was happy with it, I've placed the order & should be recieving it in 2-4 weeks!

Why did you go with a 12 upfront, was there a significant saving vs. a 3+23 or similar? Nearly £4k upfront a is decent chunk of cash that could be sat in a bank earning interest and drawing down the payments against for the first 8+ months?

Nice that you enjoyed the car though.

 

[R.C.Anderson]

Why did you go with a 12 upfront, was there a significant saving vs. a 3+23 or similar? Nearly £4k upfront a is decent chunk of cash that could be sat in a bank earning interest and drawing down the payments against for the first 8+ months?

Nice that you enjoyed the car though.

Yea, it was a bit over £400 more to do a 3+23, and I should have that sort of amount of equity in my current vehicle, so the upfront cost isn't too much of a problem for me to save that cash.

 

[SPArton]

Very interesting depreciation curve on the first post.
So are we in agreement that buying a BEV at 2yo is the same from a financial loss/risk perspective as buying a 2yo ICE car?