EV general discussion
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Soldato
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How so? i've not read it properly yet only seen a few headlines.£3750 grant for certain cars under £37000
The way it’s written seems to be a way to kick the MGs and BYDs in the nuts
£650m scheme plus another £63m for 'infrastructure'.£3750 grant for certain cars under £37000
The way it’s written seems to be a way to kick the MGs and BYDs in the nuts
I guess it's small change in the wider scheme of things but still more money when the country is apparently in the red.
Be interesting to see if it makes a difference and whether it's Joe public that actually makes the savings.
Yeah I've bought these just haven't fitted.
There's a manufacturing emissions element to eligibility.
Soldato
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Ah ok i didn't see that, is the idea that the Chinese manufactures wouldn't be able to meet those targets or prove it?
I guess things like the Renault 5 would score well then as that seemed to be set up very well for minimal travel and locally sourced components so wonder if that'll get the full discount?
It is interesting though as a country we seem completely skint, i understand we need to transition to greener things and im a big fan of EV's but it does seem a strange place to funnel so much money when there's so many worthy places crying out for any kind of cash.
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Soldato
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Its based om Science Based Targets.
The grant will only be offered to manufacturers that have verified science-based targets (SBTs) for carbon reduction and that have emissions scores below a threshold that the government has also yet to define.
The grant will only be offered to manufacturers that have verified science-based targets (SBTs) for carbon reduction and that have emissions scores below a threshold that the government has also yet to define.
According to the article they can start applying from tomorrow and discounts should begin to be seen at dealers in a couple of weeks so surely they've got these thresholds all worked out...right?
(or is this another kneejerk policy that no ones totally thought through yet?)
(or is this another kneejerk policy that no ones totally thought through yet?)
We bought our ID.3 literally weeks after the last scheme ended, all VW did was instantly set their new RRPs £2500 cheaper.. so from a consumers point of view it made zero difference..
It'll be interesting to see if RRPs magically increase for those models under the £37k limit as the manufacturer just hoovers the cash directly from the government and not to the consumer..
It'll be interesting to see if RRPs magically increase for those models under the £37k limit as the manufacturer just hoovers the cash directly from the government and not to the consumer..
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Real selling prices (aka ‘discounts’ removed from) of eligible vehicles to rise by £3000 in 3… 2… 1…
Personally I think it’s completely unnecessary and it will have the effect of increasing margins for manufacturers rather than materially reducing prices for consumers. If that’s the goal, fine, then just be honest about it. I’m very much aware that manufacturers have been complaining about unsustainable discounts on EVs.
If they were to do anything they should have started by putting another £1k on year 0 VED for ICE cars and slowly ramp it up.
The real reason adoption is sluggish isn’t the RRP, it’s general ignorance, general FUD or a very real (or perceived barrier) on charging the thing for a sensible price.
One of the issues with private buyers buying new EVs is the residuals, a grant is just going to trash them further just like the BIK incentives are currently trashing them.
If they really wanted to move the needle, £650m on affordable type 2 chargers targeted at pockets of the country that don’t have driveways and social housing would have actually done something.
Personally I think it’s completely unnecessary and it will have the effect of increasing margins for manufacturers rather than materially reducing prices for consumers. If that’s the goal, fine, then just be honest about it. I’m very much aware that manufacturers have been complaining about unsustainable discounts on EVs.
If they were to do anything they should have started by putting another £1k on year 0 VED for ICE cars and slowly ramp it up.
The real reason adoption is sluggish isn’t the RRP, it’s general ignorance, general FUD or a very real (or perceived barrier) on charging the thing for a sensible price.
One of the issues with private buyers buying new EVs is the residuals, a grant is just going to trash them further just like the BIK incentives are currently trashing them.
If they really wanted to move the needle, £650m on affordable type 2 chargers targeted at pockets of the country that don’t have driveways and social housing would have actually done something.
Personally I think subsidised/interest free financing for used EVs would have been the best use of the money.
Incresases interest in used EVs > increases value of used EVs > Increases residuals for new cars > cheaper monthlies for new cars > more EVs sold and actually helps less well off people who don't buy new cars compared to these new car schemes which are a bung to rich people let's be honest.
Incresases interest in used EVs > increases value of used EVs > Increases residuals for new cars > cheaper monthlies for new cars > more EVs sold and actually helps less well off people who don't buy new cars compared to these new car schemes which are a bung to rich people let's be honest.
Keep reading about how the availability of chargers is the biggest blocker. As someone who has an EV, unless in a pinch I won't use public chargers outside of Tesla. Tesla iirc are £0.52 ppkw, most public chargers are more like £0.85 ppkw, makes it rather extortionate to top up on the go.
Worth noting the Tesla network is superb if you have a compatible car (fwiw I don't have a Tesla, I have a Polestar) - using it I've driven from Oxford to Scotland and back no dramas
Only once had someone with a Tesla moaning at me that the chargers are for Teslas only and I should move so he could charge 
Worth noting the Tesla network is superb if you have a compatible car (fwiw I don't have a Tesla, I have a Polestar) - using it I've driven from Oxford to Scotland and back no dramas
Only once had someone with a Tesla moaning at me that the chargers are for Teslas only and I should move so he could charge 
Soldato
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The BIK 'trashing' in reality is just simply lots of EV's coming off lease at the same, it was the same for PHEV's aswell. But yeah i largely agree. Challenging the FUD is the issue, the cost of the car is irrelevant, in the last 20 years its only ever been about what car you can get for £x a month.
For everyone I know, just invest the £630M in charging infrastructure, and start pushing for a common open charging network interface and force manufacturers to support it..
I was reminded how absolutely abysmal public charging can be when I had the genius idea of trying a quick DC charge in the i3s we picked up (above).. so headed off to a fairly new Osprey site and
1. It was advertised as having 8/12 available in the electroverse app.. But it turned out to only have 5 CCS.. so 4 occupied, only 1 CCS free.. That's an app problem of course, but its backwards.. It knows I only have CCS, I've even filtered by CCS and yet it still makes you think it's some superhub..
2. It was £0.82p/kwh pre any app discounts (I used electroverse in the end, that ended up appox £0.75p/kwh) which is ludicrous
3. Everyone was having issues getting it going, but after many attempts, most got it going.. the issues I spotted (and some happened to me)
a. Using an app ended up with contraindications on the chargers display, I accidentally aborted my first charge as the app said plug in first, then click in the app to start a charge.. the charger said it was communicating and then said press 'start'.. which cancelled the session which unbeknownst to me had actually started, but both the app and charger had not indicated this at all.
b. The charger had very unclear instructions and yet strict rules.. people plugging in then using their card had errors.. yet using the app you do it the other way around..
Some poor US Guy in an e208 was very stressed out because it was his first long trip in an EV (he comes over for months at a time as he has a second home here) and it took 8 attempts because he couldn't install the Osprey app due to it not being on his apple store (which he said was common for him as he uses roaming when over here..) and the charger had almost no instructions.. all it needed to say was "Please ensure your car is unplugged and then press start, if using an App, please plug in first and then initiate the charge on the app" and then ensure that the screen was updated correctly when the app had initiated..
We all know Tesla lead the way and show people how it can be done, but the answer should not be 'Just get a Tesla'.. my last Tesla charge was £0.37p/kwh late afternoon and as seamless as it always is..
The Gov't need to mandate a much more open platform, I thought they were doing this, but I see no real world evidence that all manufactures of car and charger must support a common open interface, it still feels really fragmented and backwards..
/rant
On a positive note, our local 'transport hub' has well over 100 7.4kw chargers for people to charge whilst parked.. but it's still over 50p/kwh which is nuts..
I was reminded how absolutely abysmal public charging can be when I had the genius idea of trying a quick DC charge in the i3s we picked up (above).. so headed off to a fairly new Osprey site and
1. It was advertised as having 8/12 available in the electroverse app.. But it turned out to only have 5 CCS.. so 4 occupied, only 1 CCS free.. That's an app problem of course, but its backwards.. It knows I only have CCS, I've even filtered by CCS and yet it still makes you think it's some superhub..
2. It was £0.82p/kwh pre any app discounts (I used electroverse in the end, that ended up appox £0.75p/kwh) which is ludicrous
3. Everyone was having issues getting it going, but after many attempts, most got it going.. the issues I spotted (and some happened to me)
a. Using an app ended up with contraindications on the chargers display, I accidentally aborted my first charge as the app said plug in first, then click in the app to start a charge.. the charger said it was communicating and then said press 'start'.. which cancelled the session which unbeknownst to me had actually started, but both the app and charger had not indicated this at all.
b. The charger had very unclear instructions and yet strict rules.. people plugging in then using their card had errors.. yet using the app you do it the other way around..
Some poor US Guy in an e208 was very stressed out because it was his first long trip in an EV (he comes over for months at a time as he has a second home here) and it took 8 attempts because he couldn't install the Osprey app due to it not being on his apple store (which he said was common for him as he uses roaming when over here..) and the charger had almost no instructions.. all it needed to say was "Please ensure your car is unplugged and then press start, if using an App, please plug in first and then initiate the charge on the app" and then ensure that the screen was updated correctly when the app had initiated..
We all know Tesla lead the way and show people how it can be done, but the answer should not be 'Just get a Tesla'.. my last Tesla charge was £0.37p/kwh late afternoon and as seamless as it always is..
The Gov't need to mandate a much more open platform, I thought they were doing this, but I see no real world evidence that all manufactures of car and charger must support a common open interface, it still feels really fragmented and backwards..
/rant
On a positive note, our local 'transport hub' has well over 100 7.4kw chargers for people to charge whilst parked.. but it's still over 50p/kwh which is nuts..
could you have just paid with a contactless card (even at petrol stations I'm not going to argue about paying an additional 7p/litre at a convenient garage)
government maybe needs to dig in the zev fines - if the manufactures just make additional margin on the ev's to offset the fines then that is self defeating,
and whilst fleet/bik purchases will get bigger discounts than private purchases, they are still paying.
government maybe needs to dig in the zev fines - if the manufactures just make additional margin on the ev's to offset the fines then that is self defeating,
and whilst fleet/bik purchases will get bigger discounts than private purchases, they are still paying.
Interest free financing.
VAT rate cut to 5% for public charging.
The return of the £750 EVSE grant (when this was a thing, most manufacturers bundled a charger install in with the car).
Legislation & funding to support the installation of charging gullys where there is no off-street parking.
These would all have been very helpful from the consumer side.
Contactless worked, but only if you didn't plug in first, which is the opposite of using the app, it would fail unless you had it plugged in first..
As far as I know, everyone managed to eventually start a charge, but no one got it on the first attempt..
All of these use the common protocols and interfaces what you're talking about here is instructions and software which are totally different.
Everyone can use the internet but not everyone needs to use Windows...
This was part of the announcement
This part of my statement and the latter part you quoted are really driving at the problems between car manufacturers and charger providers, we don't have universal support for all charging stations through all car navigation systems and have a seamless plug and charge experience despite the claims of it all being an open/common protocol.
The initiation and manual process of charging I agree is not related to that and is a software issue.. for the record, I'm not advocating for that to be standardised necessarily, if we had full universal plug and charge from the car you wouldn't need to even use the interface..
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