Repairs after MOT due

[bainbridge]

Hi motors

MOT due mid September

Rust work (which would fail MOT) booked in for 1st November with a trusted specialist, who also do MOTs.

How would this work?

Would I need to SORN the car Mid September, or simply let the MOT lapse.

Obviously I won't drive the car without a valid MOT and I can park it on my drive from mid September until November.

What about getting it to the specialist?

I was thinking of parking it up on the drive from the MOT due date, but keep taxing the car (which I pay for by monthly DD).

Then, with an MOT booking date, drive the car to the specialist.

Am I missing something?

If so, what do I need to do to get everything done and stay on the right side of the law.

Thanks

 

[Nabinium]

https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot

Directly from page from Gov website above:

You cannot drive or park your vehicle on the road if the MOT has run out. You can be prosecuted if caught.

The only exceptions are to drive it:

• to or from somewhere to be repaired
• to a pre-arranged MOT test

Although I can't find any specific information about driveways, a driveway isn't a road, so I believe you can do what you were thinking of doing.

West Yorkshire Police (obviously applies anywhere in England) goes into detail a bit more on their website, but they also mention "not having an MOT may have implications for the validity of your insurance - you would need to check this with your insurer."

https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/ask-the-police/question/Q360

I imagine you'd be fine regarding insurance, but as a precaution, worth double checking your insurance policy for any specific wording that whether or not the insurance will be deemed invalid without a valid MOT, or calling them up.

 

[SonicSW20]

Most insurance policies state something along the lines of "must be in a roadworthy condition", not specifically mentioning an MOT as a car can have a valid MOT and not be roadworthy. You should check your specific wording though.

I would SORN it as there is no point in paying 2 months tax when it won't be on the road, unless you like giving money to the government when you don't need to I suppose. The prebooked MOT clause also applies to SORN status.

 

[deviation]

If the MOT runs out mid Sept and it's not going to pass before the work, then you will have to SORN it, yes. You can't tax a car without a valid MOT, so that would be fraud letting it continue to have road tax.
You'll have to have it trailered to the place that does the work, or recovered there by a company that's whiling to take it there despite it not being broken down - there are many companies that will offer this service, don't worry

 

[bainbridge]

Ok thanks guys, I'm going to try and get some recommendations on a more local place where I can get it done sooner.

 

[deviation]

Ok thanks guys, I'm going to try and get some recommendations on a more local place where I can get it done sooner.

I don't personally use social media, but many people advertise services trailering/putting a car on the back of a recovery truck on facebook/instagram - a friend often uses them for track days if he ever has something break on track and needs to get home or it taken to his mates unit,.
They will be happy to take you to and from garages for repairs, and are pretty competitively priced and cheaper than a franchise business, so that is worth looking into if you have social media, or know someone who does.
Hope this helps

 

[Haggisman]

If the MOT runs out mid Sept and it's not going to pass before the work, then you will have to SORN it, yes. You can't tax a car without a valid MOT, so that would be fraud letting it continue to have road tax.

While IANAL, I'm fairly sure that's not true - you're correct that you can't renew the tax without a valid MOT, however the current MOT expiring doesn't invalidate the current tax, this would only become a problem if the current tax needs renewing between the current MOT expiring and the repairs/new MOT.

However do bear in mind that if the car is taxed it needs to be insured, even if you aren't driving it.

West Yorkshire Police (obviously applies anywhere in England) goes into detail a bit more on their website, but they also mention "not having an MOT may have implications for the validity of your insurance - you would need to check this with your insurer."

https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/ask-the-police/question/Q360

I imagine you'd be fine regarding insurance, but as a precaution, worth double checking your insurance policy for any specific wording that whether or not the insurance will be deemed invalid without a valid MOT, or calling them up.

That only applies if you are driving the car (although if the car is stolen/crashed into/burned out while parked up, the lack of MOT will almost certainly have a detrimental effect on any valuation)

 

[deviation]

While IANAL, I'm fairly sure that's not true - you're correct that you can't renew the tax without a valid MOT, however the current MOT expiring doesn't invalidate the current tax, this would only become a problem if the current tax needs renewing between the current MOT expiring and the repairs/new MOT.

However do bear in mind that if the car is taxed it needs to be insured, even if you aren't driving it.

That only applies if you are driving the car (although if the car is stolen/crashed into/burned out while parked up, the lack of MOT will almost certainly have a detrimental effect on any valuation)

I know what you mean, but the TLDR is, it's a technicality that he could get away with, because it did have a valid MOT, thus it could and was taxed, before said MOT fails/expires... Or they could cancel his road tax/insurance if they find out/choose to.

The current road tax will either have been paid in full or be an ongoing direct debit, however legally they could argue that this road tax is now null and void due to the lack of an MOT, thus your current or next month is void due to the car not meeting the legal/roadworthy requirements to be taxed.
Just because there's a loophole currently where it was either paid in advance in full or a direct debit, doesn't make it legitimately legal, it's just whether they 1) find out and 2) choose to take any action.

Either way, it's a waste of money to continue having it taxed and not seek a refund for the remaining months, after all SORN'ing a car takes seconds and is free.

Yes, you could just risk it and keep quiet, and hope the expired MOT doesn't flag up on the system and void the remaining road tax, but what's the point, it's just wasting money, there is no benefit to this.

Another loophole, applies the same way with insurance that you've already setup/paid in full/direct debit, you could SORN said car, and not tell your insurance, and just reap the benefits of the NCB building up with zero risk - despite you invalidating the terms and conditions of insurance, i.e. it must be roadworth with an MOT and road tax, but again it's whether they find out or you want to risk it.

Both loopholes due to technicalities of previous legitimacy though

It's one of those 'it's on you to tell us, or risk a fine, or have your insurance/tax cancelled' scenarios.

I'd personally just SORN it lol.

 

[SonicSW20]

I know what you mean, but the TLDR is, it's a technicality that he could get away with, because it did have a valid MOT, thus it could and was taxed, before said MOT fails/expires... Or they could cancel his road tax/insurance if they find out/choose to.

The current road tax will either have been paid in full or be an ongoing direct debit, however legally they could argue that this road tax is now null and void due to the lack of an MOT, thus your current or next month is void due to the car not meeting the legal/roadworthy requirements to be taxed.
Just because there's a loophole currently where it was either paid in advance in full or a direct debit, doesn't make it legitimately legal, it's just whether they 1) find out and 2) choose to take any action.

Either way, it's a waste of money to continue having it taxed and not seek a refund for the remaining months, after all SORN'ing a car takes seconds and is free.

Yes, you could just risk it and keep quiet, and hope the expired MOT doesn't flag up on the system and void the remaining road tax, but what's the point, it's just wasting money, there is no benefit to this.

Another loophole, applies the same way with insurance that you've already setup/paid in full/direct debit, you could SORN said car, and not tell your insurance, and just reap the benefits of the NCB building up with zero risk - despite you invalidating the terms and conditions of insurance, i.e. it must be roadworth with an MOT and road tax, but again it's whether they find out or you want to risk it.

Both loopholes due to technicalities of previous legitimacy though

It's one of those 'it's on you to tell us, or risk a fine, or have your insurance/tax cancelled' scenarios.

I'd personally just SORN it lol.

Please state the legislation this is derived from.

 

[deviation]

Please state the legislation this is derived from.

I mean it's pretty simple? Anyone that drives knows this?

A car must be roadworth to pass an MOT, and then taxed, and both to be insured? If not you SORN it. Just because it had tax before it fails an MOT or the MOT expires, doesn't mean you can decide what the law is...
Are you trying to exploit the loophole of them not catching up to an expired MOT and hoping that they won't find out and void the remaining prepaid road tax that was bought when the car had a valid MOT?

Legal obligations of drivers and riders​

You must do several things before you drive a car or ride a motorcycle. These include getting a driving licence, registering, insuring and taxing your vehicle, and getting an MOT.
These are legal requirements and apply to everyone.
You may hold personal views about the law, but these do not change your legal responsibilities.
If you do not meet your obligations, you may be taken to court or have to pay a fine.

Vehicle requirements​

The vehicle must:

• be registered with DVLA
• have up to date vehicle tax (check if your vehicle is taxed online)
• have a current MOT certificate (if your vehicle needs one)
• be roadworthy

You must also have a minimum of third party insurance that covers your use of the vehicle.

The gov.uk website will check whether your vehicle has a valid MOT before allowing you to pay for your car tax online. If you choose to tax your car at your local Post Office, the clerk will also check its MOT status before allowing you to proceed.

Why do you need a valid MOT to tax your car?​

The annual MOT test is a legal requirement for most cars over three years old. The MOT test is in place to help ensure that all vehicles on the road are safe, roadworthy and produce acceptable exhaust emissions.
Therefore, in the interest of road safety (and the environment), the DVLA has set the requirement that most drivers must hold a valid MOT certificate for their vehicle before purchasing or renewing road tax.

When can you tax a car without an MOT?​

There are certain circumstances in which you do not need an MOT to tax your car:

• If your vehicle is under 3 years old.
• If your vehicle has MOT exemption.

If your car is over 40 years old and has classic car tax exemption, you will still need to tax your car, but it will not cost you anything – and you will not require an MOT certificate to do so.

What happens to my remaining car tax when my MOT runs out?​

If your MOT has expired, you can request a car tax refund from the DVLA for any full months’ tax you have remaining on your vehicle.
Remember, you cannot drive your vehicle (or leave it parked on a public road) until you have obtained a valid MOT certificate – and renewed your car tax. If you intend to take your vehicle off the road (or scrap your car), you must first make a SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification).

MOT and insurance​

You may be wondering; can you insure your car without an MOT? Technically, the answer is yes.
However, you cannot drive the vehicle (or even park it on a public road) until you have arranged valid insurance. If you do not intend to use your vehicle on the road, you still need to make a SORN to remain compliant.

What happens when you drive without car tax?​

If you are caught driving without car tax, an automated letter and a fine will be sent to the address of the vehicle’s registered keeper. This will usually be an £80 fine, reduced to £40 if you pay within 28 days.

What happens when you drive without an MOT?​

If you are caught driving without an MOT, you may be given a police caution.

However, if the police discover that one or more ‘dangerous’ faults highlighted during a previous MOT test have not been rectified, you could also receive a fine up of up to £2,500, in addition to points on your licence – or even a driving disqualification.

Checking car tax and MOT status​

You can check your car’s tax and MOT status instantly by entering its reg number into our free Car Tax Check and MOT Check tools.

How much MOT cover do I need to tax my car?​

To tax your car, you will need an MOT certificate that is valid on the start date of your vehicle tax (or the date when it is issued).

If your current MOT expires before either of these dates, you will not be able to tax your vehicle until you have obtained a new MOT certificate. Therefore, in this case, you should arrange an MOT test as soon as possible so that you can tax your car before it runs out of MOT cover.

 

[Haggisman]

I know what you mean, but the TLDR is, it's a technicality that he could get away with, because it did have a valid MOT, thus it could and was taxed, before said MOT fails/expires... Or they could cancel his road tax/insurance if they find out/choose to.

The current road tax will either have been paid in full or be an ongoing direct debit, however legally they could argue that this road tax is now null and void due to the lack of an MOT, thus your current or next month is void due to the car not meeting the legal/roadworthy requirements to be taxed.
Just because there's a loophole currently where it was either paid in advance in full or a direct debit, doesn't make it legitimately legal, it's just whether they 1) find out and 2) choose to take any action.

Based on what laws/legislation? I've never seen anything to say your tax & insurance are immediately invalidated upon MOT failure/expiry?

Either way, it's a waste of money to continue having it taxed and not seek a refund for the remaining months, after all SORN'ing a car takes seconds and is free.

It's 1 month (October), so while yes, a waste of money, it's hardly a lot; whether it's worth the hassle to the OP is up to them.

Yes, you could just risk it and keep quiet, and hope the expired MOT doesn't flag up on the system and void the remaining road tax, but what's the point, it's just wasting money, there is no benefit to this.

What are you "risking" exactly? What's the penalty for paying too much VED?

Another loophole, applies the same way with insurance that you've already setup/paid in full/direct debit, you could SORN said car, and not tell your insurance, and just reap the benefits of the NCB building up with zero risk - despite you invalidating the terms and conditions of insurance, i.e. it must be roadworth with an MOT and road tax, but again it's whether they find out or you want to risk it.

Having no tax and MOT doesn't invalidate your insurance . Are you suggesting that someone with a "summer car" who only uses it a couple of months a year and has it sitting on the drive for the rest of the time is committing insurance fraud if they only tax it for those couple of months, but keep it insured in case it gets stolen?

Both loopholes due to technicalities of previous legitimacy though

It's one of those 'it's on you to tell us, or risk a fine, or have your insurance/tax cancelled' scenarios.

Again, what's the fine for paying too much VED?

Edit: the first line of your quote:

"You must do several things before you drive a car or ride a motorcycle. "

The OP isn't planning to drive the vehicle, so the rest of what you've quoted is irrelevant.

From https://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notification

You must make a SORN in any of the following situations:

• your vehicle is not taxed
• your vehicle is not insured (even for a short time, for example because there’s a delay renewing your policy)
• you want to break a vehicle down for parts before you scrap it
• you buy or receive a vehicle and want to keep it off the road (you cannot transfer a SORN from the previous keeper)

None of those apply to the OP (assuming the tax doesn't expire between Sept-Nov)

 

[JonRGV250]

I've never seen anything to say your tax & insurance are immediately invalidated upon MOT failure/expiry?

You can legally drive your car home after and back to the MOT station again if it fails (non dangerous faults).
He’s talking nonsense.

 

[deviation]

Based on what laws/legislation? I've never seen anything to say your tax & insurance are immediately invalidated upon MOT failure/expiry?

It's 1 month (October), so while yes, a waste of money, it's hardly a lot; whether it's worth the hassle to the OP is up to them.

What are you "risking" exactly? What's the penalty for paying too much VED?

Having no tax and MOT doesn't invalidate your insurance . Are you suggesting that someone with a "summer car" who only uses it a couple of months a year and has it sitting on the drive for the rest of the time is committing insurance fraud if they only tax it for those couple of months, but keep it insured in case it gets stolen?

Again, what's the fine for paying too much VED?

To be honest, you're just coming across like you're exploiting a loophole purely based on the fact that it can be exploited and 'they might not find out'?

You can get fined by both the insurer (depending on their policies) and the DVSA, if they find out/choose to do so.

If something is required to qualify something as legal, what makes you think that after it is now not roadworthy/legal to be on the road, that it magically is because it was before when it was legal with an MOT/tax?
On that basis, I could argue if I drink drink it's not illegal because it was legal when I drove sober before I drank? Ridiculous.

Ring your insurance company and ask them if you have no MOT, and thus no valid tax, what their stance is on it? Unless you specifically have 'lay over cover' policy for a SORNed vehicle for coverage against theft, then you're going against the usual terms and conditions of car insurance, simply put, that the car must be MOT'ed, taxed and of a roadworthy condition.
Obviously if you have 'lay over cover' that isn't the same insurance as insurance for driving a car on the road. It's purely covering you incase of theft.

People with 'summer cars' either tax them for the year, or for the month in that 'summer' that they want to drive it, then SORN them again, which automatically cancels the remaining road tax and you get issued a refund of any amount remaining.

When did I state that there was a fine for paying too much road tax? I didn't... I said there is a potential fine for not declaring a vehicle SORNed/not having valid roadtax, which not having an MOT, but continuing to tax a car, purely because you already paid for it and cba to SORN it, would count as fraud. Because tax can only be issued to a road legal MOT'ed car. Which it now isn't. This isn't rocket science...

 

[deviation]

You can legally drive your car home after and back to the MOT station again if it fails (non dangerous faults).
He’s talking nonsense.

I know that? I didn't say you couldn't? So why put words into my mouth? This has nothing to do with driving legally to and from an MOT, I suggest you go back and read the OP's posts?

The OP was asking whether he needs to SORN a car that will fail it's MOT/expire, because he isn't going to use it due to knowing that it needs repairs. So he asked us, how does he get it to and from the repair shop NOT the retest! As the OP is fully aware of that it needs/will fail the MOT on.
The OP is asking how will he get it to repairer and back, hence why I recommended a recovery truck service to and from the repairer, as the OP isn't asking about driving it to the MOT, only the repairer and back!
Once the repairs are done, the OP will obviously be able to legally drive it to and from the MOT.

That is a simple answer, yes. When SORNed it automatically cancels the OP's remaining tax and refunds the rest.

Why would you believe at that point the cars tax is still valid when it hasn't got a valid MOT, thus the tax cannot be issued if you went to tax it when it failed? Just because it was taxed before the MOT expired/failed, doesn't mean now it's technically legal? As it isn't MOT'ed.

You both are just exploiting the loophole, that the tax was done before the expiry of the MOT/failure. Knowingly doing this, without SORN'ing it, would be considered fraudulent, as the vehicle doesn't have an MOT, thus shouldn't be taxed.

 

[IC3]

You can legally drive your car home after and back to the MOT station again if it fails (non dangerous faults).
He’s talking nonsense.

So 1 Major would disqualify you from using the car (excluding travel from and to MOT Centre), even if there's some MOT left?

 

[SonicSW20]

I know that? I didn't say you couldn't? So what are you accusing me of that for?

Did you even bother read what the OP said? Clearly not!

He was asking wether he needs to SORN a car that will fail it's MOT/expire.

That is a simple answer, yes. When SORNed it automatically cancels his remaining tax and refunds him the rest.

Why would you believe at that point the cars tax is still valid when it hasn't got a valid MOT, thus the tax cannot be issued if you went to tax it when it failed? Just because it was taxed before the MOT expired/failed, doesn't mean now it's technically legal? As it isn't MOT'ed.

You both are just exploiting the loophole, that the tax was done before the expiry of the MOT/failure.

He *can* SORN it to save some money, and will be *required* to SORN it when the tax expires (unless it has a fresh MOT by then). There is no requirement to SORN immediately when the MOT expires.

 

[JonRGV250]

So 1 Major would disqualify you from using the car (excluding travel from and to MOT Centre), even if there's some MOT left?

You’re not allowed to drive the car period after a “dangerous” defect failure.
Not that it stops anyone.
Edit
Sorry I didn’t answer your question.
You can still use the car as the major doesn’t invalidate the current MOT.

 

[deviation]

He *can* SORN it to save some money, and will be *required* to SORN it when the tax expires (unless it has a fresh MOT by then). There is no requirement to SORN immediately when the MOT expires.

So why wouldn't he SORN it?
He has asked us what to do, the correc thing is to SORN it, and get the remaining tax back, and use that money to cover the cost of a recovery company to take the vehicle to and from the repairers, as he has asked us how would he go about that.
The OP knows that once repaired he can then get it retested and gain a valid MOT, as he has already stated he knows that it would not pass without the repairs that he knows it currently needs...

 

[Haggisman]

To be honest, you're just coming across like you're exploiting a loophole purely based on the fact that it can be exploited and 'they might not find out'?

And you sound like you're making up rules which don't exist, doing something "not illegal" is not "exploiting a loophole", it's just "not doing something illegal".

You can get fined by both the insurer (depending on their policies) and the DVSA, if they find out/choose to do so.

Again, legislation please (the fact you think an insurer has the legal power to fine you suggests you don't actually have a clue what you're talking about).

If something is required to qualify something as legal, what makes you think that after it is now not roadworthy/legal to be on the road, that it magically is because it was before when it was legal with an MOT/tax?
On that basis, I could argue if I drink drink it's not illegal because it was legal when I drove sober before I drank? Ridiculous.

Are you drunk now, because this sounds like the ramblings of a madman!

Ring your insurance company and ask them if you have no MOT, and thus no valid tax, what their stance is on it? Unless you specifically have 'lay over cover' policy for a SORNed vehicle for coverage against theft, then you're going against the usual terms and conditions of car insurance, simply put, that the car must be MOT'ed, taxed and of a roadworthy condition.

I've just checked my previous policy documents and there's no mention of MOT.

My current policy says: "Keep it roadworthy with a valid MOT if required by law". An MOT isn't required by law if the car is not being driven on the public highway.

There's no mention of VED/tax in either policy document

People with 'summer cars' either tax them for the year, or for the month in that 'summer' that they want to drive it, then SORN them again, which automatically cancels the remaining road tax and you get issued a refund of any amount remaining.

Yes, because if they're not using the car for months on end, it makes no sense to keep paying the VED.

I said there is a potential fine for not declaring a vehicle SORNed/not having valid roadtax

There isn't (happy to be proven wrong if you you can advise of the legislation which states this).

which not having an MOT, but continuing to tax a car, purely because you already paid for it and cba to SORN it, would count as fraud.

The legal definition of fraud requires an element of financial gain/causing a loss to someone else, so it wouldn't.

Because tax can only be issued to a road legal MOT'ed car. Which it now isn't. This isn't rocket science...

"Being issued to" and "immediately invalidated by lack of" are not the same thing.

 

[SonicSW20]

So why wouldn't he SORN it?
He has asked us what to do, the correc thing is to SORN it, and get the remaining tax back, and use that money to cover the cost of a recovery company to take the vehicle to and from the repairers, as he has asked us how would he go about that.
The OP knows that once repaired he can then get it retested and gain a valid MOT, as he has already stated he knows that it would not pass without the repairs that he knows it currently needs...

It would have course be sensible to SORN so you're not paying for vehicle tax you're not required to pay for. However, you're stating that there would be penalties or other consequences for not SORNing immediately after the MOT expires which is nonsense.

Edit: "would have" should actually be "would" followed by "of", but apparently the forum automatically replaces "of" with "have" when it follows the word "would", even when it doesn't make sense to.