Pro Cycling Thread 2023

Just as an aside. Pogacar went up Hautacam last 4.5km in 12:38 yesterday.

Vingegaard went up it in 13:27.

There were 5 riders that went up it faster than JV yesterday and the fastest was only 5s slower than Pogacar. Its easy to say Pogacar vs Jonas but its never quite that simple when looking at performances.
 
I recall reading that if you're signed up to VADA/WADA they can only do the surprise testing between certain hours. So if you micro-dose you shouldn't have any traces left in your system by the time they're able to test you but you'll still reap the benefits.

I seem to remember that its something related to the laws in Spain or France or somewhere that basically stop the authorities from interfering between certain hours.
 
How have they not banned that helmet that JV wear in TTs. Its just utterly ridiculous. :p
 
Yeah, at this point I’m positive this is bogus. Beating a TT specialist whilst you’re riding an aero bike and they’re on a TT bike?

Au revoir, Le Tour.
 
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Yeah, at this point I’m positive this is bogus. Beating a TT specialist whilst you’re riding an aero bike and they’re on a TT bike?

Au revoir, Le Tour.
Evenpoel is not an elite climber.

Vin barely used his TT bars on the climb, unlike Roglic and Lipowitz.

At the speed Pog averaged, he would have been quicker on a TT bike and seriously threatened Merlier missing the already extended cutoff.

Cav's stage win record is set to be shattered within a few years.
 
Evenpoel is not an elite climber.

Vin barely used his TT bars on the climb, unlike Roglic and Lipowitz.

At the speed Pog averaged, he would have been quicker on a TT bike and seriously threatened Merlier missing the already extended cutoff.

Cav's stage win record is set to be shattered within a few years.

He was faster at the first split which was mostly flat.

Think my bee in my bones stems from him just being too good at everything.

MVDP is a certified classics guy. But you wouldn’t really expect him win general classification at any significant tour.

Remco is about as aerodynamic as they come so he excels at TTs. Probably could win a GC (he won Vuelta right) but he’s not ‘good’ enough comparatively in regards to the ‘best’.

Jonas would get stomped in classic races or races without much elevation but in the mountains he excels.

They all tend to have an obvious short coming. Tadej has none, he is just strong an everything. On top of that the guy just doesn’t fatigue. It’s not like Jonas who really focuses on this one event for the whole year.

They’re probably all on something so he is still the best. I’m just not sure I’m believing he is natty.
 
But I don't think it's like that is a new thing. I don't know my history too well, but wasn't Mercx a similar type? Could win a classic or a grand tour?
 
But I don't think it's like that is a new thing. I don't know my history too well, but wasn't Mercx a similar type? Could win a classic or a grand tour?
He was also caught with the juice 3 times.

Edit: I’m not even saying it to really devalue Tadej as I’m of the opinion they’re all on it and he is still coming out on top. With or without drugs he is simply the best cyclist. But there are just too many eyebrow moments with tadej along with the company he keeps.
 
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Motorbike following on the downhill and the speedo was showing 99kph. That was the back of the pack too so guess they are going a bit quicker on the front
 
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Sorry, Pogacar during this TdF I just can't believe there isn't something suss. I can't remember a sport where there was THIS much difference between the best and the rest.

I'd love him to be clean, but I just can't believe it :-(
 
I’m watching the itv coverage this year, but already starting to think about where to watch it next year, and balancing it against having to pay to watch the six nations next year too. What’s the cost going to be able to watch the grand tours next year?
 
Sorry, Pogacar during this TdF I just can't believe there isn't something suss. I can't remember a sport where there was THIS much difference between the best and the rest.

I'd love him to be clean, but I just can't believe it :-(
Last year,year before and year before that....

Don't worry though the media are reporting on doping. Pointing fingers at ineos..... Well done cycling media, how about you do a better job rather than ask Arensman about a doctor who admitted doping 10 years ago...
 
Probably easier to point fingers at a team not going through a decent patch of success.

I'm sure if I looked at any of the top dogs with enough of a lens I'd see dirt on all of them but the spot light is on Tadej at the moment. His performances the last 2 years, the amount he enters and wins over all different types of road racing along with dropping out of the Olympics because... "my girlfriend wasn't selected..." (I'm sure it was nothing to do with more robust testing) I just don't how anyone can look at him and bet their house on him being clean and 100% natural.

Didn't Lance also have a tonne of physiological benefits, like a larger heart, that was the cause for him being so superior. Until it was the drugs!

An article from 2005...

Is the Tour de France winner endowed with a supreme athletic physiology by a genetic freak? Or does he just work harder than the rest?

There is circumstantial evidence for the freak theory. Armstrong has particularly long thigh bones, for instance, making him biomechanically suited to cycling. His heart is a third larger than the average male's. His maximum heart rate is over 200bpm. His VO 2 max (the amount of oxygen the body can use in a given period, a standard measure of aerobic performance) is one of the highest recorded at about 83 ml/kg/min.

All these are factors, but relatively insignificant ones. All professional cyclists, for example, will have much bigger and more efficient hearts than untrained individuals. Most will have VO2 max numbers in the 70-80 ml/kg/min range. Where Armstrong stands out is that he seems to have an innate capacity to train exceptionally hard, recover quickly and reap the fitness benefit.

One study found that between the ages of 21 (when he was already a pro) and 28 (after winning his first Tour), his muscular efficiency had improved by 8%. After surviving cancer, he also became more focused about managing his weight, so that this 8% was actually worth an 18% increase in his power-to-weight ratio - crucial for cycling up the Alps and Pyrenees.

And this was achieved with a workload that would make most elite cyclists break down. Even Armstrong's own teammates, who would be continually worrying about picking up a virus, marvelled that Lance never seemed to get sick. A natural athleticism combined with a remarkable immune system and an incredible work ethic: that seems to be Armstrong's recipe for success.

Sauce

They're (nearly) always genetic aliens, until they're not.
 
Again, I didn't follow cycling back then, but weren't 80-90% of the peloton juicing back then? Or are you saying Lance had better juice? Or, they were all juicing and Lance was a genetic freak?
I just don't how anyone can look at him and bet their house on him being clean and 100% natural.
Tbf, I don't think anyone IS doing that. It could come out in time that he was and he was the only one doing so. I wouldn't be :eek: I would be "Oh, that's a shame, but it does explain some things" But that doesn't mean I think he IS juicing.
Didn't Lance also have a tonne of physiological benefits, like a larger heart, that was the cause for him being so superior. Until it was the drugs!
Another small point, the bit you've quoted, they don't assign anything to his larger heart. They actually say all cyclists tend to develop/have larger hearts... "All these are factors, but relatively insignificant ones. All professional cyclists, for example, will have much bigger and more efficient hearts than untrained individuals."
 
I’m saying the same for Lance as I am Tadej. With or without juice I think they’d still come out on top.

Taking PEDs of any sort is only going to get you that final few percent. I could pump myself full of the best science can offer, it won’t turn me into a professional let alone TDF serial winner.

I’m not picking on Tadej though as it’s going to be mostly everyone in the peloton. There’s too much money involved and when you look at the people employed on certain teams it would be more surprising if they’re genuinely not cheating.

I know he had a crash but even Jonas. After all the attention after that TT in 23, has he ever looked that strong again?

It’s just too easy to circumvent drug testing along with the history not to be sceptical
 
A lot of the big names have had crashes with significant injuries in recent years, but iirc Pog's worst was injuring his wrist in spring '22.

Froome '19
Bernal '20?
Alaphillipe '21?
Vin spring '24?
Evenpoel late '24
Roglic spring '25
Wout numerous going back to at least '19
Etc.
 
Motorbike following on the downhill and the speedo was showing 99kph. That was the back of the pack too so guess they are going a bit quicker on the front
Its bonkers isn't it? Fastest I have been on my aero bike is 76, 9kg bike and 88kg bodyweight. It makes no sense how 60kg men on lighter bikes can crank an extra 20kmh out.
 
Its bonkers isn't it? Fastest I have been on my aero bike is 76, 9kg bike and 88kg bodyweight. It makes no sense how 60kg men on lighter bikes can crank an extra 20kmh out.

Yeah, the funny thing is that it doesn't look that fast on TV either. I think my max speed is similar to yours. I'm about 83kg with a lightweight bike. I almost never get above 70 in the UK because of our roads. I never trust them and honestly we don't have that many descents long enough either.

I guess closed roads helps these boys but its still ballsy to be going that fast on a bike.
 
A lot of the big names have had crashes with significant injuries in recent years, but iirc Pog's worst was injuring his wrist in spring '22.

Froome '19
Bernal '20?
Alaphillipe '21?
Vin spring '24?
Evenpoel late '24
Roglic spring '25
Wout numerous going back to at least '19
Etc.

And being fair to Tadej, the fact he has had no time off compared to the others isn't an insignificant fact, either.

Ultimately, I'm a fan of sports so I'm going to continue watching anyway. Hell, one of my favourite sports of boxing constantly has issues with PEDS. The only sport I follow that feels it takes PEDS somewhat seriously is athletics and they don't care if you're a big name. You'll get banned for numerous years, like Gatlin. Whereas boxing, pop dirty in a sport where you can legally kill someone? 6 month ban between training camps.

It's still a great spectacle to witness but it's just hard not to be slightly jaded when you see such suspicious performances for such a long time, teams being run by known cheaters both whilst riding and operationally speaking along with how much money is at stake.

Then with the history of sport being what it is with the who's who of cycling being popped at one time or another and the EPO times now getting crushed but we're being told it's down to tart cherry juice, carbs and wider tyres...

If they want to stop viewers being rife with scepticism them they should be more open give us a reason to believe we are watching clean and natural performances. Increase the frequency of testing. What good is it testing an athlete at the end of a stage? Report if someone has shown to have had their haematocrit levels increase once it starts to near an abnormal level and start ignoring these stupid privacy rules that allow cheaters to circumvent testing.

I'm, obviously, not part of VADA/WADA etc but even I assume like there would a glaring hole in the TDF testing procedure. All I can find online is that they test 4 riders after each stage, sometimes before. The stage winner, GC leader and two random riders. I can't see anything about the frequency or intervals they're tested at. It would be fair to assume that in order to perform at the TDF, the riders would and should be allowed 8 hours of undisturbed sleep. A quick Google shows the half life of EPO is from 5 to 13 hours. I'm sure the doctors who know their stuff would be able to workout how much and how quickly a riders body could process the amount in a micro-dose to pass a test but still get the benefits. So they could easily micro-dose at night, get their rest and have the benefit for the following day.

That's ignoring what swanky designer drugs the better financed teams can research/create and use until doping agencies catch up.

For what it's worth. I owned one of those bright yellow LiveStrong wristbands in school and I still enjoy watching videos of Pantani and Armstrong duke it out up Ventoux and I'll still enjoy watching the current pros climb it tomorrow. Just like how I enjoy watching Tua vs Ibeahuchi for the record of most punches thrown in a heavyweight fight - it was never proven but always suspected Ike was juiced to the gills that night. I enjoyed watching Gatlin return to the track and rediscover some decent clean form but I was also sad that Jones never managed to reach the heights she did clean as she did doped.

Some people will cheat if they think it'll give them that extra 1%. It doesn't really spoil the show for me. I just don't like being told it's raining when the sport is clearly peeing on my shoes.
 
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