Air India Crash

I know nothing, but I don't see any harm in speculation as long as no one picks up a brick with the intent of throwing it at someone. This flight, the speculation has been informative and very interesting to follow.

I believe it is possible to control the fuel pumps via the computer systems.

The cut off switches are just that - they cut the flow of fuel and that includes both powered pump delivery and [g]ravity feed that occurs if the pump fails. They don't just disable the pump as the engines could still draw from the tanks.
 
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The cut off switches are just that - they cut the flow of fuel and that includes both powered pump delivery and [g]ravity feed that occurs if the pump fails. They don't just disable the pump as the engines could still draw from the tanks.

I don't understand why you added that. What did I say that implied otherwise? (*curious*).
 
As I believe that the pilots in the cockpit should always have absolute authority to be able to fly to the plane how they want, without the risk of "computer says no" I don't think there is a fix, just an acceptable risk.
I couldn't disagree more, humans will always be a liability and as machines get better they should eventually have total control.
 
I couldn't disagree more, humans will always be a liability and as machines get better they should eventually have total control.
Machines are only as reliable as the situations they were designed for, and their ability to recognise failures.

There have been a whole host of crashes/incidents that were caused by things that hadn't been seen before, and that humans either managed to work through and avoid them becoming lethal, or managed to minimise the loss of life by doing things that were not in any manual and sometimes went against all normal practices either due to the pilots own prior experience in other methods of transport, knowledge of the equipment, or sheer calculated spur of the moment desperation to try something, anything that might work.

Don't forget that there have also been a bunch of accidents caused by the computer systems in the aircraft deciding that two of 3 sensors were right, when in reality they were faulty, again IIRC several were averted by pilots doing things like using mk1 eyes and ears to diagnose problems

There are pros and cons to pilots vs computers for flying aircraft, but one of the massive pros of an actual human pilot is that he/she can cope better in a lot of emergency situations than a computer. The Hudson river crash for example is a great example of that, the pilot recognised what had happened, recognised that he had no chance of doing the "normal" thing in diverting and immediately started to prep for the only landing that was available which would minimise external causalities.
I don't think it's been talked about much, but Sully's decision to ditch in the river not only ultimately avoided the very high chance of massive loss of life on the aircraft, but it also ruled out the almost certain significant loss of life of people outside of the aircraft (the area was built up enough and he was low enough that almost anywhere other than the water would have involved hitting buildings).

I would also point out, that apparently a lot of the "aircraft behaves like x" behaviours that the computers rely on are, especially on older aircraft based (initially at least) on relatively limited real world data, especially for non standard situations. The aircraft manufacturers are oddly adverse to doing extremely risky manoeuvrers on manned airframes that cost several hundred million dollars each, so in an emergency situation a human pilot can be the first person to try (out of desperation) certain things that the onboard computers would be programmed to never do, sometimes those desperate measures work, sometimes they don't, but at least the human pilot will try something.

The current situation where you have a human pilot able to overrule the computer (at least when the pilot knows what the computer is doing *looks at post MD Boeing*), and the computer giving warnings is about the best option, unless the computers get much better and much more versatile whilst still maintaining at least the same level of safety.
No matter what you do there is going to be a problem with human error (or malicious acts), either in the cockpit, in the maintenance of the aircraft, or in the programming of the computer, and at least with two humans in the cockpit any mistake or deliberate act is going to have to get past two people + the computers.
 
I couldn't disagree more, humans will always be a liability and as machines get better they should eventually have total control.

When mistakes happen they haven't employed the right humans. Would you have done this? Would I? They should give the jobs to the most competent people not those who have the money to train etc.
 
When mistakes happen they haven't employed the right humans. Would you have done this? Would I? They should give the jobs to the most competent people not those who have the money to train etc.
So where is this absolutely perfect human who has never made a mistake?

Training for commercial pilots is incredibly difficult and has so many tests that "having money" doesn't mean you get to be a commercial pilot, the airlines don't just hire you because you've got training, they'll then do their own training and testing before they'll let you in the cockpit and become a half billion pound potential liability and you'll need to prove yourself to not only the company, but their own training pilots, the check pilots, and the other existing pilots (none of whom want to be anywhere near a poor pilot, because they'll be flying with him).
 
Oh dan, not the brightest lightbulb :D
Would you have done this?

The point is that some people do this and others don't.

What i was trying to say is that the only person you can ever really trust with your own life is yourself.

So where is this absolutely perfect human who has never made a mistake?

Training for commercial pilots is incredibly difficult and has so many tests that "having money" doesn't mean you get to be a commercial pilot, the airlines don't just hire you because you've got training, they'll then do their own training and testing before they'll let you in the cockpit and become a half billion pound potential liability and you'll need to prove yourself to not only the company, but their own training pilots, the check pilots, and the other existing pilots (none of whom want to be anywhere near a poor pilot, because they'll be flying with him).

However it is true that training to be an airline pilot is very expensive and therefore reserved for initially quite privileged people. The best passenger jet captain in the world could be sitting in a school in a dead end corner of a city right now and no one knows - that person will likely never get the opportunity to be a pilot.

Like in any job, there are very competent people, borderline competent people and incompetent people. I bet the same is true in airline world (comparative to the standards required).
 
It looks like it was almost certainly done by a pilot.

Whether it was deliberate or unintentional is still anyone's guess.
Only a guess but would not be surprised if pilot cut the engines, asked the FO why he had turned the engines off knowing full well they would never be able to be started again in time and knowing conversation would be recorded on the cvr cast the blame on the FO. Insurance money then paid out due not his suicide.

No pilot would ever accidently cut both engine switches and not a chance both would fail like that.
 
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