Pro Cycling Thread 2023

I don't like to say it but nothing will ever be enough for some people. Athletes do deserve to have some vague level of normalcy to their lives and no matter what you do, there will always be something they can do to get a slight advantage.

I don't really see the point in endless speculation about it. None of the "evidence" is anything but conjecture and feelings and I think that perhaps you might be veering into that territory Junglist. I completely understand where you are coming from but none of the things you have mentioned are smoking guns or even hard to explain away. Sometimes you just have to accept that you will never know and try not to worry about it too much.
 
Rarely is there a smoking gun until it's all out in the open.

It doesn't detract from my enjoyment of sport. I would've watched the enhanced games had that gone ahead as well. I just love sport too much to not watch it because I believe people are gaming the system. If it comes out in a decade or so they're cheating it's not going to ruin anything for me as I believe they're already doing it so there is nothing to get shocked about.

Anyway, the tour is back on today and juiced or not, I can't wait to see them fly up Ventoux.
 
Junglist said:
Anyway, the tour is back on today and juiced or not, I can't wait to see them fly up Ventoux.
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Unfortunately VdP is out with illness. Fingers crossed we don't have any more losses to the main big names.

Said to my partner "Van de Poel is out of the Tour" and she said "though he already was". "Nah, thats Evenepoel". So confusing!
 
fez said:
Unfortunately VdP is out with illness. Fingers crossed we don't have any more losses to the main big names.

Said to my partner "Van de Poel is out of the Tour" and she said "though he already was". "Nah, thats Evenepoel". So confusing!
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That must mean the green is destined to Milan now? Unless Tadej takes that top which I think he has a chance of doing
 
Kinda gutted Remco is out (I'm still a few stages behind so not see the second iTT yet where it really went wrong for him?!)

Do think Tadej has it sown up this year - but was also under the impression he would anyway. Jonas and Remco both had hard comebacks from injury, while he's shown top form. But he always does and is just so consistently good. Modern day Merkx.

I get some of the scepticism and I'm really in the same ballpark as how fez put it (but I think most of us are?) - would be good to prove they're clean, but don't think any of them are really 'clean'. But nor is there the testing and science to even prove one way or another. Just have to believe it's a 'level playing field'. Still quite surprised the highs riders seem to reach when at UAE (Wellens current example). So I just believe with the money they have the science and marginal gains are just better than others, that with Tadej makes him the best (but he also would be without it). Don't quite understand why people don't 'hate' them like they do/did Sky/Ineos as their team tactics and even JV's are very similar. Maybe we will in a few years time and history rolls on - but also unlikely, they're not a British team.

Vandle said:
Its bonkers isn't it? Fastest I have been on my aero bike is 76, 9kg bike and 88kg bodyweight. It makes no sense how 60kg men on lighter bikes can crank an extra 20kmh out.
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Can easily hit 70kph from a standing start on a sustained 8-10% gradient (great road for it) - I'm 76kg on a 10kg bike, not really pedalling. But I'm also a cautious descender - prefer to go faster up & take lower risks down. But I imagine with putting some effort into it, some speed into it and the gearing to be pushing a few watts (alongside the wind tunnel testing for kit+position) I could hit 100kph there. Although saying that, Ben Healy 'only' did 77kph down it.

So much of descending is confidence and I dare say for the Pro's, training. They massively reduce the risk with both of those so it becomes relatively normal. Also why they don't really boast about it, you'll see some pro/ex-pro interviews when they're asked about their 'highest speed' and some are totally unaware, while others have a mental note about being over 100kph in a specific event.
 
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Shadowness said:
My misses always says "Tony Foccacia!" when ever she hears a commentator say Pogi's name :rolleyes:
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I just can't help laughing every time they say Tadej on TdF unchained because half the time you could be saying "today" and the sentence still kind of makes sense.
 
Roady said:
Can easily hit 70kph from a standing start on a sustained 8-10% gradient (great road for it) - I'm 76kg on a 10kg bike, not really pedalling. But I'm also a cautious descender - prefer to go faster up & take lower risks down. But I imagine with putting some effort into it, some speed into it and the gearing to be pushing a few watts (alongside the wind tunnel testing for kit+position) I could hit 100kph there. Although saying that, Ben Healy 'only' did 77kph down it.

So much of descending is confidence and I dare say for the Pro's, training. They massively reduce the risk with both of those so it becomes relatively normal. Also why they don't really boast about it, you'll see some pro/ex-pro interviews when they're asked about their 'highest speed' and some are totally unaware, while others have a mental note about being over 100kph in a specific event.
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I think you linked the wrong segment there. Shows your max as 57kmh although max for your ride that day is a suspicious looking 119!
I get the point though this is one of my fave downhill segments, Devils Elbow. This is the KOM - he hits 100 right in between two hard pedalling efforts. https://www.strava.com/activities/5047052399/analysis/6893/7114
My PB is 34 seconds slower where I hit 76kmh. I've done that descent loads of times and I just don't know how I could go any faster! Maybe the extra weight I am carrying is past the point of aiding a fast descent and actually aerodynamically slowing me down. :D

Anyway, back on topic. Best stage of the race so far yesterday, JVs best performance too. Really he has only had two below par stages (if you can call it below par, probably bad choice of words) but at this level when your rival can hang at your best pace easily it's enough.
 
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Vandle said:
I think you linked the wrong segment there. Shows your max as 57kmh although max for your ride that day is a suspicious looking 119!
I get the point though this is one of my fave downhill segments, Devils Elbow. This is the KOM - he hits 100 right in between two hard pedalling efforts. https://www.strava.com/activities/5047052399/analysis/6893/7114
My PB is 34 seconds slower where I hit 76kmh. I've done that descent loads of times and I just don't know how I could go any faster! Maybe the extra weight I am carrying is past the point of aiding a fast descent and actually aerodynamically slowing me down. :D

Anyway, back on topic. Best stage of the race so far yesterday, JVs best performance too. Really he has only had two below par stages (if you can call it below par, probably bad choice of words) but at this level when your rival can hang at your best pace easily it's enough.
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GPS lock goes all funky around that freak 70mph+, but fine either side https://www.strava.com/activities/8465054318/analysis/7549/7871
 
Anyone in Vif for the stage start tomorrow? I've lived in the village of Vif, just south of Grenoble, for over 20 years, so a once in a lifetime event to have a Tour de France stage depart and such an iconic stage as well.
 
Vandle said:
Anyway, back on topic. Best stage of the race so far yesterday, JVs best performance too. Really he has only had two below par stages (if you can call it below par, probably bad choice of words) but at this level when your rival can hang at your best pace easily it's enough.
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JV is still a monster. The issue is that Pogacar is just the next level. We would likely be having the same conversation about JV being too good for the rest of them in the GC if it wasn't for Pogacar.
 
First time I think I've seen JV been properly attacking. He always just seems to 'hang on' to Pog, doing the minimum needed to stay in the game.
 
Shadowness said:
First time I think I've seen JV been properly attacking. He always just seems to 'hang on' to Pog, doing the minimum needed to stay in the game.
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Hes been far more aggressive and punchy this year. I think he has had to adapt to be able to stick on Pogacars wheel when he goes for one of his little surges. Good to see but I don't know if its just taken the edge off his ability to grind out the climbs.
 
fez said:
Unfortunately VdP is out with illness. Fingers crossed we don't have any more losses to the main big names.
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Quite surprised it's pneumonia! Considering all the winter riding he does wouldn't have expected him to suffer more after the rain/cold than some of the more warmer climate guys.

fez said:
Hes been far more aggressive and punchy this year. I think he has had to adapt to be able to stick on Pogacars wheel when he goes for one of his little surges. Good to see but I don't know if its just taken the edge off his ability to grind out the climbs.
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Quite well published he's 'carrying more muscle' which has probably impacted his high mountains ability. Shame. VO2max type stuff at real altitude seemed to be the only place he really had a natural edge/ability over Pogi.
 
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Roady said:
Quite surprised it's pneumonia! Considering all the winter riding he does wouldn't have expected him to suffer more after the rain/cold than some of the more warmer climate guys.


Quite well published he's 'carrying more muscle' which has probably impacted his high mountains ability. Shame. VO2max type stuff at real altitude seemed to be the only place he really had a natural edge/ability over Pogi.
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I was thinking that Jonas looked like he had the upper body of a 12 year old boy instead of a 4 year old boy the other day :p
 
Thought the same seeing him the earlier stages (I'm still only on stage 10) "he looks a lot healthier but it's still early". Just a 'fuller face'. But think he'll always have that build won't he, just a small in stature guy, whatever he does. Which makes Pogi look even more of a mutant as he's got such a bigger build. Same for Remco - he almost a squat sprinter build at times - which is even more crazy as most TT specialists tend to be tall and long legged.

Vandle said:
I think you linked the wrong segment there. Shows your max as 57kmh although max for your ride that day is a suspicious looking 119!
I get the point though this is one of my fave downhill segments, Devils Elbow. This is the KOM - he hits 100 right in between two hard pedalling efforts. https://www.strava.com/activities/5047052399/analysis/6893/7114
My PB is 34 seconds slower where I hit 76kmh. I've done that descent loads of times and I just don't know how I could go any faster! Maybe the extra weight I am carrying is past the point of aiding a fast descent and actually aerodynamically slowing me down. :D
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Mine shows as 69kph for me? Hmm. Haha yeah the 119 Steve spots must have been a GPS issue as going uphill! I was solo at that point and I think I stopped to put on/off a rain jacket, there's a 4 minute gap just before. I do recall getting my wheel jammed with mud around there but don't think it was that ride, but could have been - inverting the bike with head unit attached. Maybe I threw it across the road in disgust!

When you said Devils Elbow my ears pricked up, but very different road - you wouldn't do those speeds down it! But maybe the same for yours?! Either way madness to see that speed between those damn tight corners - the power spikes between to get that speed... Pro? Death wish? Testing out 200mm rotors?! Just a good example why Strava don't like downhill KOM's :rolleyes:
 
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Roady said:
Thought the same seeing him the earlier stages (I'm still only on stage 10) "he looks a lot healthier but it's still early". Just a 'fuller face'. But think he'll always have that build won't he, just a small in stature guy, whatever he does. Which makes Pogi look even more of a mutant as he's got such a bigger build. Same for Remco - he almost a squat sprinter build at times - which is even more crazy as most TT specialists tend to be tall and long legged.


Mine shows as 69kph for me? Hmm. Haha yeah the 119 Steve spots must have been a GPS issue as going uphill! I was solo at that point and I think I stopped to put on/off a rain jacket, there's a 4 minute gap just before. I do recall getting my wheel jammed with mud around there but don't think it was that ride, but could have been - inverting the bike with head unit attached. Maybe I threw it across the road in disgust!

When you said Devils Elbow my ears pricked up, but very different road - you wouldn't do those speeds down it! But maybe the same for yours?! Either way madness to see that speed between those damn tight corners - the power spikes between to get that speed... Pro? Death wish? Testing out 200mm rotors?! Just a good example why Strava don't like downhill KOM's :rolleyes:
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Its a bit wider and quicker than that section! It cuts through the Dandenong Mountain range and is the tourist road back to Melbourne. Quite a bit of traffic on it in the summer of visiting drivers braking a lot as they don't know where they are going. Speed limit is 60kph and inexperienced or timid drivers will struggle to maintain that which means lots of overtaking on the unbroken centre line. Lots of fun or heaps sick maayte, as they say. :)
Australian rural roads, particularly around the mountain regions in Victoria are something else. They follow the original settler trails so go the path of least of resistance in terms of construction which often makes them tricky to drive a lot of the time.
 
Great stage to finish it off, but let's not be disillusioned, it's a gimmick and I hope they go back to the normal procession next year. If it was dry I expect it would have been pretty boring on the 3rd ascent with Pog going clear, but the wet conditions neutralise his abnormal power output as it puts a limit to what you can put down on the cobbles with that weight.
 
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