Electricians?

GR63

GR63

GR63

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Joined
28 May 2021
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Location
St Albans
Any electricians?

I don't have enough sockets in my office (ideally I'd empty it and rewire more sockets but everything goes around the same ring in the room so won't change this question much)

I have approx 20-25 devices to connect

PCs are largest power items (but all under 200W each except maybe 500W for gaming machine)
Consoles (XSX,PS4,WiiU,PS3,360)
Monitor (just one now!)
Low power stuff like phone charger, USB desklight and also PSUs for router, switch

Inevitably I will have a series of 4 or more daisy chained extension leads but with a total current draw under 13A as total power draw WILL be under 3000W and unlikely I'd see any need to have every device on at same time. Is there some particular optimal way to connect these? Should I put low or high power items in any particular positions in the chain?
 
Not a good idea to daisy chain extensions. You can buy 10 and 12 way multi plug extensions, so use one of those and work out the max power usage for everything plugged into that. but don't have any other extensions before or after that 12 way, plug that straight into the wall.

Typically it's pretty low, ie you might have router, switch, phone charger, psu for backlight, psu for printer, monitor etc etc so lots of devices but say 20W max per item, so way under 3000W


for example
SRGTOW10110
, 10 way

if you have only one socket you can get another socket added mine was about £75 per socket.
as for consoles unlikely you'll have them all switched on at the same time, so just use the highest single console power usage.
 
Last edited:
Diddums x said:
Get an electrician and get it done properly.
Click to expand...

Sure, so explain to me why the current behaves differently in a ring main than in the extensions? Every device powered on the total would be under 3000W so under 13A so whats the problem, other than you want me to employ an electrician? Not actually answering the question
 
hornetstinger said:
Not a good idea to daisy chain extensions. You can buy 10 and 12 way multi plug extensions, so use one of those and work out the max power usage for everything plugged into that. but don't have any other extensions before or after that 12 way, plug that straight into the wall.

Typically it's pretty low, ie you might have router, switch, phone charger, psu for backlight, psu for printer, monitor etc etc so lots of devices but say 20W max per item, so way under 3000W


for example
SRGTOW10110
, 10 way

if you have only one socket you can get another socket added mine was about £75 per socket.
Click to expand...

But WHY isnt it a good idea if the total is under 13A... its the current thats the limiting factor and if the "chain" is under 13A whats the issue?
 
If you don't know why daisy chaining is a bad idea, that's all the more reason to get an electrician in and get it done properly. I'm not trying to be snarky here, but there's a reason things like this aren't allowed, and why electricians have to follow the regs.

To answer your question, each connection will be adding resistance and producing unnecessary heat and introducing more failure points. If you're not keen on fires, then do it right.

And yes, I speak from experience.
 
not sure the reason why so copied and pasted from AI

"
Using an extension lead plugged into another extension lead (daisy-chaining) is generally discouraged due to the increased risk of overloading the circuit and potentially causing a fire. Daisy-chaining can lead to overheating of the extension cords, which can melt the insulation and potentially ignite surrounding materials.



Here's a more detailed explanation:
  • Overloading:
    Each extension lead has a maximum current capacity. When you plug one extension lead into another, you're essentially doubling the load on the first one. If the combined load of all the devices connected to the extended chain exceeds the capacity of the initial extension lead, it can overheat.
  • Voltage Drop:
    Adding more extension leads increases the resistance in the circuit. This can cause a voltage drop, meaning the devices connected to the end of the chain may not receive the voltage they need to operate properly, and can even cause them to malfunction.

  • Fire Hazard:
    Overheating of the extension leads can melt the insulation and potentially ignite surrounding materials, leading to a fire.

  • Safety Regulations:
    Many safety regulations advise against daisy-chaining extension leads, as it is a common cause of electrical fires.

  • Potential Solutions:
    If you need more outlets, consider using a power strip with multiple outlets or getting a longer extension lead with a higher current capacity. If the problem is simply needing to extend the reach of your power, a single, longer extension lead is a safer alternative.
    "
I personally use a master plug 12? way, that has the following. I'm gullty of using extension ontop of extension though as I have two sockets in the bedroom, and even with the 12 , I still needed 4 more around the PC under desk area, due to short PSU cables etc.

27" monitor
bias light psu
PC
24? port network switch
AVR
Two consoles
Printer
500W THX Select subwoofer
Four bay NAS
DSP antimode
Raspberry Pi5
other things connected as needed, phone charger
Couple of minor things I forgotten

Personally Just get a big multi way block, do away with lots of extensions upon extensions, ensuring you have a couple left over for new things and you don't overload the single 13A/3000W

Also a lot neater having fewer extensions
 
hornetstinger said:
not sure the reason why so copied and pasted from AI

"
Using an extension lead plugged into another extension lead (daisy-chaining) is generally discouraged due to the increased risk of overloading the circuit and potentially causing a fire. Daisy-chaining can lead to overheating of the extension cords, which can melt the insulation and potentially ignite surrounding materials.



Here's a more detailed explanation:
  • Overloading:
    Each extension lead has a maximum current capacity. When you plug one extension lead into another, you're essentially doubling the load on the first one. If the combined load of all the devices connected to the extended chain exceeds the capacity of the initial extension lead, it can overheat.

  • Voltage Drop:
    Adding more extension leads increases the resistance in the circuit. This can cause a voltage drop, meaning the devices connected to the end of the chain may not receive the voltage they need to operate properly, and can even cause them to malfunction.


  • Fire Hazard:
    Overheating of the extension leads can melt the insulation and potentially ignite surrounding materials, leading to a fire.


  • Safety Regulations:
    Many safety regulations advise against daisy-chaining extension leads, as it is a common cause of electrical fires.


  • Potential Solutions:
    If you need more outlets, consider using a power strip with multiple outlets or getting a longer extension lead with a higher current capacity. If the problem is simply needing to extend the reach of your power, a single, longer extension lead is a safer alternative.
    "
I personally use a master plug 12? way, that has the following. I'm gullty of using extension ontop of extension though as I have two sockets in the bedroom, and even with the 12 , I still needed 4 more around the PC under desk area, due to short PSU cables etc.

27" monitor
bias light psu
PC
24? port network switch
AVR
Two consoles
Printer
500W THX Select subwoofer
Four bay NAS
DSP antimode
Raspberry Pi5
other things connected as needed, phone charger
Couple of minor things I forgotten

Personally Just get a big multi way block, do away with lots of extensions upon extensions, ensuring you have a couple left over for new things and you don't overload the single 13A/3000W

Also a lot neater having fewer extensions
Click to expand...

Thanks... so know any 20 device multi blocks?? :-)
 
Not that I'm aware of, last time I did shopping 12 was the maximum.

Maybe get a spark to add another double socket, probably cheaper to get a few done at the same time.

Wouldn't mind having one in the landing myself (victorian house)

I have a similar problem downstairs, only two sockets near the hifi rack...and a massive rack of high powered amplifiers...
 
nst68 said:
Just get an electrician in and do it properly.
Click to expand...

So is this just a feeling or do you have any actual evidence to support your assertion? The ring main will carry the same current as any extension cables!!!!
 
Depends on the actual loads you'll have connected, but what I did, was get a 12-way PDU, which I mounted to the back of my desk & all my stuff plugs into that. I know the total power usage isn't going to be too much though (PC is probably around a 600W max), dock for my work laptop (~150W max), 3 monitors, and a handful of peripherals/chargers.

You've said PCs (as in plural), so depending on how many there are, and how close they're positioned, this might not work for you, but it's an option if you know your current draw is low enough & all items are in the same location. You could always get a power meter to plug into & leave it running for a week or so of normal usage & see what it says your peak usage is.

Personally, the rule of thumb I go with:
1. At least 1 double socket per location
2. No more than ~2kw on a single connection, as long as the expension/PDU is suitably rated for this.
3. No more than 1 daisychained extension, and even then, only lower powered devices (chargers etc) onthe daisychained extension. (You'll most likely be fine with de-rating any daisychained extensions by 50% at each daisychain, so 2nd extension in the run is 50% of rating, next would be 25% etc)
 
R.C.Anderson said:
Depends on the actual loads you'll have connected, but what I did, was get a 12-way PDU, which I mounted to the back of my desk & all my stuff plugs into that. I know the total power usage isn't going to be too much though (PC is probably around a 600W max), dock for my work laptop (~150W max), 3 monitors, and a handful of peripherals/chargers.

You've said PCs (as in plural), so depending on how many there are, and how close they're positioned, this might not work for you, but it's an option if you know your current draw is low enough & all items are in the same location. You could always get a power meter to plug into & leave it running for a week or so of normal usage & see what it says your peak usage is.

Personally, the rule of thumb I go with:
1. At least 1 double socket per location
2. No more than ~2kw on a single connection, as long as the expension/PDU is suitably rated for this.
3. No more than 1 daisychained extension, and even then, only lower powered devices (chargers etc) onthe daisychained extension. (You'll most likely be fine with de-rating any daisychained extensions by 50% at each daisychain, so 2nd extension in the run is 50% of rating, next would be 25% etc)
Click to expand...

Thanks... some logic at least and explanation :) I'm definitely under 2000W even if EVERYTHING was switched on at once which it never is... One monitor means usually one or two devices powered on and connected by the KVM
 
GR63 said:
Thanks... some logic at least and explanation :) I'm definitely under 2000W even if EVERYTHING was switched on at once which it never is... One monitor means usually one or two devices powered on and connected by the KVM
Click to expand...
How spread out are your items & how many wall sockets do you have?

This is similar to the PDU that I have (mine has a 3m cable, but they don't seem to stock it currently). Maybe 2 of those, each into it's own wall socket, spaced according to the location of your devices? You can get ones with more sockets (especially if you go with C13 sockets, but that has other limitations, such as no fusing for individual devices), but they seem to get a lot more expensive from a quick look.
 
R.C.Anderson said:
How spread out are your items & how many wall sockets do you have?

This is similar to the PDU that I have (mine has a 3m cable, but they don't seem to stock it currently). Maybe 2 of those, each into it's own wall socket, spaced according to the location of your devices? You can get ones with more sockets (especially if you go with C13 sockets, but that has other limitations, such as no fusing for individual devices), but they seem to get a lot more expensive from a quick look.
Click to expand...

Most inside a 6 feet spread on the wall. The room has two double sockets, only one on this side of the room I can use. I'm not worried about my current setup which would definitely trigger the "get an electrician" crowd but I am tempted to have my double socket changed for one of those 4 socket specials, and get two 10 socket extensions for most of the kit and keep the other two sockets for a freezer (my office is sub optimal because I have a wife who decided she wanted the freezer in it AND I have to share it with my cats bedroom (so never worth buying a good chair cos cats have claws!)) and my WiFi network which is also powerline and needs to be close to the office door.

But THANKS for sharing the PDU link... I could get two of those mounted into my desk setup and have spare socket or two :)
 
GR63 said:
So is this just a feeling or do you have any actual evidence to support your assertion? The ring main will carry the same current as any extension cables!!!!
Click to expand...

The ring will be with 2.5mm cable your extensions will be way less, 0.75 or 1mm if your lucky.

Every plug you have in the chain adds potential issues with more resistance and voltage drop, like others have said there's a good reason regs exist and you can't just normally go and buy a 20 way PDU with a normal domestic plug on the end.
 
Either way the first extension will have a 13A fuse so that’s the most you can draw from it.

It should have at least a 1mm cable which is fine for short distances but longer distances will need 1.25mm or 1.5mm. It shouldn’t have a 0.75mm cable as that’s not thick enough for a 13A fuse and is usually used on lamps and stuff like that with a 6A fuse.

The main issue with cheap extensions is they are usually terrible quality. Low quality units with the thinnest cable possible add a lot of resistance which translates into voltage drop and you need to start drawing more current to get the same power out. So once you start stacking them, you compound this issue.

Those 4 socket specials and anything over 2 sockets get fused down to 13A at the wall, they are effectively just an extension lead mounted into a wall. If it’s a stud wall, extending the ring main to an extra double socket is an absolute doddle as they can be cut in above and you don’t need to move/extend any of the core wiring.

That said, this can be done safely by using a good quality high socket count PDU and clearly you are not plugging in high draw appliances. It’s rather overkill to get 20 sockets installed on one wall.

Perhaps also consider consolidating down how many individual devices you have, if you seldom use them, you probably don’t need them.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Either way the first extension will have a 13A fuse so that’s the most you can draw from it.

It should have at least a 1mm cable which is fine for short distances but longer distances will need 1.25mm or 1.5mm. It shouldn’t have a 0.75mm cable as that’s not thick enough for a 13A fuse and is usually used on lamps and stuff like that with a 6A fuse.

The main issue with cheap extensions is they are usually terrible quality. Low quality units with the thinnest cable possible add a lot of resistance which translates into voltage drop and you need to start drawing more current to get the same power out. So once you start stacking them, you compound this issue.

Those 4 socket specials and anything over 2 sockets get fused down to 13A at the wall, they are effectively just an extension lead mounted into a wall. If it’s a stud wall, extending the ring main to an extra double socket is an absolute doddle as they can be cut in above and you don’t need to move/extend any of the core wiring.

That said, this can be done safely by using a good quality high socket count PDU and clearly you are not plugging in high draw appliances. It’s rather overkill to get 20 sockets installed on one wall.

Perhaps also consider consolidating down how many individual devices you have, if you seldom use them, you probably don’t need them.
Click to expand...

You made sense until the last sentence when its NOT your business to suggest if I need them :-D .... but thank you and the advice on extension leads is good.. worth opening and checking quality!
 
sovietspybob said:
The ring will be with 2.5mm cable your extensions will be way less, 0.75 or 1mm if your lucky.

Every plug you have in the chain adds potential issues with more resistance and voltage drop, like others have said there's a good reason regs exist and you can't just normally go and buy a 20 way PDU with a normal domestic plug on the end.
Click to expand...

Strangely enough I found JUST that.. a 20 way PDU with normal plug... but yeah as born2sk8 said... checking the wire sizes a good idea
 
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