EV general discussion

[b0rn2sk8]

More slow AC chargers means you need far less expensive rapids.

More chargers from a wide range of CPO’s will mean competition and lower prices.

Or alternatively the investment could be put into local government controlled chargers which are priced appropriately. Not all the money needed to be spent on chargers either, putting in place things to enable chargers to be installed would also be useful.

At the end of the day, high public charging costs are very much a U.K. issue. Hop over to Spain, France, Belgium, etc and you’ll find public charging at far lower prices than the U.K.

Whether you like the brand or not but Tesla seem to be the only CPO who are bringing rapid charging at semi reasonable prices. Hop over to Europe and the other CPOs compete with Tesla on pricing and are often cheaper.

 

[chanjy]

At the end of the day, high public charging costs are very much a U.K. issue. Hop over to Spain, France, Belgium, etc and you’ll find public charging at far lower prices than the U.K.

Whether you like the brand or not but Tesla seem to be the only CPO who are bringing rapid charging at semi reasonable prices. Hop over to Europe and the other CPOs compete with Tesla on pricing and are often cheaper.

UK electricity is more expensive in general unfortunately.

Add full whack VAT to that and crazy standing & capacity charges you don't have a recipe for cheap charging

 

[jpaul]

Still have to pose the question how tesla achieve this ? they were first to market got the real estate cheaper or were local to the best/cheapest grid connection point ..
or moreover it is subsidised by the price/running cost of their cars (until eu governments said you can't monopolise charging locations)
e: gift horse .....

 

[msmalls74]

I totally agree with this. My previous 640D could get 650 miles on a tank of diesel and cost roughly £90 to fill up just once. Compare that to my EV with a range of 300 miles, for the same mileage I'd have to charge twice and I think it would cost more to run depending on the level of extortion price per kWh from the charger company.

It's unlikely they will reduce the VAT on electricity from public chargers even though you pay 5% VAT when charging at home.

When EVs can do 600+ miles per charge it may actually harm the public charging infrastructure. Imagine if the price got so high and the EV community banded together using some sort of app and started renting out their chargers for passing traffic.

The new Merc CLA WLTP is approx 480 miles so let's say 400 real miles. Ionity sub (as the Merc is 800v only anyway) is £11 a month but that brings price per KWh to 43p. That works out about £66 including the ionity sub for about 600 miles.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

UK electricity is more expensive in general unfortunately.

Add full whack VAT to that and crazy standing & capacity charges you don't have a recipe for cheap charging

It was more that the differential between Tesla supercharger and say Ionity pricing in the U.K. is more than in Europe.

I’ve not bothered checking a load of chargers but here are a couple in the same area:

Tesla Folkestone: 47p/kwh (contactless or via app)
Ionity Folkestone 79p/kWh or 75p/kwh via app

Tesla Calais: 42c/kwh or 49c/kwh form 4-8pm
Ionity Calais: 59c/kwh or 55c/kwh via the app.

Both sets of chargers are within a few miles of each end of the eurotunnel terminal, both are prices without subscription

10-15c difference in Europe, 28p difference in the UK.

 

[chanjy]

The new Merc CLA WLTP is approx 480 miles so let's say 400 real miles. Ionity sub (as the Merc is 800v only anyway) is £11 a month but that brings price per KWh to 43p. That works out about £66 including the ionity sub for about 600 miles.

In fairness unless you live very close to an IONITY site you'd be a little restricted since they aren't exactly everywhere

 

[msmalls74]

In fairness unless you live very close to an IONITY site you'd be a little restricted since they aren't exactly everywhere

True but ionity seem to live at the motorway services. The services near me have something like 18 or so and with a big range its probably quite workable. Still, I only recommend getting at EV if you can charge at home.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Still have to pose the question how tesla achieve this ? they were first to market got the real estate cheaper or were local to the best/cheapest grid connection point ..
or moreover it is subsidised by the price/running cost of their cars (until eu governments said you can't monopolise charging locations)
e: gift horse .....

Probably None of those things in reality, the charging business is profitable on its own. I’d be thinking more long these lines:

Vertical integration - they design and produce their own hardware and have full control of the software stack. All the large CPOs buy in hardware and software that someone else makes. They also run all the billing for the 3rd party owned superchargers.


Cost of capital- I expect Tesla, particularly in the early days, were able to raise capital at a lower cost. They are cash positive these days unlike most CPO’s who are financed by debt and that has a cost.


Grid capacity - I’m pretty Tesla only provision at most 100kw per stall for a V3/4 supercharger site, that number surprises a lot of people. I don’t know how much Ionity or Gridserve typically provision per stall, it may be more or less. Given the wide range of cars that use those networks, many of which charge quite slow, it may be similar.

Edit: the other obvious one is higher utilisation. They have a fleet of cars that directs customers to their own chargers by default. Higher utilisation means more of the fixed costs are spread over more customers. You can then offer more aggressive pricing which drives even higher utilisation.

 

[Simon]

Right, just booked with octopus for the Hypervolt 3 Pro charger install
DNO has already emailed to say my fuse needs changing out and appointment already booked within 30 mins...that was quick!
Waiting to for the octopus team to call me back to get the charger install scheduled (when I called them, they said that their website scheduling page is down)

That was surprisingly painless...lets hope the install goes the same too

Did you contact the DNO? Or octopus did? I kind of assumed they would on my behalf but seems not:

Why can Ohme not contact the DNO on your behalf?
Due to GDPR regulations, we are unable to contact the DNO on your behalf. However, we can provide you with their contact number so you can reach out to them directly.

Ohme Pro has organised the install for 21st with pics and my comments clearly showing I'm looped (100A fuse though)

 

[tamzzy]

Did you contact the DNO? Or octopus did? I kind of assumed they would on my behalf but seems not:

Octopus contacted the dno and dno emailed me

 

[tom_e]

Did you contact the DNO? Or octopus did? I kind of assumed they would on my behalf but seems not:

Why can Ohme not contact the DNO on your behalf?
Due to GDPR regulations, we are unable to contact the DNO on your behalf. However, we can provide you with their contact number so you can reach out to them directly.

Ohme Pro has organised the install for 21st with pics and my comments clearly showing I'm looped (100A fuse though)

Sounds like they just can't be bothered, everything should be handled by the installer.

 

[TheVoice]

It was more that the differential between Tesla supercharger and say Ionity pricing in the U.K. is more than in Europe.

I’ve not bothered checking a load of chargers but here are a couple in the same area:

Tesla Folkestone: 47p/kwh (contactless or via app)
Ionity Folkestone 79p/kWh or 75p/kwh via app

Tesla Calais: 42c/kwh or 49c/kwh form 4-8pm
Ionity Calais: 59c/kwh or 55c/kwh via the app.

Both sets of chargers are within a few miles of each end of the eurotunnel terminal, both are prices without subscription

10-15c difference in Europe, 28p difference in the UK.

This is why I'm grateful I've got Arnold Clark and now First Charge near me, 55p and 39p respectively, for now at least.

 

[Draeger]

Does anyone use their 'granny charger' which came with their EV?

My Taycan GTS arrives tomorrow and the OPC have provided a Porsche Mobile Charger with it. I've submitted my online survey details to OVO to have them attend and fit a Zappi to the wall but in the meantime (no idea how long it will take OVO to give me a date for fitting the wall box?) I was planning on using local public chargers (with the Porsche Charging Card) until the wall box is fitted but thought the PMC might be fine for the odd top up here and there? It would be on a standard domestic plug though so I'm aware it'll take a while to add any range.

Or just persevere with the public chargers until OVO do their thing?

 

[MrRockliffe]

Does anyone use their 'granny charger' which came with their EV?

My Taycan GTS arrives tomorrow and the OPC have provided a Porsche Mobile Charger with it. I've submitted my online survey details to OVO to have them attend and fit a Zappi to the wall but in the meantime (no idea how long it will take OVO to give me a date for fitting the wall box?) I was planning on using local public chargers (with the Porsche Charging Card) until the wall box is fitted but thought the PMC might be fine for the odd top up here and there? It would be on a standard domestic plug though so I'm aware it'll take a while to add any range.

Or just persevere with the public chargers until OVO do their thing?

I’ve used one with the ID.7 and had to do so for a few weeks until I moved to the property I’m now at, which has a wall charger.


It took a long time to charge but it did the job.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Yes, when you fist use it make sure the socket isn’t getting g hot. Check it every 15-20 mins or so for a few hours.

Worn sockets or poorly terminated cables tend to get a bit melty.

If you use an extension lead, make sure it’s rare for 13A (many aren’t) and make sure it is fully unwound (I’d avoid any which coil unless they are super heavy duty) and spread out.

 

[Journey]

Does anyone use their 'granny charger' which came with their EV?

Used it loads, still have it as backup for myself/others. 3-pin usefulness should not be underrated, you'll be surprised just how much range you add when you are leaving the car sat doing nothing for 95-99% of it's life. Limited to 10A after losses you can put 2kWh per hour (joke in there somewhere) in your car, so if you go 9pm to 9am on a Friday night etc. that's 24kWh added, or ~100 miles of range in summer weather.

 

[tom_e]

Does anyone use their 'granny charger' which came with their EV?

My Taycan GTS arrives tomorrow and the OPC have provided a Porsche Mobile Charger with it. I've submitted my online survey details to OVO to have them attend and fit a Zappi to the wall but in the meantime (no idea how long it will take OVO to give me a date for fitting the wall box?) I was planning on using local public chargers (with the Porsche Charging Card) until the wall box is fitted but thought the PMC might be fine for the odd top up here and there? It would be on a standard domestic plug though so I'm aware it'll take a while to add any range.

Or just persevere with the public chargers until OVO do their thing?

Entirely depends on your usage. If you only do a few miles a day the granny charger will be fine.

 

[Draeger]

Thanks, all. This is my first foray into the world of EV's so I'm looking forward to learning all about the charging side of things but I'll be a bit happier once the Zappi is installed.

Local Starbucks has 300kW ESB chargers so I'm looking forward to lots of cinnamon buns and Chai Latte's

 

[Journey]

Local Starbucks has 300kW ESB chargers so I'm looking forward to lots of cinnamon buns and Chai Latte's

Unless you do mega miles, don't look forward to them too often.

 

[pastymuncher]

The new Merc CLA WLTP is approx 480 miles so let's say 400 real miles. Ionity sub (as the Merc is 800v only anyway) is £11 a month but that brings price per KWh to 43p. That works out about £66 including the ionity sub for about 600 miles.

Even though £66 for 600 miles on a public charger is not too bad it is still expensive compared to what I am paying at home. There is no way I would have a EV if I didn't have my own charger. I am on Tomato so overnight I get 6 hours at 5p per kWh which equates to a penny a mile with my Gen 2 Leaf although I have nowhere near the range that car has.

Does anyone use their 'granny charger' which came with their EV?

My Taycan GTS arrives tomorrow and the OPC have provided a Porsche Mobile Charger with it. I've submitted my online survey details to OVO to have them attend and fit a Zappi to the wall but in the meantime (no idea how long it will take OVO to give me a date for fitting the wall box?) I was planning on using local public chargers (with the Porsche Charging Card) until the wall box is fitted but thought the PMC might be fine for the odd top up here and there? It would be on a standard domestic plug though so I'm aware it'll take a while to add any range.

Or just persevere with the public chargers until OVO do their thing?

Using the granny charger isn't too bad, it's just slow. I had a Nissan one come with my Leaf but it was only 5m so I had to buy a 10m one to reach the car. It did the job while I was waiting for my charger to be installed and I still got a cheap rate overnight from Octopus, I just had to use the car itself to control the charge. Like the others have said keep checking that it doesn't get too hot although if you stick to 8A or less you should be ok.