A man cautioned for carrying a bladed trowel in public

[SexyGreyFox]

Last year I was detained at Manchester Airport for 55 mins and taken to a side room.
Did I argue? - No
Did I make a fuss? - No
Did I let them get on with their job? - Yes
Was I actually within the law? - Yes
Did I write to my local MP crying my eyes out? - No
Did I go to my local newspaper crying my eyes out? - No
I accepted I should have put them in the tray in view

 

[marin]

I own a small woodland with my two brothers - we keep all bladed tools in a bag in the boot of the car - they are never on display and would not carry them in public.

If I was stopped by the police in the car, I can prove ownership of the woodland, but as a backup one of my brothers is a Barrister.

 

[deviation]

I own a small woodland with my two brothers - we keep all bladed tools in a bag in the boot of the car - they are never on display and would not carry them in public.

If I was stopped by the police in the car, I can prove ownership of the woodland, but as a backup one of my brothers is a Barrister.

Worst come worst, you can stab the police, throw them in the boot of the car, and bury them in the woodland, it's a win win!

 

[Tattysnuc]

I was flying to Ireland a couple of years ago, having just come back off a camping trip in the lakes. I used my big rucsac, which kept triggering the alarms when they scanned my bag.
I got pulled over to one side after running it through for a third time - they couldn't see what the item was on the machine, but it was something metal and heavy. It ended up that my 5 1/2 inch lock knife that I'd had since I was in the scouts back in the early 80's, was in one of the inside pockets still from the prior camping trip.
Mortified I was escorted to a side room to explain the item, and after remonstrating with airport coppers for about 30 minutes they eventually agreed to NOT destroy it, and that I could retrieve it when I returned, which I did.
They wrapped it in so much tape and bubble wrap I needed to get it home and get another knife on it to open it up. I was so grateful.

Top bloke & lady coppers for the way that they listened and used their discretion.

Mistakes happen to all of us.

 

[Rroff]

which kept triggering the alarms when they scanned my bag

I had the opposite happen some years back - caught several flights and I had a belt with a substantial metal buckle and when travelling I keep a backup wallet with a bit of change (amongst other things) which I'd forgotten about and didn't put through on the tray. Went through 4 airports without anything happening, which is a bit concerning, then the 5th it sets off the alarms and the guy gets funny about the belt as well.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Using "they" is ungendering. Sure sure. Everyone knows ttaskmaster specified a pronoun and using "they" to refer to someone in the third person is super new and trendy and not ancient.

If you're being genuine about it, then by your own terms you're misgendering as pronouns had not been specified, while also assuming my gender.
Otherwise you're just being a **** about it.

It's time for every chip on the shoulder, genders, murderers, rapists, knife crime (the irony), ethnicity.

The only issue I have is the hypocrisy and inconsistency people demonstate toward the issues you've just listed.

This case was an ignorant person doubling down on being ignorant by taking a police interview without legal representation. And you think being given a caution is them coming down hard on a muppet.

Compared to many other similar situations where the individuals in question were more deliberate in their actions, and merely kiven a kindly reminder that they'd acted questionably, this was pretty overkill.

Is 3" still the biggest knife you can carry?

You can carry most things if you have a good reason.
What constitutes good reason is massively subjective, but is (or should be) at the discretion of the attending officer and is down to the context of your carrying it and the manner in which you conduct yourself.

Top bloke & lady coppers for the way that they listened and used their discretion.
Mistakes happen to all of us.

If those officers were 'enforcing the law as written', you should have spent 4 years in prison...

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Went through the scanners about 10 years ago and it kept triggering but I kept saying there's nothing in my pockets and my belt is off.
They used a hand scanner and said take that out of your pocket - it was my passport - I never knew that would trigger the scanners.
Anyway there were 51 of us going to Cyprus and the flight came up on the board to go to the gate.
We're walking when the tannoy said "Can Mr SexyGreyFox please go to security".
Security hadn't given me my passport back

 

[Hotwired]

If you're being genuine about it, then by your own terms you're misgendering as pronouns had not been specified, while also assuming my gender.
Otherwise you're just being a **** about it.

Point out for me, where you saw me assuming your gender since you've got a lot to say about that. I have referred to you as ttaskmaster, your chosen tag.

If that isn't right to you, then you have a monopoly on being a ****.

If those officers were 'enforcing the law as written', you should have spent 4 years in prison...

Are you ever going to actually read the law.

4 years is the maximum possible, on a range that drops down through community orders to a fine at the very bottom. And that's if it goes to court and you're found guilty.

If you accept a caution you don't even stand up for yourself and it doesn't even get looked at for going to court. It's you saying "fair cop guv" but you get a much lesser penalty than if you did go to court and were found guilty.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Point out for me, where you saw me assuming your gender since you've got a lot to say about that.

You as the impersonal pronoun.

Are you ever going to actually read the law.

What for?
It seems the Police don't care about it and only enforce it when it's easy, or whenever and however they feel like it.

If you accept a caution you don't even stand up for yourself and it doesn't even get looked at for going to court.

It shouldn't have even gone as far as an arrest.
Middle-aged bloke carrying gardening equipment, plus the waste from his gardening activities as further proof, known to be on his way home from a place of gardening - No-one with an ounce of common sense would have armed Police bang him up against the wall like some urban gangstah caught with a flick knife....

 

[scarps]

I remember going to Cheltenham horse racing festival and nearly had a experience that might not have been good.

We were going to London afterwards so had to check in some suit cases and bags at the course. I had picked up my work rucksack on the way out as I wanted to put a few things in there for the journey, I'm a gardener,stroke handyman.
Traveled down on train and we were about a dozen people away from the check in area where they were opening cases and checking bags when I suddenly had a bad thought.

Spent the next 15 mins trying to find a bin out of sight to throw away Stanley knife blades, secateurs, a pocket knife and a load of pin nails.

No idea what would have happened if I hadn't realised in time.

 

[Hotwired]

You as the impersonal pronoun.


What for?
It seems the Police don't care about it and only enforce it when it's easy, or whenever and however they feel like it.


It shouldn't have even gone as far as an arrest.
Middle-aged bloke carrying gardening equipment, plus the waste from his gardening activities as further proof, known to be on his way home from a place of gardening - No-one with an ounce of common sense would have armed Police bang him up against the wall like some urban gangstah caught with a flick knife....

Getting some hot news from ttaskmaster today, "you" is now a gender and ttaskmaster believes using it is an assumption of gender. What a load of absolute tripe.

If you're going to talk trash about what the police are able to do, maybe know what the police are able to do? Like a 4 year prison sentence isn't up to them. They can get it started towards a court and some completely different people will decide if the police are even right to have put it forward. Then there's the actual court.

There's a trend, you're outraged, uninformed and determined to stay that way.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Getting some hot news from ttaskmaster today, "you" is now a gender and ttaskmaster believes using it is an assumption of gender. What a load of absolute tripe.

Not what I said at all - How on earth did you reach that perspective?

If you're going to talk trash about what the police are able to do, maybe know what the police are able to do? Like a 4 year prison sentence isn't up to them.

Sarcasm and sardonicism not your strong suits, then?

 

[Hotwired]

Not what I said at all - How on earth did you reach that perspective?

They do not agree with your assertion... nor thy ungendering.

If you're being genuine about it, then by your own terms you're misgendering as pronouns had not been specified, while also assuming my gender.
Otherwise you're just being a **** about it.

Truly the tripe intensifies.

You can't defend that someone ungendered you. You can't point out where your gender was assumed. And you deny you're even talking about the person you're talking to. Amazing how you're talking about an imaginary position having terms that have not been described.

The much shorter understanding is you're full of it. What a stupid position for you to take for no reason at all.

Sarcasm and sardonicism not your strong suits, then?

Where do you get the belief that you have credibility to sell ignorance as sarcasm and not have it simply be seen as ignorance.

I've not seen you say anything with more depth than selected story details and how outraged you are about it.

 

[Haggisman]

The thread title should be changed to be honest, at least put "trowel" in quotes.

Sure, they are marketed differently, but for all practical purposes, what is the difference between this:

And this:

The first one has a cross-guard, and the handle is a slightly different shape, that's basically it...

 

[koolpc]

Apparently guy had 3 hoes with him......
Its reported that the police said to him;

"Ho, ho ho, what have we got here then!?"

 

[SpellowHouse]

Yeah, he was stupid.
When they say you need a reason, you need a reason that you can prove.
A good reason is largely taken as "for your employment". If you are following a hobby or leisure activity then you pretty much have no proof and you will get a caution.
These days it's wise to put tools in a bag before you go somewhere.

 

[Haggisman]

Yeah, he was stupid.
When they say you need a reason, you need a reason that you can prove.
A good reason is largely taken as "for your employment". If you are following a hobby or leisure activity then you pretty much have no proof and you will get a caution.

That depends...

It's not exclusive to "for employment", but the good reason needs to apply at that time.

If you're sat next to a lake/river, rod in the water, gutting a fish, you have a good reason at that time and you almost certainly won't get in trouble for having a knife (assuming it's not on the banned list).
If you're on a beach and you're battoning some kindling to light a campfire, you have a good reason at that time and you almost certainly won't get in trouble for having a knife (assuming you are allowed to light fires on the beach).
If you're travelling to/from a lake/river and you have a gutting knife in your tackle box tucked away in your backpack or in the boot of your car, you almost certainly won't get in trouble for it.
If you're walking from your car to the beach with a bundle of firewood and a picnic basket with some sausages/marshmallows/etc. a knife and some fire-lighting tools in it, you almost certainly won't get in trouble for it.
If you're walking to/from the lake/river/beach with that same knife on your belt, you do not have a good reason to have the knife on your belt at the time, and it should be stored securely.


That still applies to tools of the trade. A chef with a couple of kitchen knives in a roll, safely secured in a backpack on the tube on the way to a shift is going to be fine. A chef with a kitchen knife tucked into their belt on the tube on the way to a night out on the other hand...

Edit: of course the safest* option is to limit your carry to a non-locking folding knife with <3" blade, but if you can prove a good reason (and hobbies are a good reason, just significantly harder to prove) then it's not quite black and white



* safest in terms of legality, safety of your fingers may be another matter!

 

[Tattysnuc]

If those officers were 'enforcing the law as written', you should have spent 4 years in prison...

Ouch! Just as well I've got an honest face... That makes me all the more grateful to the security staff!

 

[ttaskmaster]

You can't defend that someone ungendered you. You can't point out where your gender was assumed.

It's an accusation, not a defence, and I already have pointed out where the term used is both ungendering and assumes my gender as non-binary.

And you deny you're even talking about the person you're talking to. Amazing how you're talking about an imaginary position having terms that have not been described.

Firstly, you're conflating the occasions when I was talking to you, and previously to someone else.
Secondly, in this most recent exchange where you are deliberately failing to observe the impersonal pronoun, I was very clearly talking to you.

Where do you get the belief that you have credibility to sell ignorance as sarcasm and not have it simply be seen as ignorance.

What makes you think I'm selling anything?
I don't care what you like to think is right here... but you can bet I'll advocate you getting the same level of treatment if you ever find yourself in a similar situation.

I've not seen you say anything with more depth than selected story details and how outraged you are about it.

You see what you want to see.

 

[Hotwired]

I don't care what you like to think is right here... but you can bet I'll advocate you getting the same level of treatment if you ever find yourself in a similar situation.

Yes, fantasise that I'll be walking down the street with a large dagger on a belt to get (correctly) accused of breaking knife law, (correctly) arrested, and taken to a police station to decide how I want to argue my position. Wash your hands afterwards.

I transport more controlled items than knives and they are always covered up, the worst anyone could say is they see me with a long case. And in case of any issues, I know I'm legal and will be able to describe why instead of mumbling that I didn't do nothing or assumed or didn't think about it.

It's your responsibility to know the law before you prat about with controlled items. Saying you can't be bothered to know it because you reckon the police make it up, well, good luck with that.