Volkswagen charges a subscription for full engine power

[Minstadave]

Audi are charging a subscription of adaptive cruise too. Which makes even less sense than this. They're putting the radar in every car, but you can only use it if you pay up.

 

[Kenai]

Audi are charging a subscription of adaptive cruise too. Which makes even less sense than this. They're putting the radar in every car, but you can only use it if you pay up.

Makes more sense if they're using the same radar unit for AEB which IIRC is a mandatory requirement for new cars now - which would come back to the argument I mentioned earlier - if a piece of shared equipment is installed to perform function A but could theoretically perform function B too, are you entitled to function B, just because the part is present to perform function A?

 

[Bear]

£600+ to turn on something which the car already has is a scam and overpriced for a measley 20hp.

Or you could look at it the other way and say you got more than you paid for because you got the brakes and suspension upgrades for a car you didnt pay for i.e. the more powerful version

 

[Terminal_Boy]

I can do that with my Mustang. It's called 'adding a Whipple'.

Is there something you can fit to keep Mustangs from going sideways into stuff?

 

[MissChief]

Is there something you can fit to keep Mustangs from going sideways into stuff?

Yes. A steering lock and immobiliser. It's the only way.

 

[ICDP]

Yea but they also don't detune themselves when you stop paying monthly or sell it to a new owner, who then has to subscribe

You can pay the entire unlock fee up front just like those other cars.

£600+ to turn on something which the car already has is a scam and overpriced for a measley 20hp.

Better off getting a tuner to do it and keep it quiet. A car which has had a few owners will make it hard to pin it on someone if they chase it. Also a used buyer hasn't agreed to VM's terms.

It’s not 20hp it’s 27hp and the difference in performance is 6.6 vs 7.3 seconds 0-62mph. I have seen people pay thousands for less of an increase.

The issue is not new and as outlined there are many occasions of such practices for increased engine tuning being locked behind an up front cost.

It’s the subscription model that seems to be the biggest complaint.

 

[MissChief]

You can pay the entire unlock fee up front just like those other cars.



It’s not 20hp it’s 27hp and the difference in performance is 6.6 vs 7.3 seconds 0-62mph. I have seen people pay thousands for less of an increase.

The issue is not new and as outlined there are many occasions of such practices for increased engine tuning being locked behind an up front cost.

It’s the subscription model that seems to be the biggest complaint.

I can see the benefit on a temporary upgrade, say a holiday with luggage and four adults for example. Paying a small fee for a bit extra when you're fully loaded appeals. The monthly subscription seems like it's another punishment for the poor. Many may not be able to afford the large single payment but can afford the £12pm (or however much it is) and end up paying close to, or even more than the one off fee if they keep the car for long enough.

 

[ICDP]

I can see the benefit on a temporary upgrade, say a holiday with luggage and four adults for example. Paying a small fee for a bit extra when you're fully loaded appeals. The monthly subscription seems like it's another punishment for the poor. Many may not be able to afford the large single payment but can afford the £12pm (or however much it is) and end up paying close to, or even more than the one off fee if they keep the car for long enough.

Yeah this is where I see the benefits. I used matrix lights on a monthly £30 subscription on my E-Tron for a few of the darker winter months. Much cheaper than paying the £1500 up front costs.

 

[Mr Jack]

I hope there's push back on this. Cars have always had weird options that are really just changing something that is always there, e.g. heated wingmirrors in Lotus' where you're paying for the switch on the dash and they fit the same wingmirror regardless, as well as the mentioned tunes on the same engine, but I think charging as a subscription is a new low. I don't want features of a car dependent on the maintenance of infrastructure to check whether you're allowed to do X. It's a dark road to head down.

 

[MissChief]

I hope there's push back on this. Cars have always had weird options that are really just changing something that is always there, e.g. heated wingmirrors in Lotus' where you're paying for the switch on the dash and they fit the same wingmirror regardless, as well as the mentioned tunes on the same engine, but I think charging as a subscription is a new low. I don't want features of a car dependent on the maintenance of infrastructure to check whether you're allowed to do X. It's a dark road to head down.

I can see the benefits in some situations. Heated seats and steering wheel for November to February for £50 compared to paying £1200 for both options permanently when either or both options are highly unlikely to add anything to resale value? Sounds like a decent deal. And if you don't like them but your next buyer does, they can still buy your car and add them if they wish. Loads of people on here and across the Internet being put off used cars because the cars they're looking at have a multitude of packs or options and some or most cars don't have them. What if every car had them, they just need turned on/paid for? As long as the price paid for the car withoutis less than the car with the option then the next buyer benefits. It does mean though that the manufacturers get something from the second or third buyer when they traditionally never have, and I suspect this is the ultimate end goal, income from the second, third or even fourth buyer.

 

[robj20]

ECUs have been becoming locked down and encrypted for at least the last 10 years removing the ability to remap full stop, again there was no big hooha about that which personally seems even worse as it completely removes any ability to fiddle with something you own. You've always been breaching an agreement when remapping a car anyway, if the engine goes pop the warranty isn't going to cover it.

I can do more to my ECU than most dealers with a free bit of software. Guess it depends on the manufacturer. I can go as deep altering the feeling of the steering to how many wipes the wipers make.

 

[tom_e]

I can do more to my ECU than most dealers with a free bit of software. Guess it depends on the manufacturer. I can go as deep altering the feeling of the steering to how many wipes the wipers make.

That's not the same as remapping though. I could do that in my Seat but no one had worked out how to crack the ECU to actually remap it.

 

[Mr Jack]

As long as the price paid for the car withoutis less than the car with the option then the next buyer benefits. It does mean though that the manufacturers get something from the second or third buyer when they traditionally never have, and I suspect this is the ultimate end goal, income from the second, third or even fourth buyer.

This is the crux, isn't it? I suspect that this is simply the early stages of boiling the frog. Establish the idea with some niceties alongside the offer of one-time payments and then, once people have got used to the idea, drop the option for one-time payments, pull more core stuff into it, and jack up the prices. I wouldn't be too surprised if this eventually leads to pay-to-drive subscriptions if it is allowed now.

And, yeah, you can call that a slippery slope argument if you like but I think it follows the pattern we've seen elsewhere. Companies love to replace one off payments with subscriptions.

 

[MissChief]

This is the crux, isn't it? I suspect that this is simply the early stages of boiling the frog. Establish the idea with some niceties alongside the offer of one-time payments and then, once people have got used to the idea, drop the option for one-time payments, pull more core stuff into it, and jack up the prices. I wouldn't be too surprised if this eventually leads to pay-to-drive subscriptions if it is allowed now.

And, yeah, you can call that a slippery slope argument if you like but I think it follows the pattern we've seen elsewhere. Companies love to replace one off payments with subscriptions.

There was a case of Tesla removing features from a car that had been sold on to a second owner, with Tesla claiming the second buyer hadn't paid for the options. The backlash was great and they relented and reinstated the functions, but how long before thst becomes commonplace? When a manufacturer gets a ping from DVLA that a car has a new keeper and then options are removed and a request for payment pops up on the screen?

 

[Nasher]

There was a case of Tesla removing features from a car that had been sold on to a second owner, with Tesla claiming the second buyer hadn't paid for the options. The backlash was great and they relented and reinstated the functions, but how long before thst becomes commonplace? When a manufacturer gets a ping from DVLA that a car has a new keeper and then options are removed and a request for payment pops up on the screen?

Disconnecting it from the internet would become a popular mod

 

[Haggisman]

I can see the benefits in some situations. Heated seats and steering wheel for November to February for £50 compared to paying £1200 for both options permanently when either or both options are highly unlikely to add anything to resale value? Sounds like a decent deal. And if you don't like them but your next buyer does, they can still buy your car and add them if they wish. Loads of people on here and across the Internet being put off used cars because the cars they're looking at have a multitude of packs or options and some or most cars don't have them. What if every car had them, they just need turned on/paid for? As long as the price paid for the car withoutis less than the car with the option then the next buyer benefits. It does mean though that the manufacturers get something from the second or third buyer when they traditionally never have, and I suspect this is the ultimate end goal, income from the second, third or even fourth buyer.

This would surely push prices of the "base" model up though? If it had to include all the hardware required to enable those options "just in case", not to mention the massive waste of resources including a whole load of electronics etc. which may literally never be used.

 

[MissChief]

This would surely push prices of the "base" model up though? If it had to include all the hardware required to enable those options "just in case", not to mention the massive waste of resources including a whole load of electronics etc. which may literally never be used.

The manufacturers can generally save by making one set of seats or one type of electronics rather than two or three different types. In many cases you're paying hundreds of pounds for a button on the dash or simple activation on the ECU and the option then appears on the screen.

 

[robj20]

That's not the same as remapping though. I could do that in my Seat but no one had worked out how to crack the ECU to actually remap it.

All three maps are available on mine 150, 180 and 230. As easy as changing a couple of digits.

 

[tom_e]

All three maps are available on mine 150, 180 and 230. As easy as changing a couple of digits.

Ok so yours isn't encrypted, I didn't say all were but it's certainly becoming more common.

 

[Maundie]

Similar to things BMW are offering, high beam assist, adaptive cruise etc. are all over the air to unlock either by a subscription or one off cost, I added heated steering wheel to the Mrs X1 in the Black Friday sale, was available as an option for £250 but when we took delivery of the car (Oct 23) we were offered it over the air for £200, I then saw it for £160 (20% off) on Black Friday so ordered it for her, much to my wifes joy she has toasty hands on a winters morn.

Can't do that with older models as there needs to be a button on the steering wheel but since going to the newer version of iDrive BMW can add all sorts of extra things over the air.

Like it or not subscription services are here to stay as it's another way to guarantee income, how long has MS Office, Acrobat and other software packages been available via subscriptions rather than one off purchase, it's just taken the car manufacturers a while to work out how to incorporate it, if you don't like it don't subscribe.