The Firearms, Shotguns and Shooting Thread

[Noughtboy]

I didn't realise that one could even get licenses for firearms like these in UK. Or that you could even purchase them here. Been here 20 years and just assumed what I was told that firearm ownership is "verboten" barring a shotgun and a .22 never mind assault rifles. Boggles the mind.

I left behind my Glock 23C 40 S&W and Astra A100 40 S&W in satin finish. We shot LM5 which was a civilian version of the R5 which was a licensed version of the IMI Galil in 5.56x45

Those were pretty fun days although underpinned by the real world need for everyday carry so did a fair amount of practical practice and drills (like anti-hijack, personal defence, shooting on the move, behind cover, manoeuvring under fire etc etc).

Laughing a little to myself about your gun safes...I used to sleep with a pistol under my pillow with a spare magazine although to be fair that was BK.

Maybe something to investigate for weekend fun although sounds like ranges are few and far between and licenses a faff

 

[Teknobry]

I didn't realise that one could even get licenses for firearms like these in UK. Or that you could even purchase them here. Been here 20 years and just assumed what I was told that firearm ownership is "verboten" barring a shotgun and a .22 never mind assault rifles. Boggles the mind.

I left behind my Glock 23C 40 S&W and Astra A100 40 S&W in satin finish. We shot LM5 which was a civilian version of the R5 which was a licensed version of the IMI Galil in 5.56x45

Those were pretty fun days although underpinned by the real world need for everyday carry so did a fair amount of practical practice and drills (like anti-hijack, personal defence, shooting on the move, behind cover, manoeuvring under fire etc etc).

Laughing a little to myself about your gun safes...I used to sleep with a pistol under my pillow with a spare magazine although to be fair that was BK.

Maybe something to investigate for weekend fun although sounds like ranges are few and far between and licenses a faff

There are gun clubs all over, once you start an internet search you'll realise there's more than you think.
Don't let the seemingly daunting task of applying put you off, the paperwork feels deliberately long and tedious but it's not that bad, just ask on here or at the club you join if you need advice on filling it in.

 

[Noughtboy]

There are gun clubs all over, once you start an internet search you'll realise there's more than you think.
Don't let the seemingly daunting task of applying put you off, the paperwork feels deliberately long and tedious but it's not that bad, just ask on here or at the club you join if you need advice on filling it in.

What is the legality of pistols as opposed to assault rifles or hunting rifles?

They are more fun, require less strict range setup (back stops/distance/sound), cheaper to run and should self defence need ever arise a lot safer in a house and more practical and use.

Or is self defence not a thing you would ever be allowed to use them for?

 

[Feek]

What is the legality of pistols as opposed to assault rifles or hunting rifles?

There are no handguns on FAC in this country (not of the sort you're imagining), apart from a few for very specific purposes, the average member of the public can't have them. Or assault rifles.

Or is self defence not a thing you would ever be allowed to use them for?

No, never.

I didn't realise that one could even get licenses for firearms like these in UK. Or that you could even purchase them here. Been here 20 years and just assumed what I was told that firearm ownership is "verboten" barring a shotgun and a .22 never mind assault rifles. Boggles the mind.

I think you really need to read up properly on what's allowed. To give you an idea, some of the things on my FAC which I gave up recently were .357 and .44 underlever rifles, some .22 rifles, some shotguns (on FAC rather than SC due to the amount of cartridges that can be loaded), a .357 long barrel revolver (the barrel is 12" and it has a long wrist brace mounted on the grip, taking it to almost rifle length), a .44 black powder revolver, etc.

Nothing fully automatic, no Glock pistols, no S&W revolvers, no assault rifles. They're simply not allowed. The reason for having them all on the ticket was 'target shooting' and 'competition shooting'. If you were to put self defence as a reason, you'd probably end up on a list somewhere

 

[BUDFORCE]

@Feek it depends on your definition of assault rifle, the only difference is you are limited to .22lr otherwise there is no difference between what you can get here and an armalite AR-15.

 

[Feek]

@Feek it depends on your definition of assault rifle, the only difference is you are limited to .22lr otherwise there is no difference between what you can get here and an armalite AR-15.

I think the official definition includes the ability to fire fully automatic.

We can have semi-auto .22s (my Ruger 10/22 was a prime example), but not fully auto.

 

[Noughtboy]

There are no handguns on FAC in this country (not of the sort you're imagining), apart from a few for very specific purposes, the average member of the public can't have them. Or assault rifles.


No, never.


I think you really need to read up properly on what's allowed. To give you an idea, some of the things on my FAC which I gave up recently were .357 and .44 underlever rifles, some .22 rifles, some shotguns (on FAC rather than SC due to the amount of cartridges that can be loaded), a .357 long barrel revolver (the barrel is 12" and it has a long wrist brace mounted on the grip, taking it to almost rifle length), a .44 black powder revolver, etc.

Nothing fully automatic, no Glock pistols, no S&W revolvers, no assault rifles. They're simply not allowed. The reason for having them all on the ticket was 'target shooting' and 'competition shooting'. If you were to put self defence as a reason, you'd probably end up on a list somewhere

Wait, were those AR style weapons above all in semi automatic and .22LR instead of the original 5.56mm etc? Did I misread? I remember seeing 308 etc mentioned (maybe even a Lee Enfield 0.303) but does that only apply to bolt action? I suppose almost irrelavant as rifles not really my thing. I preferred handguns for the reasons outlined above.

How can you manage a 0.357 revolver but a Glock pistol is not allowed? It is also semi automatic. That is more of a technical issue. Perhaps it is magazine capacity instead of the semi-automatic part.

As an aside, my brother owned (and used to carry it daily as his PDW!) a Smith and Wesson Model 29 .44 Magnum in stainless steel with a satin finish (8 3/8ths barrel) - essentially This here . Until, my license came through, I carried it for a couple of weeks in a shoulder holster. Not actually uncomfortable although I thought it a little impractical with limited capacity but he was able to draw and fire (accurately) in 1.2 seconds. That being said, he also used to carry a mix of JHP and SWC in the same load to mix stopping power and penetration which I did not agree with...to me there is always a discrepancy in recoil, trajectory and accuracy.

I used to carry Winchester Black Talons 180gr (until they were withdrawn owing to some bad press!) and then switched to Speer 165gr GDHP. Ah, the good ol' days

 

[Feek]

How can you manage a 0.357 revolver but a Glock pistol is not allowed? It is also semi automatic. That is more of a technical issue. Perhaps it is magazine capacity instead of the semi-automatic part.

Length.

12" barrel, huge wrist brace. It removes any chance whatsoever you can carry it concealed. It's the main pistol in my signature, but the wrist brace is cropped out.

 

[Noughtboy]

Length.

12" barrel, huge wrist brace. It removes any chance whatsoever you can carry it concealed. It's the main pistol in my signature, but the wrist brace is cropped out.

That's a cop out...because of 12'' barrel length not being concealable.

I have been carrying around 12'' concealed now for decades. Yes, it can be more difficult in warm weather or a little tight to use in toilet cubicles but still.

 

[Feek]

Cop out or not, it's how it works here.

And you’re forgetting the wrist brace I mentioned. Look

Taurus mod 66 LBR Long Barrel Revolver .357 Magnum - Bagnall and Kirkwood

Taurus Model 66 .357 Magnum Revolver with 12″ Barrel Matte Stainless Steel with CIP Proofing. Fitted with Long Arm Band UK Legal sold under Section 1 License

bagnallandkirkwood.co.uk

 

[BennoUK]

It wasn't just one thing, it was a combination of stuff. I'd tried to re-join a club I used to be a member of but despite having been a full member previously, being a current FAC holder and being able to demonstrate that I was a qualified range officer, they still wanted me to jump through stupid hoops, take a two day safety course and then be a probationer for six months. That annoyed me more than it should have and as it was only a few months before I was due to renew, it was still very much fresh in my head.

I used to shoot competitively and I was good but there aren't any matches for my class of firearm any more in the country so I hadn't done anything really for a few years, some of my guns hadn't been touched since my previous renewal. The nearest club to me is a bit of a joke, on their web site they say that they are for static target shooting only and if you want to do anything else, don't even ask to join. I used to shoot practical which is about as far from static target shooting as you can get so that club was out.

When it came to renewal time, I simply decided not to go through the renewal process. I have since been given a name of someone locally who runs a club which might be worth a look so I may do that in the summer. Re-applying for the ticket won't be an issue as I still have the cabinet and everything else here so I can go back down the same path again if I want.

Ideally, I'd like somewhere I can just rock up with whatever I fancy, either a black powder pistol, an underlever rifle, a .22 LR rifle or whatever, but where I can just hammer a few rounds into a backstop whenever I feel like it and then sit in the clubhouse for an hour nattering. But that sort of place isn't easy to find.

North Cotes Butts is the club your are looking for, 2x sheltered 25m ranges, 1x 50m range, 1x 100m tunnel, several practical shotgun arenas with steels set up (inc a texas star) and even plenty of clay courses if that is your thing. They do cowboy shoots - the lot. Only thing they dont do is 50cal. Its a long way to go (130 miles for me but well worth it), you can keep your guns in the armoury overnight and they have bunks to stay the night (so you get two trips in in one go).

 

[BUDFORCE]

North Cotes Butts is the club your are looking for, 2x sheltered 25m ranges, 1x 50m range, 1x 100m tunnel, several practical shotgun arenas with steels set up (inc a texas star) and even plenty of clay courses if that is your thing. They do cowboy shoots - the lot. Only thing they dont do is 50cal. Its a long way to go (130 miles for me but well worth it), you can keep your guns in the armoury overnight and they have bunks to stay the night (so you get two trips in in one go).

I'm lucky really I got to 2 ranges, one is literally less than 10 minutes away, although I end up range officer a lot of the time, the other is 30 minutes but it's a really nice venue, they have a 25, 50 and 100 yard/meter? range with about 12 firing points, and they do have steel targets.

 

[DRZ]

Any other FAC/SGC Holders here? What you packing?

I hardly seem to post here any more despite 23 years of membership but tripped over this thread so here I am. It is encouraging to see a good few people here are shooting!

I have, in no particular order:

• Smith & Wesson 1854 lever action in .44 Magnum
• Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 in .22LR (fun but terrible accuracy. Probably getting swapped for a Kriss Defiance or a volquartsen-barreled 10/22 very soon...)
• Taurus .44 Magnum Long Barrel Revolver
• Grand Power K22 X-Trim .22LR Long Barrel Pistol
• CZ 457 .22LR - Match chamber, Varmint barrel, MDT LSS-RF Chassis
• Bergara B14 Match Precision 6.5mm Creedmoor
• Mosin Nagant 91/30 7.62x54R - 1944, Tula Arsenal. Post-war modified (probably early 1970s) to have a period-correct scope mount and PU scope.
• Mauser K98k 8x57IS - 1938, Obendorf, matching numbers. Fitted with a period-correct scope at some point and possibly in period but post-manufacture.
• Mossberg MB-42a .22LR training rifle. Pretty rare, mine is the only one I have ever seen in the flesh and I'm yet to show it to anyone who has seen one before either.
• Mauser "Deutsche Sportsmodell" .22LR training rifle. 1940 or possibly 1941, one of the last ~1000 made and Eagle-N proofed. Impossibly rare and an incredible twist of fate that I happened to be able to buy it when I did!
• Uberti reproduction Winchester 1873 lever action in .357 Magnum. Half-octagonal barrel. Gorgeous thing, incredibly accurate for what it is, capable of <1" groups standing unsupported with the buckhorn sights at 25m and not much more at 100m!
• Beretta 682 12 gauge O/U
• Armsan 12ga semi auto
• An old, cheap Spanish 12ga sxs for one specific competition I shoot.

That's a cop out...because of 12'' barrel length not being concealable.

I have been carrying around 12'' concealed now for decades. Yes, it can be more difficult in warm weather or a little tight to use in toilet cubicles but still.

It had little to do with concealability, at least in as much as the intention of the law was to ban all handguns. The fact that nothing was subsequently done about these anomalies is at least in part down to concealability.

The fact is that a Section 1 firearm is described not as a Pistol or Rifle but as a lethal barrelled weapon not less than 60cm long and with a barrel not less than 30cm long (plus some other things not relevant to this). The words pistol and rifle are not defined in law and are not used in this part of the act(s). Some smart people realised that the specific definition is exactly that and created what we now called long-barrelled revolvers and pistols as a way to have something vaguely like what they had owned prior to the change in legislation. There was some intermediate chicanery with stocks chained to pistols and so on but the courts eventually decided to maintain the letter of the law instead of the intention of the law probably because of the concealability aspect and the corresponding lack of use of these kinds of firearms in criminal circles.

Regardless of your views on the civilian ownership of firearms, the 1996/7 amendments to the firearms act stand as a crystal-clear example of law-making at its very worst.

 

[Rroff]

Wait, were those AR style weapons above all in semi automatic and .22LR instead of the original 5.56mm etc? Did I misread? I remember seeing 308 etc mentioned (maybe even a Lee Enfield 0.303) but does that only apply to bolt action?

Yeah semi-automatic is only allowed on rim-fire cartridges, usually .22LR, if you want higher calibres such as 308 then you are limited to straight pull/bolt action but it is harder to get on your license these days especially with less and less rifle ranges and the ones that do exist seem to increasingly be operated in a bit of a strange way or don't like accepting new members.

Firearms licensing in this country can be a bit odd though - friend of my dad who used to own farms in several parts of the county and an estate in Scotland seemed to be able to somehow get whatever he wanted on his license, I was in awe of the rifles in .338 when I was a kid and have had a bit of a fascination with .338 Lapua ever since, but now I'm older I think he also probably should never have had a firearms license - i.e. used to keep a loaded .22 rifle behind the sofa for vermin use, even when there were visiting kids in the house, and his muzzle discipline looking back was sloppy.

 

[BUDFORCE]

@DRZ

That's an impressive list. I'll post then.

- CZ 457 (.22lr) - scoped for competitive target shooting.

- Grand Power K22 mk23 (.22lr)

- Tippman M4-22 (.22lr), have a moderator and an *Eotech holo sight with optional 3x magnifyer

- Chiappa M1-22 wood stock (.22lr) - cheap Italian knock off of the old WW2 Springfield M1 carbine, I have a love/hate relationship to this one

- Ruger 77 in .44 mag, currently have a *Trijicon 4x ACOG on.

- KAR98K, 8mm Mauser (or 8x57/7.92x57) - got lucky with this one, it's a 43 BYF stamped receiver, so Mauser Obendorf 1943, numbers match on the receiver, bolt and bolt parts, laminated stock is correct for the year, and the bore is in really good condition, it shoots really well, as well as I can shoot it with open sights. Was so happy with this one and if I could only keep one, it would be this one.

- Accuracy International AT .308. Have a Vortex Strike Eagle scope on it, this thing is mental. I've not had it long and only gone to 300 yards with it but it's just easy mode at that distance. It needs more lol.

* I believe both of these sights are genuine ones, but I got them through some dodgy sellers on eBay/Amazon, so we're a fraction of the price. If they are knock offs, I cant tell.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Do the optics have trademarks/branding on them?

Having owned a bunch of Chinese copies of various optics for airsofting, some are very convincing unless you’ve owned the real thing. The Chinese airsoft manufacturers do usually draw the line at using trademarks/branding without paying for a licence to do so as that’s the point that the folks that make the real kit get lawyers involved.

 

[BUDFORCE]

Do the optics have trademarks/branding on them?

Having owned a bunch of Chinese copies of various optics for airsofting, some are very convincing unless you’ve owned the real thing. The Chinese airsoft manufacturers do usually draw the line at using trademarks/branding without paying for a licence to do so as that’s the point that the folks that make the real kit get lawyers involved.

Yup both do, which I why I think they may be genuine/B grade.

The Eotech I got from eBay, it was faulty and kept switching intermittently off with recoil, but all it was was a dodgy connection (the wire wasn't even attached as such) 5 minutes with a soldering iron and fixed. Now works perfectly.

The Trijicon ACOG, is fully branded with QR code and everything. I actually got this for free, I ordered it from some Amazon seller, and it never turned up, so eventually got a refund. Then months later it actually turned up.

 

[BUDFORCE]

Firearms licensing in this country can be a bit odd though - friend of my dad who used to own farms in several parts of the county and an estate in Scotland seemed to be able to somehow get whatever he wanted on his license,

Yea I honestly think they have some form of scoring system.

I've never had any issues, so far they've just let me have what I want, I got quite high limits on ammunition as well.

But talking to others they have been restricted.

I got no intentions of getting any more guns though for the immediate future, couple of years at least.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Yup both do, which I why I think they may be genuine/B grade.

The Eotech I got from eBay, it was faulty and kept switching intermittently off with recoil, but all it was was a dodgy connection (the wire wasn't even attached as such) 5 minutes with a soldering iron and fixed. Now works perfectly.

The Trijicon ACOG, is fully branded with QR code and everything. I actually got this for free, I ordered it from some Amazon seller, and it never turned up, so eventually got a refund. Then months later it actually turned up.

You got very lucky then as a genuine ACOG is a pretty spendy item.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Yea I honestly think they have some form of scoring system.

I've never had any issues, so far they've just let me have what I want, I got quite high limits on ammunition as well.

But talking to others they have been restricted.

I got no intentions of getting any more guns though for the immediate future, couple of years at least.

It also depends on who you know out in the sticks where the Funny Handshake Club still has a lot of influence.