what headphones do you own thread - i own dt150's :)

That aligns with the measurements of dacs dynamic range on ASR tests etc.

Pretty sure 24bit vs 16 bit isnt really audible to humans anyway and is more just a benefit in mastering recordings and for storing raw files to be converted to lossy formats etc
 
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I felt 16/44.1 was enough and in a portable setup I'm unlikely to use lossless anyway. And I can't A-B the difference at Spotify's Very High/320kbit/s equivalent.

That said it is super cool to have the option, and it will be interesting to compare against the FLAC files I have on the server.
 
Yup I have 60GB of music going back to the early 2000s, stuff i ripped myself and in FLAC so will be looking forward to spotting any differences from those to the ones on Spotify.

Angst said:
That aligns with the measurements of dacs dynamic range on ASR tests etc.
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On that note it's probably where the whole all DACs sound the same stemmed from too, but not much thought was put into the manufacturer's individual tunings that make one DAC using ESS/AKM chips to another using the exact same chips. Well, either tuning or the use of other components in the output stages of the amp, different OpAmps, Class A/AB vs Class D etc etc, it would also explain why DACs/amps from even the same brand don't always sound the same as the brand's typical house sound, which is exactly what we see with Toping and the DX5 II.
 
Gross generalisation and can depend on the other circuitry but I always feel like Cirrus Logic DACs sound a bit smoothed and dull even the high end stuff but especially on consumer level stuff which might have general purpose capacitors in the signal path, ESS are nice detailed but a bit clinical and sterile, while AKM more engaged in the music but a touch warmer than my tastes, Burr-Brown/TI DACs still have what I can only describe as 80s/90s Hi-Fi sound - slightly dark/warm and what I can only describe as slightly recessed but detailed and fairly neutral.

Sometimes I'm hard pressed to tell which DAC is being used, aside from CS - I always notice the dull CS sound right away.

People say you shouldn't be able to distinguish between any high end DAC - but in many implementations the ESS DACs come across much more punchy and bright than the others.
 
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Back when I first got into HiFi in early 2000s, I ripped my CD collection into mp3. I couldn't reallt tell the difference between 320kbps and CD quality, could at 220kbps and below. Although, I hadn't really understood a lot of things about audio science and how that relates to how we hear. Lots of people misunderstanding things, and admittedly I'm one as well, at times. The history of it is interesting as well as the science of it.

I did find an article on ASR which talked about the difference in filters, and why sharp roll of is generally the best, but also why most people can't actually hear the difference between them, particularly as they get older.

I deliberately didn't go for spotify, as they didn't have lossless, that may change now, as they have a better selction than Tidal.

Even though I know I can't really tell the difference, there's nothing wrong in wanting to maintain the bit depth and sample rate that was first chosen when CDs were made, and keeping that as much as possible from source to DAC.

I also got my Crinear Daybreak IEMs today. Worked late, and only got a quick listen, but boy, are they good.
 
Rroff said:
Gross generalisation and can depend on the other circuitry but I always feel like Cirrus Logic DACs sound a bit smoothed and dull even the high end stuff but especially on consumer level stuff which might have general purpose capacitors in the signal path, ESS are nice detailed but a bit clinical and sterile, while AKM more engaged in the music but a touch warmer than my tastes, Burr-Brown/TI DACs still have what I can only describe as 80s/90s Hi-Fi sound - slightly dark/warm and what I can only describe as slightly recessed but detailed and fairly neutral.

Sometimes I'm hard pressed to tell which DAC is being used, aside from CS - I always notice the dull CS sound right away.
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Have you heard any FPGA DACs? Like the Chord Mojo?
 
Rroff said:
Gross generalisation and can depend on the other circuitry but I always feel like Cirrus Logic DACs sound a bit smoothed and dull even the high end stuff but especially on consumer level stuff which might have general purpose capacitors in the signal path, ESS are nice detailed but a bit clinical and sterile, while AKM more engaged in the music but a touch warmer than my tastes, Burr-Brown/TI DACs still have what I can only describe as 80s/90s Hi-Fi sound - slightly dark/warm and what I can only describe as slightly recessed but detailed and fairly neutral.

Sometimes I'm hard pressed to tell which DAC is being used, aside from CS - I always notice the dull CS sound right away.

People say you shouldn't be able to distinguish between any high end DAC - but in many implementations the ESS DACs come across much more punchy and bright than the others.
Click to expand...
This also is ultimately dictated by the headphones and/or speakers you are using, for example we here already figured out after the DX5 II launched and wa sin the hands of people that dynamic driver headphones like HD600 series sound great through it, whereas Hifimans not so great due to the upper mids being brought more forward and thus bringing out the brightness fatigue and mushy presentation when music gets busy.

I also found the same through the speakers, the X9 has the smoothness and warmth I'm familiar with (thank you AKM Velvet), whereas the DX5 II wasn't able to fully utilise the capabilities of the magnesium horn tweeters and just like with headphones, the upper end felt lacking as a result.

Starvald said:
I deliberately didn't go for spotify, as they didn't have lossless, that may change now, as they have a better selction than Tidal.
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Did you at least give Spotify a try at the time? They have always sourced lossless files from studios and artists, and then encoded them to their respective formats for whatever quality you select in the app, so Very High is OGG Vorbis 320Kbps, I'd be impressed if anyone can tell a well mastered track on Spotify vs a locally ripped FLAC of the same mastered release. I guess this is what made the whole process easier, though lengthy, they already had lossless source material as that was how the platform came to be, so they just needed to update the library to include the lossless version too.

Personally I predict many out there, once Lossless is fully rolled out, will complain that it's 44.1KHz and not 88.1/96/192 etc like on Tidal, and that is why they can't "hear" the difference :D
 
If you're paying for music in 2025, it should be lossless. Not because you can hear the difference, but because the real additional cost is so low. If all the other streaming patforms can do it for a similar price, there's no excuse for Spotify.

10+ years ago, when mobile data allowances/phone storage/SD cards/fast internet were much more expensive than today, going lossless usually wasn't worth it.

I remember 256gb SD cards being hundreds of pounds, now they're disposable :cry:
 
Rroff said:
Gross generalisation and can depend on the other circuitry but I always feel like Cirrus Logic DACs sound a bit smoothed and dull even the high end stuff but especially on consumer level stuff which might have general purpose capacitors in the signal path, ESS are nice detailed but a bit clinical and sterile, while AKM more engaged in the music but a touch warmer than my tastes, Burr-Brown/TI DACs still have what I can only describe as 80s/90s Hi-Fi sound - slightly dark/warm and what I can only describe as slightly recessed but detailed and fairly neutral.

Sometimes I'm hard pressed to tell which DAC is being used, aside from CS - I always notice the dull CS sound right away.

People say you shouldn't be able to distinguish between any high end DAC - but in many implementations the ESS DACs come across much more punchy and bright than the others.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you on that. Maybe I'd slightly differ on the Cirrus Logic chips, that might be my limited exposure to them.

With the small amount of gear I've had the Cirrus Logic DACs have been quite neutral (Fiio K11), the Sabre/ESS clinical/sterile (Qudelix 5K, Topping D10 Bal. SMSL C200), AKM have this slightly warm side (Fiio K5 Pro, K7, Fosi Audio K7) and the Burr-Brown are the darkest/warmest (iFi Zen Signature stack). I previously described the iFi as 'analogue' in sound, but that doesn't explain it as well as yourself.

How much if this is influenced by the AMP components, or the use of other components in the board is probably interesting. Certainly the Fiio and Fosi DAC/AMPs have similarities which doesn't surprise me in how they sound, particularly when you look at their price and specs. But that's been said by a number of Youtube reviewers on the Fiio 'house' sound (certainly with their more entry level stuff). However the Fiio K11 was quite anaytical and a bit lean so I don't know again if that's the DAC, the AMP components, or combination there of.
 
I think it relies just as much on implementation as it does the dac chips themselves. My old ESS dac is definitely warmer and less analytical/sterile than my new AKM-based DAC. Although a lot of cheaper options and chifi is just kind of chip in a box with no extra design into what goes around it so they are likely just straight up the signature of the dac chip I guess.
 
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Angst said:
I think it relies just as much on implementation as it does the dac chips themselves. My old ESS dac is definitely much warmer and less analytical than my new AKM-based DAC. Although a lot of cheaper options and chifi is just kind of chip in a box with no extra design into what goes around it so they are likely just straight up the signature of the dac chip I guess.
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I wonder too if DAC chips/tech are getting better and changing. And something that's been mentioned on YouTube reviews with more recent stuff is DAC chips having a certain sound baked into them.
 
Timber said:
I wonder too if DAC chips/tech are getting better and changing. And something that's been mentioned on YouTube reviews with more recent stuff is DAC chips having a certain sound baked into them.
Click to expand...

A bit of both is going on I think. I've seen a lot saying the new AKM dacs sound slightly different to their older ones.
 
That will be the AKM Velvet tuning, also I think AKM's DAC filter has been updated and they now use 6 presets, some manufacturers may opt for a specific one as the default option and you can then change it in the menu.

velvetsound.akm.com

Providing ICs for the Heart of People around the World | INSIDE | STORIES | VELVET SOUND | AKM - Asahi Kasei Microdevices

ASAHI KASEI MICRODEVICES CORPORATION has been working on technological development while listening to the voices of the market and has achieved productization. We would like to let every audio user know AKM's audio ICs and introduce AKM's current and future efforts to develop audio ICs.
velvetsound.akm.com velvetsound.akm.com
 
Probably, although i dont hear what they are saying about the sound signature the "velvet" chip is supposed to have on the k15. It sounds pretty bright and treble-forward to me, though that could be any number of things affecting it besides the dac chip in that unit.
 
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Angst said:
Probably, although i dont hear what they are saying about the sound signature the "velvet" chip is supposed to have on the k15. It sounds pretty bright and treble-forward to me, though that could be any number of things affecting it besides the dac chip in that unit.
Click to expand...

:eek:

That's not great to read.
 
Timber said:
:eek:

That's not great to read.
Click to expand...

The differences are small but its brighter than I expected based on what the AKM DACs were described as and in direct comparison to my old ESS based one. Not really an issue as its got the built-in peq and its probably exacerbated by the hifiman headphones.
 
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I've just started using the Filo FT1's. Very comfortable indeed, even more so than the DT770's were, which is saying something.
The sound quality is very good, again, IMO, possibly better than that of the 770's.

The only thing about the product that I find odd, is why they include short cables. It's adequate, so not a problem, but why a longer cable wasn't included baffles me.

Thanks for the suggestions. :)
 
Yeah, all these audiophile sphere headphones come with a 1.4m cable, whereas I found the more bigger brands, the studio headphones tend to come with longer cables. I guess it's the target audience that people for audiophiles or even gaming headsets sits at their desk with the socket within an arm's reach, whereas the DT770's natural environment would be like a studio where the jack for the console could be further away.
 
These may be interesting:

FIIO Closed-Back Headphones-FT13

Due to its rarity in nature, purple has long been seen as a symbol of mystery, power, and individuality – with deep cultural meaning. This very color, which matures beautifully with time, is our inspiration. It allows us to perfectly express the original intention of our wooden headphone series...
www.fiio.com www.fiio.com
£290

Given how much I like the FT1's will be interesting to see the reviews of these.
 
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