No change doing this!
Gamers, What's Your Audio Set Up?
- Thread starter Random Guy Esq.
- Start date
No change doing this!
@mrk - In short I get the same results.
- Windows 11 (Ryzen 5600X, AM4, Aorus Elite AX) - press print screen, there is a delay in the 'boing' notification sound. Like your video if I play Youtube, or audio through Librewolf then there is no delay. This is with the Fiio K7 plugged into USB and running v1.08 of their driver.
- Fedora 42; Gnome, Pipewire, Kernel 6.16.7 (Minisforum UM480 XT; one of these small NUC PCs) - same test, press print screen and there is no delay in the default iOS-like 'shutter click' audio notification. This is the Fiio K7 via optical from the Topping D10B, or the iFi Zen stack via USB. They behave the same.
I realise now that I probably haven't noticed this as I'm more and more using Windows for gaming, or specific software and it isn't my daily driver. I forgot to try another DAC/AMP on Windows.
- Windows 11 (Ryzen 5600X, AM4, Aorus Elite AX) - press print screen, there is a delay in the 'boing' notification sound. Like your video if I play Youtube, or audio through Librewolf then there is no delay. This is with the Fiio K7 plugged into USB and running v1.08 of their driver.
- Fedora 42; Gnome, Pipewire, Kernel 6.16.7 (Minisforum UM480 XT; one of these small NUC PCs) - same test, press print screen and there is no delay in the default iOS-like 'shutter click' audio notification. This is the Fiio K7 via optical from the Topping D10B, or the iFi Zen stack via USB. They behave the same.
I realise now that I probably haven't noticed this as I'm more and more using Windows for gaming, or specific software and it isn't my daily driver. I forgot to try another DAC/AMP on Windows.
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Excellent this pleases me greatly because now I know someone else will never unhear this quirk that I've been irking with for so long, I actually forgot about it since using the X9 full time so it was an unwelcome memory jolt after hearing it the first time on the K13 again
really though I guess we can confirm that basically it's DAC<>USB implementation related since it doesn't happen with the X9 at all.
It's not USB controller related on the amp itself because:
K11 R2R = SA9312L USB chip
K13 R2R = XMOS XU316 (same as the X9's USB solution)
So it's definitely the DAC stage and how it talks to the USB section I guess.
I think we need a bigger sample set of data from people using other amps priced in different ranges from different brands to see what's maybe going on here and what is common between the ones that show this quirk.
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Excellent this pleases me greatly because now I know someone else will never unhear this quirk that I've been irking with for so long
I think we need a bigger sample set of data from people using other amps priced in different ranges from different brands to see what's maybe going on here and what is common between the ones that show this quirk.
Lol, didn't look at it that way. Maybe another reason to ditch Windows tbh.
If it is hardware it doesn't explain why Linux is behaving impeccably with no delay on the very same DAC/AMP, though?
It is weird, as that then doesn't explain why the X9 doesn't show the same issue. I just switched back over to the X9 and repeated the same test, all perfect.
I will actually email Luxsin and enquire if they did any additional work to implement the USB solution that other makers may not have done to see if maybe they can shed some light on it.
I will actually email Luxsin and enquire if they did any additional work to implement the USB solution that other makers may not have done to see if maybe they can shed some light on it.
@mrk Apologies scratch that. I unplugged the Fiio K7 from USB on the Windows PC and plugged that directly into a USB port on the Fedora PC and it displays the same behaviour as on Windows 11. A delay when it's not been used for a few seconds.
- Fiio K7 optical input - no delay at all
- Fiio K7 USB input - a delay if not used for a bit
- iFi Zen Signature Stack - no delay at all USB input (in fact this lacks optical input)
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Narrowing it down slowly then, so the Zens don't have the issue, which means they are implementing the USB solution properly as well. I've emailed Luxsin to see if they can share some implementation details. See what they come back with. Out of interest what kind of power supply do the Zens use?
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I have iFi Power X (so the £109 ones - the set came with 2). At the moment the Zen Signature Can is using one of the iFi Power X adaptors, however the Signature DAC is running off USB only.
EDIT - Further update. On the Fosi K7 you can set it to UAC 1.0 (mic input only works on this mode) and UAC 2.0. Plugged in via USB to the Fedora PC in UAC 1.0 mode - no delay. Even if I leave the PC untouched for a minute. If however I set it to UAC 2.0 mode - then there is a small delay.
I have it set to UAC 1.0 with the PS5 Pro (because consoles don't allow UAC 2.0) and it doesn't do this delay if left untouched. Obviously with the Fiio K7, or iFi Zen Signature stack I can't swap between UAC 1 & 2.
So now I'm not so sure. Does this indicate something different about UAC 2.0?
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Fair enough, but with the Fosi you have to run it in UAC 1 for the PS5/Switch, or to use the Mic input on PC. In UAC 2 mode it can't use the mic at all. So I did wonder if UAC 1 required less processing power, or something which is why the Fosi K7 has no USB audio delay/wake delay in that UAC 1.0 mode.
That said I've just tested my two dongle DACs and they behaved differently again (Windows 11 to use the Creative App):
- Qudelix 5K - in either UAC 2, or 1 mode there was a 'wake' delay if I left the computer untouched for a minute..
- SoundBlaster X1 - No 'wake' delay at all in either UAC 1 or 2 mode.
Does seem that way yeah, I will see what Luxsin come back with as they will no doubt know since they implemented their custom design in the X9 PCB straying away from the chip manufacturer's recommended designs (confirmed on head-fio a while ago when someone else asked about something). So it's likely they experienced something like this and figured out a way to solve it, maybe.
Did a bit more testing and have solved it with the Fiio K7.
I wasn't on version 1.08 of their USB driver for Windows as I incorrectly said above (that's the K7 BT's firmware). But I was on the older V5.68.0 download. I downloaded the new V5.74.2 driver and there is an option under the 'Options' tab to chance the behavior of the K7. If I set it to always on I don't get that 'wake' delay.
Did a bit more testing and have solved it with the Fiio K7.
I wasn't on version 1.08 of their USB driver for Windows as I incorrectly said above (that's the K7 BT's firmware). But I was on the older V5.68.0 download. I downloaded the new V5.74.2 driver and there is an option under the 'Options' tab to chance the behavior of the K7. If I set it to always on I don't get that 'wake' delay.
Jackpot! You have found the solution, just checked on mine and it was default to on if needed, flicked it to always on and now no more delay!
i wonder how many out there don't realise what is happening and this issue exists for them without even realising lol.
Looks like that tab is not on the Eversolo driver which means it's on by default whereas the FiiO and other DAC drivers default to on if needed.
Nice work!
On older versions of the Fiio driver the option was hidden by default apparently unless you tweaked the settings file manually to reveal it, so possible it just isn't exposed on other drivers.
I've not needed that setting on the QX13 but I swapped it to Always On anyhow.
Ty! I mean I suppose it depends how much the delay bothers you. If the audio doesn't cut out and there are no crackles, or pops I suppose most probably don't care.
That said it does create a another problem for me; this solution is Windows specific and reliant on this Fiio driver. I've looked through Pipewire config files for Linux and haven't got a clue for how you enable it. So I might have to venture into the depths of r/linuxquestions, or something.
They do look like they are using the same driver, just rebranded from the chipset maker, or something.
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It's essentially the ASIO interface which is pretty much universal as far as the control panel goes so yeah makes sense to be rebranded on the fascia.
Interesting question now is what do people do about cheaper DACs that don't have a driver supplied by the maker but do have the delay, since you're only going to be able to change the setting in Windows via the control panel right, and ASIO4All and other ASIO third party drivers won't tap into the specific DAC the same way or provide a control panel specific to that brand.
Interesting question now is what do people do about cheaper DACs that don't have a driver supplied by the maker but do have the delay, since you're only going to be able to change the setting in Windows via the control panel right, and ASIO4All and other ASIO third party drivers won't tap into the specific DAC the same way or provide a control panel specific to that brand.
There are a fair few posts about it online, I've only encountered it myself as mentioned on cheaper generic hardware, my Fiio QX13 isn't exhibiting it with either power setting - though I have extensively set up my OS to not use active power saving outside of when the system is fully and properly idle which may have an impact as so often that affects gaming otherwise.