Poll: DIGITAL ID - It's coming *** NO GENERAL POLITICS TALK - ONE AND ONLY WARNING ***

Are you for or against the new Digital ID

  • For

  • Against

  • Pancake

Results are only viewable after voting.
b0rn2sk8 said:
Do you have anything to pack this point up? (the sharing the digital ID data with the EU, not the refusal to sccess the EU's data which ironically we would have if not for Brexit)
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I am not in the Cabinet, so no, I cannot provide evidence to prove this hypothesis at this point. However, it's known that the British government wants access to the Schengen Information System II and the EURODAC database, but since we won't be rejoining the EU anytime soon then what better way to get access than to offer the EU a quid pro quo?

The UK also lost access to the Europol Information System due to Brexit, (we do still have access to the inferior Interpol I-24/7 database though):

However, the UK's exit from the EU has resulted in the loss of access to several EU mechanisms, such as the Schengen Information System II and the Europol Information System, complicating data management and cross-border investigations. Page 5
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Therefore, it would be true to say that British citizens may end up being fingerprinted/iris scanned and interviewed under threat of a large fine (which were requirements of the NIDC scheme between 2006-10) because the government wants to reverse one consequence of Brexit. If Starmer admitted that it would go down like a lead balloon! LOL

b0rn2sk8 said:
You'll have to explain how this is any more of a secuirty risk than all of the other information we have bilaterial shareing arrangements for e.g. passports, europol, interpol etc.
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Obviously, more points-of-entry and more people having access to a secure system means a greater risk that information will be compromised by corrupt officials/hackers. Also, don't forget that they are likely to add a lot of personal information to the database behind this new NDID scheme, so it's not like the limited information held by the Passport Office database and this information is about all of us, not just suspected/convicted criminals (in the case of EIS and I-24/7).

When 27 EU countries get access to the database behind our national digital ID scheme there must be an increased risk of information being accessed illegally and compromised. You can bet the US government will demand access too; all in the name of reducing crime and preventing terrorism of course.
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
So nothing more than pure speculation then?

Your original post was pitching this as a more of a matter of fact.
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Well, the government is hardly going to admit that this is a major reason why they want a national digital ID scheme. We have to try and read between the lines.
 
Hades said:
Also the Swiss were given a vote on it. In the UK we are being told we are having it, not asked if we would like it. For somethign so contentious we should be asked.
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I was under the impression that BritCard has to voted on by HOC, Labour can't just introduce it.
 
Hades said:
Also the Swiss were given a vote on it. In the UK we are being told we are having it, not asked if we would like it. For somethign so contentious we should be asked.
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Like brexit? People can’t be trusted.

Nor can our current / prospective governments….

I don’t have the answer.
 
Hades said:
Also the Swiss were given a vote on it. In the UK we are being told we are having it, not asked if we would like it. For somethign so contentious we should be asked.
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To be fair the Swiss vote on just about everything.

E: I'm not fundamentally against ID. I'm very much against holding so much information in one handy place for hackers to hit.

I'm also suspicious as to what companies will be involved seeing as this is a thing happening in many countries at the same time.

That's not a coincidence that many different countries suddenly have the same idea so there's obviously something else at play.

It's the lack of transparency, false 'reasons' as to why it's necessary and the apparent non-plus attitude towards data security and risk that concerns me.
 
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UTmaniac said:
I was under the impression that BritCard has to voted on by HOC, Labour can't just introduce it.
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Yes but with a significant Labour majority it might be waved through (hopefully the HoL will delay it). We, the public, should be asked.
 
ploder said:
It's disingenuos of them to cite illegal immigration as a good reason to introduce digital ID. There's no evidence that it would stop that. The problem there is one of enforcement of existing rules. ID keeps coming back as a solution in search of a problem. Last time it was for terrorism. It isn't difficult to prove who you are and there are various voluntary schemes.

My problem is that it is being missold to people. In all likelihood it would be far more than a dumb-ID verification like other countries have. What they want is state-owned biometric profiles on all of us. The last scheme shows that and you can still read the old law that was repealed.

It makes more sense as a profiling and surveillance system 2.0. All our transactions logged against one profile and as the Online Safety Act shows they will make it the only way to log in and use services. Infinitely expandable too, since any ID verification would create metadata in your profile. Having to carry a card or phone is a red-herring because with biometrics you don't need to. Facial recognition can identify you from any AI compatible photos.

At the moment our data exists across a multitude of places and we have multiple ways to prove who we are. The danger is in indexing it, having the state manage our identities, creating a single point of failure, making it available to third parties and reversing the evidential burden in a free society where you can go about your life without state interference unless suspected of crime.
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Strong first post
 
rp2000 said:
Random musing. What's the last big app that the UK govt introduced that stores loads of citizens data that's even slightly comparable to this proposed digital ID?

NHS app, over 34 million users (3/4 of all adults). I think it's been around for about 4 years. Loads of sensitive data. Hasn't been leaked, afaik.


rp2000
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its not potentially accessing things on your phone, and you won;t be required to use your NHS number to use vpns or social media etc where people can post comments anonymously.
also its not mandatory

which is going to happen, if you don;t see that you are blind

people have short memories

Apple can no longer offer Advanced Data Protection in the United Kingdom to new users - Apple Support

Here's what it means.
support.apple.com support.apple.com
www.theguardian.com

UK has backed down on demand to access US Apple user data, spy chief says

Tulsi Gabbbard says Home Office no longer demanding ‘backdoor’ to encrypted material
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

don't worry they are making an app instead


people really turst the gov lol how naive, how gullible
 
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ploder said:
It's disingenuos of them to cite illegal immigration as a good reason to introduce digital ID. There's no evidence that it would stop that. The problem there is one of enforcement of existing rules. ID keeps coming back as a solution in search of a problem. Last time it was for terrorism. It isn't difficult to prove who you are and there are various voluntary schemes.

My problem is that it is being missold to people. In all likelihood it would be far more than a dumb-ID verification like other countries have. What they want is state-owned biometric profiles on all of us. The last scheme shows that and you can still read the old law that was repealed.

It makes more sense as a profiling and surveillance system 2.0. All our transactions logged against one profile and as the Online Safety Act shows they will make it the only way to log in and use services. Infinitely expandable too, since any ID verification would create metadata in your profile. Having to carry a card or phone is a red-herring because with biometrics you don't need to. Facial recognition can identify you from any AI compatible photos.

At the moment our data exists across a multitude of places and we have multiple ways to prove who we are. The danger is in indexing it, having the state manage our identities, creating a single point of failure, making it available to third parties and reversing the evidential burden in a free society where you can go about your life without state interference unless suspected of crime.
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I think the real reason is to please the French and to protect a certain deal, but thats probably straying dangerously close into politcal discussion.
 
Uther said:
Swiss just voted (narrowly) for digital ID:
www.bbc.co.uk

Swiss voters narrowly approve plan to introduce digital IDs

The proposal was backed by 50.4% of voters, in the second Swiss ballot on the issue in four years.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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yea they also have direct democracy we don't.
They have half a dozen Federal Popular votes a year.
they don't have mps voting on their behalf, the people vote directly

This website shows all the past "referendums" as we would call them including voter turn out etc

if a vote passes the government must implement it by law, they aren;t going to find out the scope of digital IDs just changed without them voting on it, that's not what happens here in the UK.

Switzerland having digital ID in no way shape or form is anywhere near the same as our situation, it's like comparing apples and oranges because they are both "fruit" even if they are not the same.

wee have some fake sham democracy where mps ignore everyone and do as the party leader declares, which is basically voting for which dictator you want.


If we want to switch to direct real democracy like Switzerland then I would gladly vote in favour of a digital ID because I know where would be no mission creep or shady stuff potentially going on.
 
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