Poll: AmorIn or AmorOut?

[Shamikebab]

He's made it clear that his formation is more important than winning games, which should be the end of him. Wish they'd just get it over with now.

Don't be silly. There is nothing to suggest that suddenly switching formation would lead to us winning games.

@div0 If he's putting square pegs into round holes then isn't that on Wilcox and Berrada? They're in charge of transfers and employed him to play this formation.

 

[mid_gen]

Don't be silly. There is nothing to suggest that suddenly switching formation would lead to us winning games.

And we will never know because his priority is not winning football matches.

Call me old-fashioned but I think that should be a priority for the manager of a football team.

What will happen instead is he will get sacked and we will get a new manager in, and there's every indication from the precipitous decline in our performances since Amorin took over, that getting rid of him will lead to us winning games.

 

[Robbo]

Logically, putting players in their natural positions will lead to better performances. It's just common sense. They aren't the sharpest bunch, and you can see the cogs turning whenever anything happens. At the moment we've got a weird system that nobody understands, and square pegs in round holes all over the place.

They aren't suddenly going to look comfortable in this formation/these positions. It's funny, last season we just needed to score more goals, and now we've added lots of PL-proven goals with Cunha and Mbeumo... but results have remained just as poor. Now we just need a new midfield. Then we'll just need new wingbacks... and so on.

Where do you draw the line? It's been long enough.

 

[Shamikebab]

And we will never know because his priority is not winning football matches.

Call me old-fashioned but I think that should be a priority for the manager of a football team.

What will happen instead is he will get sacked and we will get a new manager in, and there's every indication from the precipitous decline in our performances since Amorin took over, that getting rid of him will lead to us winning games.

Yes, he's definitely trying to not win games, you cracked it. Funnily your last sentence has been said every single time we were heading towards sacking a manager.

 

[Shamikebab]

Logically, putting players in their natural positions will lead to better performances. It's just common sense. They aren't the sharpest bunch, and you can see the cogs turning whenever anything happens. At the moment we've got a weird system that nobody understands, and square pegs in round holes all over the place.

They aren't suddenly going to look comfortable in this formation/these positions. It's funny, last season we just needed to score more goals, and now we've added lots of PL-proven goals with Cunha and Mbeumo... but results have remained just as poor. Now we just need a new midfield. Then we'll just need new wingbacks... and so on.

Where do you draw the line? It's been long enough.

So what are their natural positions? Why is every other club capable of moving players around to fit a system but not us? The only player that is really playing significantly out of position is Bruno and that has been forced on him by Ineos not signing a midfielder

 

[mid_gen]

Yes, he's definitely trying to not win games, you cracked it. Funnily your last sentence has been said every single time we were heading towards sacking a manager.

Successful managers set their teams up to win games.

Amorin has made us worse since he joined. His win rate is miserable. His unwillingness to set up the team differently is being exploited by other teams who know how to beat us before the match even starts.

Do you think his system is working? Are you seeing progress? Do the players look like they know what they're doing?

 

[Robbo]

So what are their natural positions? Why is every other club capable of moving players around to fit a system but not us? The only player that is really playing significantly out of position is Bruno and that has been forced on him by Ineos not signing a midfielder

That's where a better coach might be able to get the message across more effectively. Amorim obviously can't.

There are question marks over whether the centre backs are comfortable in a three - they certainly don't look it. Every time he subs one of them we look even worse, and he does that in every game.

I wouldn't say Dalot, Mazraoui or Dorgu look capable of being proper wingbacks. They are far too limited offensively. It's a highly specialised position, admittedly.

Bruno as you say is the very obvious one, you can't play him in a two. It's never worked and never will. Mbeumo is a right winger and not typically a #10.

I think a better manager goes defensive until we have new midfielders. Use Casemiro/Ugarte/Mainoo/Mount and drill them to protect a traditional back four, then let Bruno, Cunha and Mbeumo get the ball up the pitch. Long term it's not what we ideally want, but given how difficult the league is now, I don't see another way.

 

[Shamikebab]

Successful managers set their teams up to win games.

Amorin has made us worse since he joined. His win rate is miserable. His unwillingness to set up the team differently is being exploited by other teams who know how to beat us before the match even starts.

Do you think his system is working? Are you seeing progress? Do the players look like they know what they're doing?

no, no, no. Does that mean he's trying not to win games and there is some easy quick fix? No.

 

[mid_gen]

no, no, no. Does that mean he's trying not to win games and there is some easy quick fix? No.

So the system isn't working, there is no progress, and the players don't look like they know what they're doing.

Call me a radical, but I would change something. This league is too competitive to just carry on losing games forever.

 

[Shamikebab]

That's where a better coach might be able to get the message across more effectively. Amorim obviously can't.

There are question marks over whether the centre backs are comfortable in a three - they certainly don't look it. Every time he subs one of them we look even worse, and he does that in every game.

I wouldn't say Dalot, Mazraoui or Dorgu look capable of being proper wingbacks. They are far too limited offensively. It's a highly specialised position, admittedly.

Bruno as you say is the very obvious one, you can't play him in a two. It's never worked and never will. Mbeumo is a right winger and not typically a #10.

I think a better manager goes defensive until we have new midfielders. Use Casemiro/Ugarte/Mainoo/Mount and drill them to protect a traditional back four, then let Bruno, Cunha and Mbeumo get the ball up the pitch. Long term it's not what we ideally want, but given how difficult the league is now, I don't see another way.

So your issue is our transfers have been bad, why are you blaming Amorim and not our DoF? He's not in charge of transfers. Why did they sign Dorgu, Mbeumo, De Ligt and Maz if they can't play the formation they wanted to use? If Dalot and Maz can't play WB, why didn't they buy a right wing back then? You're basically saying we don't have a single player who can play wingback, that feels like a pretty big screw up?

 

[Shamikebab]

So the system isn't working, there is no progress, and the players don't look like they know what they're doing.

Call me a radical, but I would change something. This league is too competitive to just carry on losing games forever.

Sure I would change something too, the cheapest option is always the manager but that doesn't mean it's the fix, just like it wasn't the last 5/6 times we did that.

I also think it's misleading to say he hasn't tried to change anything. He's tried more attacking options at the wingbacks, he's tried more defensive options. He's tried two DM's in the pivot (Ugarte and Case) he's tried Mainoo, he's tried Bruno. He even played Mount and Bruno there late one game. He's tried Cunha up front, Sesko up front, Mount up front as a false 9. He's tried different CB options focussing on both pace and aerial ability for different opponents. He's changed keepers this season too after dropping Onana.

 

[mid_gen]

"I'm going to adjust the formation for this next game to try and get the best out of the players and get some confidence back. My system is the long term goal but it will take time and more transfers to start seeing results, we will work towards it"

Would that be so hard?

 

[Robbo]

So your issue is our transfers have been bad, why are you blaming Amorim and not our DoF? He's not in charge of transfers. Why did they sign Dorgu, Mbeumo, De Ligt and Maz if they can't play the formation they wanted to use? If Dalotr and Maz can't play WB, why didn't they buy a right wing back then? You're basically saying we don't have a single player who can play wingback, that feels like a pretty big screw up?

I've never once just blamed the manager, but ultimately he is choosing to dogmatically play this system despite the fact we're circling the drain. It simply does not suit our players and/or he has failed at coaching them, and they must take precedence to get results on the pitch.

How is that in any way defensible? It's negligent.

If Amorim goes I think Berrada and Wilcox should follow him out the door, they've made a mess of things too, but ultimately a new and better manager will have a more immediate impact. You know as well as I do that Amorim has no future here, so why not try and rescue the season?

 

[Shamikebab]

"I'm going to adjust the formation for this next game to try and get the best out of the players and get some confidence back. My system is the long term goal but it will take time and more transfers to start seeing results, we will work towards it"

Would that be so hard?

So you want him to switch to a formation he's never coached and we've never trained for. How would that be an improvement? There is no formation that doesn't have someone playing out of position with the set of players we have. No manager is switching formation with the goal of then switching back in the future, that makes zero sense.

 

[Shamikebab]

I've never once just blamed the manager, but ultimately he is choosing to dogmatically play this system despite the fact we're circling the drain. It simply does not suit our players and/or he has failed at coaching them, and they must take precedence to get results on the pitch.

How is that in any way defensible? It's negligent.

If Amorim goes I think Berrada and Wilcox should follow him out the door, they've made a mess of things too, but ultimately a new and better manager will have a more immediate impact. You know as well as I do that Amorim has no future here, so why not try and rescue the season?

I can't blame the manager when he's given the wrong tools. If they follow who is appointing the replacement? We taking a poll of the players? The fans?

 

[Robbo]

I can't blame the manager when he's given the wrong tools. If they follow who is appointing the replacement? We taking a poll of the players? The fans?

But you can't take the view that he needs 2 seasons and an entire new squad before we can judge him. That is not realistic and will never happen at any club. He's got to bridge that gap and be adaptable. He isn't.

There's a middle ground isn't there? We accept that the squad needs more work and it'll take time, but Amorim has to show he's a decent manager and can build something. No sign of that anywhere, it's been dire.

That's up to Ratcliffe, he is quite obviously making the big decisions. Not necessarily a good thing...

 

[div0]

@div0 If he's putting square pegs into round holes then isn't that on Wilcox and Berrada? They're in charge of transfers and employed him to play this formation.

Largely yes, I'd say it is. And likely that's the only reason he's lasted this long. The ones who will ultimately decide his fate know there are mitigating factors, but they'll not fall on their own swords before they decide the manager has to change.

 

[Personality+]

The amount of money Man Utd are wasting to try and get back into the top 4 is absurd.

Something tells me, you need a Milan/Inter like acceptance of the current situation and you won't dig yourself out of it miraculously, even with that blank chequebook in frequent use.

That and the managers hired have been poor for the money involved, you could have got the likes of Conte/Flick/Allegri/Inzaghi hell even a Roberto Mancini/Spalletti would be an upgrade at this point.

Someone competent to just get some results on the table again should be a must for your next hire.

Plenty of managers that can do that, or be patient and let the rot continue.

 

[mid_gen]

So you want him to switch to a formation he's never coached and we've never trained for. How would that be an improvement? There is no formation that doesn't have someone playing out of position with the set of players we have. No manager is switching formation with the goal of then switching back in the future, that makes zero sense.

I want him to setup the team to win football matches.

If he can’t learn and adapt to get results then he’s not up to the job and needs to go.

What exactly is YOUR solution? Just keep losing games? Hope that there are three worse teams?

 

[Shamikebab]

I want him to setup the team to win football matches.

If he can’t learn and adapt to get results then he’s not up to the job and needs to go.

What exactly is YOUR solution? Just keep losing games? Hope that there are three worse teams?

I don't have a solution, I have no idea what the problem is and anyone claiming they do is talking nonsense. As I've said, the cheapest option is sack the manager so that will likely be what happens. We can keep trying that and hope we eventually get lucky, it seems to be the only plan right now.

And as I've already said, there is no "push button, set team up to win games" like you're claiming (and I'll note you've made no suggestions what this magic setup to win actually is)