Poll: DIGITAL ID - It's coming *** NO GENERAL POLITICS TALK - ONE AND ONLY WARNING ***

[muon]

What's the difference from the online government account that holds all my tax, work, health, driving information? The "Digital ID" just sounds like turning all that into some kind of unique reference number and linking a passport to all that.

I'm confused what all the against people currently do. They still work on a paper and letter basis?

In Europe people get around just using their ID, without having to carry a passport. Seems more convenient imo.

 

[arknor]

In Europe people get around just using their ID, without having to carry a passport. Seems more convenient imo.

Most European countries require you to carry ID and the gestapo can ask to see it.

UK is one of the very few countries in Europe that doesnt do this.

maybe that's why it makes sense for them to have a national ID.

even google AI overview knows what's coming

search term "list of European countries where carrying id is mandatory"

AI Overview

Several European countries have mandatory ID requirements, though the strictness of "carrying" can vary and may not apply at all times for all citizens. Countries where possessing an ID is mandatory include Germany, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and the Netherlands, among others, and for non-citizens, a valid passport is often required to comply.

• Austria:
  Requires citizens to possess a valid ID or passport, but does not mandate carrying it at all times unless there is a suspicion of a crime or other specific circumstances.
  
  
• Denmark:
  While physical ID cards are available, the country is rolling out a digital ID app for official use, and the requirement to carry a physical ID may vary.
  
  
• Germany:
  Citizens over 16 must have an ID or passport and be able to present it to authorities upon request, though they are not legally required to carry it at all times. However, police can detain individuals until their identity is verified if there is doubt or suspicion of a crime.
  
  
• Italy:
  Mandates that all individuals, including citizens, must have a valid form of ID at all times.
  
  
• Netherlands:
  Requires citizens to have a valid ID card or passport at all times, and non-citizens must carry a valid passport and their residence permit.
  
  
• Portugal:
  Requires citizens to carry a valid ID card at all times.
  
  
• Spain:
  Mandates that citizens carry a valid ID card at all times.
  
  
• Ukraine:
  Citizens are required to carry a valid identification document, and a new digital ID system is being introduced.
  
  
• United Kingdom:
  While the UK has not historically had mandatory ID cards, the government is planning to roll out a digital ID scheme in the future. For now, carrying a physical ID is not mandatory, but it may be required in specific situations.

PAPERS PLEASE!


and we know why India has digital ID

Poorer Indians who have no proof to offer of their existence will leapfrog into a national online system, another global first, where their identities can be validated anytime anywhere in a few seconds.

billions of people who live there probably don;t even have proof of birth,


everyone int he UK will have some form of ID to prove their existence unless they sneaked in via a lorry

 

[Nasher]

It's scary stuff. Tie everything together so if you say something the government doesn't like (or WHEN hackers get control of it), you can be locked out of everything including your own bank accounts. They already want to phase out physical money so we are all trapped inside the system. It's quite obvious this is really about population control now.

It's basically the foundation for a China like "social points" system.

 

[Gray2233]

Most European countries require you to carry ID and the gestapo can ask to see it.

UK is one of the very few countries in Europe that doesnt do this.

maybe that's why it makes sense for them to have a national ID.

even google AI overview knows what's coming

search term "list of European countries where carrying id is mandatory"

PAPERS PLEASE!


and we know why India has digital ID



billions of people who live there probably don;t even have proof of birth,


everyone int he UK will have some form of ID to prove their existence unless they sneaked in via a lorry

Tongue in cheek, but there'll be mandatory mood altering drugs in a decade or two at this rate.

 

[arknor]

in 10 years we probably find out some Indian IT company is behind it all and it was pushed as part of the trade deal.

seen weirder things happen, it'll be a huge money maker for someone, theres no way the gov can set it up internally for 1bn

 

[muon]

You guys literally don't have .gov account? Wow, the delusion runs deep.

I thought the generation of people on this forum are past the, internet/digital is scary trope.

 

[Gray2233]

You guys literally don't have .gov account? Wow, the delusion runs deep.

I thought the generation of people on this forum are past the, internet/digital is scary trope.

Care to actually explain what you mean? You're not making much sense.

The internet is scary, it used to be good sense and advice to not put all of your personal information on here for obvious reasons. Kids get groomed in horrifying numbers (no, Digital ID will not resolve that anymore than the OSF, yes both are connected), you get creepy stalkers, data breaches with major corporations and even governments are extremely common and always will be. Discord recently had one and that's one of the most major social media platforms online, it isn't the first and it certainly wont be the last, but the fact it had a lot of personal information due to ID requirements rather than something semi-easily resolved such as bank details should be concerning to anyone.

All of the above is before the painfully poor direction this can and will eventually be taken, give an inch and eventually you'll lose a mile.

I frankly find it a little naïve to believe this sort of thing is a positive, especially at this point in time, and worse a system designed and implemented by our utterly incompetent government (and I'm not making a specific point about labour, the tories, or whomever, they're all bloody useless).

 

[BUDFORCE]

Tongue in cheek, but there'll be mandatory mood altering drugs in a decade or two at this rate.

Prozium - The great nepenthe. Opiate of our masses. Glue of our great society. Salve and salvation, it has delivered us from pathos, from sorrow, the deepest chasms of melancholy and hate. With it, we anesthetize grief, annihilate jealousy, obliterate rage. Those sister impulses towards joy, love, and elation are anesthetized in stride, we accept as fair sacrifice. For we embrace Prozium in its unifying fullness and all that it has done to make us great.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Care to actually explain what you mean? You're not making much sense.

The internet is scary, it used to be good sense and advice to not put all of your personal information on here for obvious reasons. Kids get groomed in horrifying numbers (no, Digital ID will not resolve that anymore than the OSF, yes both are connected), you get creepy stalkers, data breaches with major corporations and even governments are extremely common and always will be. Discord recently had one and that's one of the most major social media platforms online, it isn't the first and it certainly wont be the last, but the fact it had a lot of personal information due to ID requirements rather than something semi-easily resolved such as bank details should be concerning to anyone.

All of the above is before the painfully poor direction this can and will eventually be taken, give an inch and eventually you'll lose a mile.

I frankly find it a little naïve to believe this sort of thing is a positive, especially at this point in time, and worse a system designed and implemented by our utterly incompetent government (and I'm not making a specific point about labour, the tories, or whomever, they're all bloody useless).

Have you considered that if there was a proper implementation of the digital ID you wouldn't actually need to upload a full copy of your ID to a 3rd party. You'd just use a share code like with your driving licence or eVISA if you are not a UK national already, share code which will expire after a few days.

This is far safter than someone taking a photo of their driving licence or passport and sending it to someone.

 

[Gray2233]

Have you considered that if there was a proper implementation of the digital ID you wouldn't actually need to upload a full copy of your ID to a 3rd party. You'd just use a share code like with your driving licence or eVISA if you are not a UK national already, share code which will expire after a few days.

This is far safter than someone taking a photo of their driving licence or passport and sending it to someone.

How is it going to be safer when it's tied to "everything" as the gov claims? That means everything, right? They ultimately want this to replace the likes of a driving licence, existing gov ID cards or whatever else. That data needs to be verified somewhere, meaning all of your passport/tax/driving licence etc information is on a server somewhere which absolutely can and eventually will be breached. All on a smart device that tracks your every movement, and they want to include 13 year old kids with that.

You're arguing from a standpoint that the OSA is a positive, it needs to be repealed in my opinion.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

How is it going to be safer when it's tied to "everything" as the gov claims? That means everything, right? They ultimately want this to replace the likes of a driving licence, existing gov ID cards or whatever else. That data needs to be verified somewhere, meaning all of your passport/tax/driving licence etc information is on a server somewhere which absolutely can and eventually will be breached. All on a smart device that tracks your every movement, and they want to include 13 year old kids with that.

You're arguing from a standpoint that the OSA is a positive, it needs to be repealed in my opinion.

All of this stuff is already on a server somewhere, the very notion you can log into any government website must mean all your information are stored there already.

Even if you don't have an account, the very ability for you to create an account and look at say your tax stuff within minutes means they must have all your tax information on the server already so you can create an account and access it. The same applies to driving licence, passport etc as well, this changes nothing.

All the digital ID card will be is an access token on your phone to something which already exists on the governments servers. It doesn't mean your passport, dirving licence and tax information will be stored on the same servers because that would be a breach of nummerious pieces of very long standing legislation.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

What's funny @Gray2233?

It's almost like I have used the thing between my ears before smashing out a 'we're all doomed' response unlike most people in this thread.

 

[Gray2233]

All of this stuff is already on a server somewhere, the very notion you can log into any government website must mean all your information are stored there already.

Even if you don't have an account, the very ability for you to create an account and look at say your tax stuff within minutes means they must have all your tax information on the server already so you can create an account and access it. The same applies to driving licence, passport etc as well, this changes nothing.

All the digital ID card will be is an access token on your phone to something which already exists on the governments servers. It doesn't mean your passport, dirving licence and tax information will be stored on the same servers because that would be a breach of nummerious pieces of very long standing legislation.

You can get by just fine without all of your information being accessible online currently, I know numerous people who do not drive and have never travelled abroad who work without using any of the .gov websites, it's a very strange argument.

As for the rest, you're being painfully naïve in my opinion, I feel that you're also conflating the (optional) digital ID programs in other parts of Europe with the proposed UK plan.

You also ignored the fact said ID will be on a potentially mandatory wireless device such as a smart phone, that will track where you are at any given time, including kids if they get their way. Is this a case of you trusting the current government to handle this sort of thing out of interest? Would you be happy if Reform was elected and held the reigns of the system? Or lord knows what party pops into power in five or ten years time while enforcing more and more rules/regulations?

This absolutely suggests that data will be refined into one area for ease of access, and that area absolutely will be a security risk for individuals on multiple levels.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

You can get by just fine without all of your information being accessible online currently, I know numerous people who do not drive and have never travelled abroad who work without using any of the .gov websites, it's a very strange argument.

As for the rest, you're being painfully naïve in my opinion, I feel that you're also conflating the (optional) digital ID programs in other parts of Europe with the proposed UK plan.

That doesn't mean this information isn't already there, that is my whole point.

If you don't have a HMRC account, go and make one and all your tax details are there to see instantly. They either got there in one of two ways, they were created from magic pixie dust when you created your account or they were always on the relevent server ready for you to access them.

I'm going to go with the latter.

You also ignored the fact said ID will be on a potentially mandatory wireless device such as a smart phone, that will track where you are at any given time, including kids if they get their way. Is this a case of you trusting the current government to handle this sort of thing out of interest? Would you be happy if Reform was elected and held the reigns of the system? Or lord knows what party pops into power in five or ten years time while enforcing more and more rules/regulations?

I didn't ignore it, the above summounts to a conspracy theory. Ironically the security services can already get a warrant and track your location via the cellular network already if they really wanted to. The double irony is you don't need digital ID to achieve what you are suggesting, it doesn't even make it easier because they can already do it via the cellular network.

Pretty much every mobile device is configured to only share your location with 3rd party software with your express consent by default. The government can only track your location if your explicialy allow them to. I'm not even convinced they can legally collect this information without a logitimate purpose because GDPR and the HRA would prevent them from doing so.

This absolutely suggests that data will be refined into one area for ease of access, and that area absolutely will be a security risk for individuals on multiple levels.

No it doesnt at all and its not even a requirement or something that makes it materially easier, if anything bringing it all together makes it MUCH harder and far more expensive.

Likewise, the government would have to completely overhaul the UK's data protection legislation if they wanted to do that because it expressly forbids it at the moment. They'd probably also have to ammend the HRA and other legislation.

 

[Gray2233]

That doesn't mean this information isn't already there, that is my whole point.

If you don't have a HMRC account, go and make one and all your tax details are there to see instantly. They either got there in one of two ways, they were created from magic pixie dust when you created your account or they were always on the relevent server ready for you to access them.

I'm going to go with the latter.



I didn't ignore it, the above summounts to a conspracy theory. Ironically the security services can already get a warrant and track your location via the cellular network already if they really wanted to. The double irony is you don't need digital ID to achieve what you are suggesting, it doesn't even make it easier because they can already do it via the cellular network.

Pretty much every mobile device is configured to only share your location with 3rd party software with your express consent by default. The government can only track your location if your explicialy allow them to. I'm not even convinced they can legally collect this information without a logitimate purpose because GDPR and the HRA would prevent them from doing so.


No it doesnt at all and its not even a requirement or something that makes it materially easier, if anything bringing it all together makes it MUCH harder and far more expensive.

Likewise, the government would have to completely overhaul the UK's data protection legislation if they wanted to do that because it expressly forbids it at the moment. They'd probably also have to ammend the HRA and other legislation.

May I ask what your working background is?

I'm really not trying to employ some logical fallacy here or be mean, but you absolutely do not come across as someone with any background in network or data security, let alone anyone that has had to deal with government built online systems.

Also, the "conspiracy theory" is not a theory: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czjvrgd48evo

Or are you saying that the gov can't track devices if you don't want them to, while also saying they can track devices?

 

[muon]

I love the "think of the kids" thrown in as well.

It just sounds like you are scared of technology. You talk as if

I know numerous people who do not drive and have never travelled abroad who work without using any of the .gov websites, it's a very strange argument.

these are the people that everyone aspires to.

What's the word? Luddite.

 

[Gray2233]

these are the people that everyone aspires to.

I don't personally belittle people making their way in life, certainly not when I know nothing about them other than the fact they work and pay tax.

 

[muon]

I don't personally belittle people making their way in life.

So you aren't them? You are just outraged on their behalf?

Do you use a mobile phone? Because that's 24/7 tracking. Every cell tower you've connected to is recorded. Affects children too.

 

[Gray2233]

So you aren't them? You are just outraged on their behalf?

I asked you to explain your position above and you didn't, once you do I'll happily tell you all about myself.

 

[muon]

I asked you to explain your position above and you didn't, once you do I'll happily tell you all about myself.

I mean I'm not gonna spend time explaining what a .gov website is. Try one of the many fabulous AIs. They are very good at explaining better than I could. Then can come back and see why the comment is very relevant.