EV general discussion

Tried out an EV9 the other day. Very impressed, but it’s strong money. Probably justifies its price tag when you look at what the other competitors are priced at. It felt very well put together and dare I say it luxurious.

I can’t get past the ID Buzz though. Lease deals on the GTX are conspicuously well priced compared to the lower trims. Which is annoying given the lesser performance models come with the more exciting paint options rather than just red and/or silver.
 
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Journey said:
The Jaecoo 5 is getting some positive feedback in price to what you get. Apparently they are knocking them out at under £300 per month (amortized) which seems very competitive.
Also didn't realize they now have 80+ dealers in the UK, they must be buying 1 or 2 per week to have those sorts of numbers.
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Probably buddying up with the likes of Suzuki to split costs and make the model viable. Local ones to me are Desira franchises so also pushing Suzuki, Isuzu and Nissan.

Just took a quick look at the Jaecoo 5... What an originally styled vehicle and nothing like a cut price mini version of a Range Rover :p
 
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I've gone for a Renault 5 tecnho, I should be able to charge it at work 100% of the time but just incase I will pick up a 3pin charger. Any particular brand to go for?
 
utajoker said:
I've gone for a Renault 5 tecnho, I should be able to charge it at work 100% of the time but just incase I will pick up a 3pin charger. Any particular brand to go for?
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Nothing that says it will do 13A from a 3-pin plug. They are not compliant and using it will burn your house down.

The likes of screwfix have a masterplug branded unit for a reasonable price and you'll not have any issues with warranty claims.
 
lordrobs said:
Just took a quick look at the Jaecoo 5... What an originally styled vehicle and nothing like a cut price mini version of a Range Rover :p
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Chery and JLR have a joint venture in China. Wonder if they are more reliable and have better dealer service than JLR in the UK yet?
 
tamzzy said:
do they not offer the EV9 via NHS salary sacrifice?
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They do, but it’s still £700 pcm after deductions. £1200 pcm pension hit. It just seems like a lot of money to commit to spending on a car. The ID Buzz GTX is £488 pcm or £520 with fancy 2 tone paint.

If we weren’t really focused on 6/7 seats there are a lot more EV options which are much more reasonable.

Having never had a lease before, I’m not really sure what’s a normal amount to spend on a car per month. £700 pcm is two overseas family holidays a year!
 
@tom_nieto ouch that's a lot to pay for "just" a car!
also unless you've hit your £60k pensions annual allowance you'd definitely be feeling the effects of that later down the line

personally, i wouldn't want to pay more than £300/month in lease or depreciation costs, so i buy all my cars used :cry:
i don't think i could stomach the kind of depreciation EVs suffer from new
 
It's not 700pcm either because you need to knock the gross of your salary of which 1/54 goes to your pension year year. You will feel for every year you are retired and that turns into a lot of cash of the course of a 3 year lease.

Assuming the £1200 is the gross, thats £14,400 off your pensionable salary per year, if its a 3 year lease thats £43,200. 1/54 of that is £800. So for the pleasure of that 3 year lease you will loose £800 in todays money from your pension every year. Say you live 20 years post retirement, that 3 year lease alone will cost you an additional £16,000, on top of the £25k from your net slary you already paid over the 3 year lease. It's not such a good deal when you spell it out like that.

It will be slightly more than that as you'll get a pay rise twice in that period. I mentioned above 'in todays money', the NHS pension is index linked so those numbers all rise in line with inflation.

Given how much of your remuneration package is locked up in your pension, if it were me, I wouldn't be doing anything which erodes it unless you are hitting your annual allowance and facing punitive taxes.

Hyperthetically, if you get into the 'lease trap' you could do 3 of these on the bounce and that £800 turns into £2,400 per year and over 20 years thats another £48,000.
 
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I would personally absolutely avoid NHS salary sacrifice unless you are well over the 40% tax threshold. That means top of Band 8a. I think this is where b0rn2sk8 was going.

b0rn2sk8 has focused on the negatives and barely acknowledges any of the positives. I don’t mean this to sound harsh but £800 per year works out at about £66 per month. Frankly if £66 per month is make or break when you retire, you were never in the “nice” car owner category anyway. b0rn2sk8 is of course correct on the pension impact, but there are positives.

As b0rn2sk8 does mention their is potential for avoiding punitive tax penalties and this is where salary sacrifice can be beneficial.

Example. Every £5000 over the higher 40% tax bracket will be about £2,000 per year additional tax paid. So in the case of someone on £60,000 that’s £4,000 each year that would be going to the tax man now going towards your car instead.

Most people don’t live for 20 years after they retire. The average life expectancy in the UK is 82 and retirement age is 67. So on average your pension loss will likely be around 15 years unless you retire early (most don’t).

Gradual loss of child benefits over £60,000 net pay. 1% for every £200 over this threshold. Not an issue if you don’t have children who qualify of course but it is a consideration.

You get a better car cheaper than you would be paying if you paid for it outside salary sacrifice. Giving you monthly savings and benefits now (when you can enjoy them) and not when you are retired.

You insurance, tax, tyres, maintenance and breakdown cover are all included in the salary sacrifice.

I have had 3 total salary sacrifice leases at an average of about £400 per month. The pension impact has been worked out at about £60 - £70 per month, tax “redirection” about £350 per month.

Yes my monthly take home pay is lower and my pension is impacted but that extra money would have been paying for cars anyway.

So yes, please factor in the potential pension impact and it can look scary. But there are positives to salary sacrifice that can outweigh that pension impact. As usually it is far more nuanced but do your own research on the advantages and disadvantages.
 
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ICDP said:
You get a better car cheaper than you would be paying if you paid for it outside salary sacrifice. Giving you monthly savings and benefits now (when you can enjoy them) and not when you are retired.
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Bit of a sweeping statement really when you could get the 'same' car just 12-18 months older for much less money on the used market.

ICDP said:
Edit: I would personally absolutely avoid NHS salary sacrifice unless you are well over the 40% tax threshold. That means top of Band 8a. I think this is where b0rn2sk8 was going.
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Not sure if that is even that case since you can still contribute more of your over 40% amount to the pension, until you hit the cap.
 
Journey said:
Bit of a sweeping statement really when you could get the 'same' car just 12-18 months older for much less money on the used market.



Not sure if that is even that case since you can still contribute more of your over 40% amount to the pension, until you hit the cap.
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Yes true and why I now own a used Cupra Born that was already 22 months old when I bought it. But this is in context of replying to a person considering salary sacrifice (and that context is important). If they were considering used we would not be having this back and forth at all.

I was referring to a very specific context of someone considering salary sacrifice (really worth mentioning this again). I also did caveat that it was far more nuanced and people need to research before committing to this kind of deal.
 
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I don’t disagree and sure it’s ‘only’ £66/month but it’s still for your entire retirement and only assumes you do it once.

For most people the pension loss wipes out most of the initial tax saving if you are not subject to the punitive tax points. BIK is due to increase 1% per year which may not be baked into that initial monthly.

Setting that aside, the EV9 seems to be a bit speedy compared at the moment, £43k gross seems like a lot for what is essentially the car, 1 set of tyres, 1 ‘service’ and insurance. You can buy a GT-line S for £70k and the Air is £60k.

The 700/month net (£25.2k) plus 66/month for every month you claim your pension until you die, say 15 years (£12k) turns into a potential £37k. That is a lot to rent a Kia for 3 years.

You can buy one on a 73 plate for £47k or on a 74 plate for £50k.

TLDR yes there are benefits but are they really worth it?
 
There's a nice Merc EQB 250+ on NHSFleet for £400 a month or a VW Buzz for the same too if you want a 7 seater!

Whilst there is an understanding needed of then vs now, I'm more in the enjoy now camp, though my own circumstances probably dictate some of that having lost my two best mates in the last 12 months at 45 and 50, my uncle at 66 and my mum at 77. There's only my mum who got to feel the benefit of a pension. However I do also have the benefit of nearly 20 years in the 1995 scheme and being quite senior so on a good salary and a pension pot on it's way to 7 figures.
 
utajoker said:
I've gone for a Renault 5 tecnho, I should be able to charge it at work 100% of the time but just incase I will pick up a 3pin charger. Any particular brand to go for?
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I would love to know how you get on! My first car was a little Red R5 in the 1990s, very tempted to get one!
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
I don’t disagree and sure it’s ‘only’ £66/month but it’s still for your entire retirement and only assumes you do it once.

For most people the pension loss wipes out most of the initial tax saving if you are not subject to the punitive tax points. BIK is due to increase 1% per year which may not be baked into that initial monthly.

Setting that aside, the EV9 seems to be a bit speedy compared at the moment, £43k gross seems like a lot for what is essentially the car, 1 set of tyres, 1 ‘service’ and insurance. You can buy a GT-line S for £70k and the Air is £60k.

The 700/month net (£25.2k) plus 66/month for every month you claim your pension until you die, say 15 years (£12k) turns into a potential £37k. That is a lot to rent a Kia for 3 years.

You can buy one on a 73 plate for £47k or on a 74 plate for £50k.

TLDR yes there are benefits but are they really worth it?
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I totally agree and it should be noted there are cheaper EVs available on salary sacrifice as well. Is it worth it, well I showed scenarios where it could be worth it and have already made it clear it absolutely is NOT worth it if you are not well over the 40% tax bracket.

Ultimately the answer on if it is worth it is going to be down to the individual and their own priorities. But at least be clear that it is not all downsides.
 
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