1st ever PC case found - Pentium 166 MMX win98 build/rebuild - Ram issues

Beankp60

Beankp60

Beankp60

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I had been thinking about an old PC build for a while and then i noticed this old girl pop up on market place.

Screenshot_20251016_081757_Facebook by Bean Beano, on Flickr

Screenshot_20251016_081803_Facebook by Bean Beano, on Flickr

20251015_212731 by Bean Beano, on Flickr

20251015_195910 by Bean Beano, on Flickr

It was the same case as my very first PC build which my Grandad built for me when i was about 11 years old around 98 i guess.
Turned out the guy was happy to post it.

The spec of it was

Soyo SY-5VD mainboard
Intel Pentium 166 MMX processor,
S3 Virge video card
32 meg ram (mix of edo ram and sd ram)
Quantum Fireball 2.6 gig hard drive.
Virge S3 PCI Graphics card.
Creative Soundblaster 16 ISA sound card.
3.5 inch floppy
40 speed CD drive.
Windows 98 second edition freshly installed

It turned up not long after and it would not post at all. I took it all apart gave everything a clean and removed the dirt and dust. After lots of messing about it seemed the pc had a mix of 2 EDO ram sticks and one SD ram stick. With the SD ram stick inserted it would only post odd times. Removing the SD ram the PC would boot up fine showing 16mb of ram. I tried cleaning the SD ram slots with contact cleaner and a tooth brush but nothing seemed to get the SD ram to allow the pc to boot.

I also noticed the CPU was running at 233Mhz not 166mhz which the seller mentioned.

20251016_211503 by Bean Beano, on Flickr

I thought maybe the stick of SD ram was failing so i bought 2 sticks of 64mb pc133 Sd ram to max the board out to 128Mb. With these inserted the pc is back to not booting at all.
20251027_201429 by Bean Beano, on Flickr


I wondered if the over clock was causing some issue with the SD Ram. So i tried to set the dip switches back to 166Mhz but 2 of the tabs broke off. So I ordered some new Dip switches, de soldered the damaged one and replaced with a new one. Set the dip switches and i am now back to stock CPU speed of 166mhz. But i still cant get the board to post with the SD ram inserted. Or if it does post it will not recognise the full amount of memory and it posts saying "memory test failure".

New dips installed, i had to cut down an 8 way set.

20251027_200501 by Bean Beano, on Flickr

Im wondering there is a Bios settings i need to change or if anyone has any other ideas? I am reluctant to order more ram sticks incase i have the same issues.

20251027_200910 by Bean Beano, on Flickr

20251027_200739 by Bean Beano, on Flickr

The plan for this PC was to load some of my old games and also do a few upgrades. I have now fitted a ATI Rage 2 Pro 3d card, a USB rear panel port connected to the header on the Motherboard so i have USB now. I also have another sound card but i havent tried that yet.

h6uqOaw7 by Bean Beano, on Flickr

jbKnGwtA by Bean Beano, on Flickr

Any suggestions on how to resolve my Ram issues would be much apprecaited or any tips at all on this build, i was thinking of a 120GB SSD with some sort of IDE to SATA adapter but ive not looked into that much yet.
 
Yikes its been a long time since I've had a MX class CPU and I'd forgotten how bad getting RAM to work was until I had a quick search online.

RAM density was an issue back then because newer RAM modules had IC's that weren't supported by older motherboard chipsets like your VX's.

There's also a problem where increasing the amount of RAM above a certain limit caused it to run slower so maxing out your mobo might not be the best idea but you will need to look that up.

Fast Page and EDO RAM ran at a different voltage to SDIMM, your mobo might support running both at the same time but most didn't and had a voltage switch near the RAM slots.


These links might help, good look you are going to need it because you might have just picked up one of the worst chipsets for RAM compatibility issues that was ever made:


Socket 7 Builds - Vogons Wiki

vogonswiki.com vogonswiki.com
(Scroll down the page to the section on RAM)

Soyo SY-5VD & SD RAM \ VOGONS

www.vogons.org www.vogons.org

Help with 32MB SDRAM Selection for ECS P5VX-A VER 1.0 \ VOGONS

www.vogons.org www.vogons.org


Basically the RAM modules you purchased are probably too new and you need older modules with lower density IC's and possibly 2 clock modules as well.
 
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Definitely a blast from the past this. A lot of it not good memorys to be fair. Can't help with the RAM issue but one thing I remember that's worth checking you do, is that in that era the edges of the steel where the case was pressed were usually not rolled over to give a nice safe edge. They were usually left as-pressed and razor sharp. If you pick the case up from one of those edges, you'll find it slide through your fingers like a hot knife through butter. You needn't ask why I remember this! :D
 
deviation said:
The seller has changed the jumper settings for the CPU, this was common back then, they ran fine at higher speeds, even with the little fan :)
Enjoy it!
Click to expand...
Yep I just need the ram issue sorted. Its strange as he had a picture showing it booted to windows with 32mb ram using the edo ram and the single sdram stick.
 
Cenedd said:
Definitely a blast from the past this. A lot of it not good memorys to be fair. Can't help with the RAM issue but one thing I remember that's worth checking you do, is that in that era the edges of the steel where the case was pressed were usually not rolled over to give a nice safe edge. They were usually left as-pressed and razor sharp. If you pick the case up from one of those edges, you'll find it slide through your fingers like a hot knife through butter. You needn't ask why I remember this! :D
Click to expand...
Yep that was a lesson I learned many years ago also. This case is the same very sharp edges.
 
NetMan said:
Yikes its been a long time since I've had a MX class CPU and I'd fogotten how bad getting RAM to work was until I had a quick search online.

RAM density was an issue back then because newer RAM modules had IC's that weren't supported by older motherboard chipsets like your VX's.

There's also a problem where increasing the amount of RAM above a certain limit caused it to run slower so maxing out your mobo might not be the best idea but you will need to look that up.

Fast Page and EDO RAM ran at a different voltage to SDIMM, your mobo might support running both at the same time but most didn't and had a voltage switch near the RAM slots.


These links might help, good look you are going to need it because you might have just picked up one of the worst chipsets for RAM compatibility issues that was ever made:


Socket 7 Builds - Vogons Wiki

vogonswiki.com vogonswiki.com
(Scroll down the page to the section on RAM)

Soyo SY-5VD & SD RAM \ VOGONS

www.vogons.org www.vogons.org

Help with 32MB SDRAM Selection for ECS P5VX-A VER 1.0 \ VOGONS

www.vogons.org www.vogons.org


Basically the RAM modules you purchased are probably too new and you need older modules with lower density IC's and possibly 2 clock modules as well.
Click to expand...
I must have spent hours looking through ebay for pairs of ram sticks. I might be better off just getting a sligtly newer motherboard. Otherwise im going to have to keep buying ram to try until I get something that works. I hadn't realised I needed 66mhz ram tbh. So everything of the forum posts ive read mention using bigger ram sticks in the hope that half of the capacity is recognised but it seems like a lucky dip if it works.
 
Nasher said:
When modern games have become so crappy, people are looking backwards 30 years to find new stuff to play :D
Click to expand...
Somewhere I think I've still got a spectrum emulator on floppy disk for when the games get really bad...


Cenedd said:
Definitely a blast from the past this. A lot of it not good memorys to be fair. Can't help with the RAM issue but one thing I remember that's worth checking you do, is that in that era the edges of the steel where the case was pressed were usually not rolled over to give a nice safe edge. They were usually left as-pressed and razor sharp. If you pick the case up from one of those edges, you'll find it slide through your fingers like a hot knife through butter. You needn't ask why I remember this! :D
Click to expand...
Hahaha yes every case should have come with a pack of plasters.


Fluffybob said:
My first PC was an Intel Pentium 166 MMX. pure nostalgia :D
Click to expand...
Beankp60 said:
Mine was a pentium 90 with 3.2gb quantum fireball, quad speed cd drive eventually a family member gave me his old voodoo 3d card.
Click to expand...
Started with a ZX81, then a 48k spectrum, got to play on my uncles computer from time to time which I think was an Atari ST playing frogger and sun dog (which some guy has been trying to remake for PC), then got use of a xt (I think) from a friend of my dads with a CGA(?) screen.

Then I did an awful lot of paper rounds and got a 286 with a green screen and a dot matrix printer before getting a VGA monitor and later being given a dell 386sx and spending a fortune on a 200MB hard drive and having to buy a new BIOS chip to detect it...


Beankp60 said:
I must have spent hours looking through ebay for pairs of ram sticks. I might be better off just getting a sligtly newer motherboard. Otherwise im going to have to keep buying ram to try until I get something that works. I hadn't realised I needed 66mhz ram tbh. So everything of the forum posts ive read mention using bigger ram sticks in the hope that half of the capacity is recognised but it seems like a lucky dip if it works.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure whether it needs to be 66mhz ram or not but the new sticks you got have 8 IC's on each side so I think the RAM density problems kick in so you need sticks with less IC's; do the original ram sticks just have 8 chips on them or 16 like the replacements you got?

I imagine most of this stuff has ended up in computer heaven and its only retro collectors or the occasional garage / loft find so there isn't a lot of the stuff around but looking online there is some edo ram which "might" work in your PC.

How much ram do you need, have you tried running it with just the 2 sticks you have that are working?
 
NetMan said:
Somewhere I think I've still got a spectrum emulator on floppy disk for when the games get really bad...



Hahaha yes every case should have come with a pack of plasters.




Started with a ZX81, then a 48k spectrum, got to play on my uncles computer from time to time which I think was an Atari ST playing frogger and sun dog (which some guy has been trying to remake for PC), then got use of a xt (I think) from a friend of my dads with a CGA(?) screen.

Then I did an awful lot of paper rounds and got a 286 with a green screen and a dot matrix printer before getting a VGA monitor and later being given a dell 386sx and spending a fortune on a 200MB hard drive and having to buy a new BIOS chip to detect it...



I'm not sure whether it needs to be 66mhz ram or not but the new sticks you got have 8 IC's on each side so I think the RAM density problems kick in so you need sticks with less IC's; do the original ram sticks just have 8 chips on them or 16 like the replacements you got?

I imagine most of this stuff has ended up in computer heaven and its only retro collectors or the occasional garage / loft find so there isn't a lot of the stuff around but looking online there is some edo ram which "might" work in your PC.

How much ram do you need, have you tried running it with just the 2 sticks you have that are working?
Click to expand...
the edo ram has chips on both sides, the sd ram i bought has chips on both sides. The sd ram the board came with just has chips on one side.
Ive read everything i can find about this board and ram issues but im still none the wiser and not really sure what to now. Currently it is running fine on just the 16mb of edo ram but i want to get a good bit more than that installed. The manual says it can support up to 128mb but can only cache 64mb. So maybe i should try to just get 64mb running.
Its strange it must have ran on with the mix of edo ram and sd ram for the seller as the picture he sent showed 32mb showing in windows.
 
The problem with old stuff is that it can break, the RAM might have been fine for years but stuffing the PC in a shipping crate sending it to you, then you remove it to clean it, refit it etc all it takes is a dry joint or something.

I helped someone swap a PC over and copy their files over, the old PC worked fine until it was moved to the other room then it wouldn't boot; turned out the HDD was failing the case was one of those SFF desktops that can be stood on their side or used flat and the PC would work fine if it was flat but wouldn't boot if the case was stood on its side...


The second comment on the third link I posted above says RAM density is limited to 16Mbit with your VX chipset Mobo:

Help with 32MB SDRAM Selection for ECS P5VX-A VER 1.0 \ VOGONS

www.vogons.org www.vogons.org

Now I don't remember this back in the day but if it is correct and you extrapulate his formula then:

The RAM you purchased:
64-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 64*8/16=32, NOT usable with Intel VX.

"32-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 32*8/16=16, usable with Intel VX."
32-MByte DIMM with 8 chips: 32*8/8=32, NOT usable with Intel VX (the post I linked says this will be detected as 8MB)

16-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 16*8/16=8, usable with Intel VX
16-MByte DIMM with 8 chips: 16*8/8=16, usable with Intel VX
16-MByte DIMM with 4 chips: 16*8/4=36, NOT usable with Intel VX

8-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 8*8/16=4, usable with Intel VX
8-MByte DIMM with 8 chips: 8*8/8=8, usable with Intel VX
8-MByte DIMM with 4 chips: 8*8/4=16, usable with Intel VX

This is before you even start to consider whether it runs at 66, 100 or 133 and the RAM timings


RAM was very expensive back then Windows 98 recommended RAM was 16 MB, 98SE was 24MB home PC's wouldn't have had anything like the 128MB your board says it can take and I wouldn't go over the 64MB because of the cache issue mentioned.

You might have had an easier time if you had picked a slightly newer platform for you retro build; your board has got 4 slots for FP / EDO and two 72 pin slots it might be easier to get four 16MB EDO sticks working.
 
NetMan said:
The problem with old stuff is that it can break, the RAM might have been fine for years but stuffing the PC in a shipping crate sending it to you, then you remove it to clean it, refit it etc all it takes is a dry joint or something.

I helped someone swap a PC over and copy their files over, the old PC worked fine until it was moved to the other room then it wouldn't boot; turned out the HDD was failing the case was one of those SFF desktops that can be stood on their side or used flat and the PC would work fine if it was flat but wouldn't boot if the case was stood on its side...


The second comment on the third link I posted above says RAM density is limited to 16Mbit with your VX chipset Mobo:

Help with 32MB SDRAM Selection for ECS P5VX-A VER 1.0 \ VOGONS

www.vogons.org www.vogons.org

Now I don't remember this back in the day but if it is correct and you extrapulate his formula then:

The RAM you purchased:
64-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 64*8/16=32, NOT usable with Intel VX.

"32-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 32*8/16=16, usable with Intel VX."
32-MByte DIMM with 8 chips: 32*8/8=32, NOT usable with Intel VX (the post I linked says this will be detected as 8MB)

16-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 16*8/16=8, usable with Intel VX
16-MByte DIMM with 8 chips: 16*8/8=16, usable with Intel VX
16-MByte DIMM with 4 chips: 16*8/4=36, NOT usable with Intel VX

8-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 8*8/16=4, usable with Intel VX
8-MByte DIMM with 8 chips: 8*8/8=8, usable with Intel VX
8-MByte DIMM with 4 chips: 8*8/4=16, usable with Intel VX

This is before you even start to consider whether it runs at 66, 100 or 133 and the RAM timings


RAM was very expensive back then Windows 98 recommended RAM was 16 MB, 98SE was 24MB home PC's wouldn't have had anything like the 128MB your board says it can take and I wouldn't go over the 64MB because of the cache issue mentioned.

You might have had an easier time if you had picked a slightly newer platform for you retro build; your board has got 4 slots for FP / EDO and two 72 pin slots it might be easier to get four 16MB EDO sticks working.
Click to expand...

Thanks for working all that out for me, nice one! The edo ram is maybe the way i will end up going. ive bought these on ebay Compaq/Siemens 16MB 72-pin EDO SIMMs RAM/Memory x2 [32MB Total]

Hopefully i have some luck with them. The current working Edo ram has siemens chips on it so hopefully i get lucky.

Yeah i maybe havent picke dhte best system for this build, but i recognised my original pc case and had to get it. I will see how i get on but i may end up building or buying something slightly newer if i get chance. I have quite a lot of old computers and im looking to get them all setup in a room above my garage im currently finishing off.
 
NetMan said:
64-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 64*8/16=32, NOT usable with Intel VX.

"32-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 32*8/16=16, usable with Intel VX."
32-MByte DIMM with 8 chips: 32*8/8=32, NOT usable with Intel VX (the post I linked says this will be detected as 8MB)

16-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 16*8/16=8, usable with Intel VX
16-MByte DIMM with 8 chips: 16*8/8=16, usable with Intel VX
16-MByte DIMM with 4 chips: 16*8/4=36, NOT usable with Intel VX

8-MByte DIMM with 16 chips: 8*8/16=4, usable with Intel VX
8-MByte DIMM with 8 chips: 8*8/8=8, usable with Intel VX
8-MByte DIMM with 4 chips: 8*8/4=16, usable with Intel VX
Click to expand...

Sounds about right and there was some issue with COAST/soldered cache memory mapping which precluded anything over 32MB 16MB on some boards. Ironically the ones with fake cache soldered on (there were LOTS of those) will work fine as there's no cache to map to. VX boards were made by everyone and their dog and the quality of the low-end stuff was appalling.

Quantum Fireball, bloody hell that takes me back :D
 
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