Young first time buyers forced into nature deserts.

[pastymuncher]

Not born there, I just grew up there. Being local (till 2010) to two of the largest RAF bases within 10 miles of each other it’s not surprising to find a lot of people having it in their history.

That's how I ended up here, my last posting was RAF Lossiemouth and I met this wonderful Scottish woman in 2001 and ended up settling here, well Aberlour anyway. I am actually 720 miles from my birthplace of Penzance in Cornwall. I went home for father's birthday in July and the taxi driver couldn't place where I was from. I told him that I was from Penzance and he said I didn't sound like I did. Apparently I have some sort of Cornish/Scottish bleend going on!! I suppose living here for 26 years could have done that.

 

[div0]

I turned 18 in 2000 and did all my school years in Elgin, but I don’t think anyone called me it till I joined the RAF - it wasn’t a school nickname (although it is such a depressingly long time ago that I could be wrong )

Definitely right sort of age, but was another school. Fairly sure we'd not have to look too hard to find someone we both knew.

 

[Richie]

Definitely right sort of age, but was another school. Fairly sure we'd not have to look too hard to find someone we both knew.

6 fingers on each hand is NOT a rarity in Elgin and a family gathering involves most of the town

 

[Penfold101]

That's how I ended up here, my last posting was RAF Lossiemouth and I met this wonderful Scottish woman in 2001 and ended up settling here, well Aberlour anyway. I am actually 720 miles from my birthplace of Penzance in Cornwall. I went home for father's birthday in July and the taxi driver couldn't place where I was from. I told him that I was from Penzance and he said I didn't sound like I did. Apparently I have some sort of Cornish/Scottish bleend going on!! I suppose living here for 26 years could have done that.

Life is strange like that - I’ve found myself down in Gloucestershire as I met someone here when I was at Brize, and after a few other postings round the country I’m settled here permanently. I’ve just this week started my terminal leave after 25 years but got a new job, also at Brize

Definitely right sort of age, but was another school. Fairly sure we'd not have to look too hard to find someone we both knew.

You’re not wrong - I went back up there with my family a couple of years ago for a holiday and we had someone come round to take some family photos. Who walks round the corner but someone in my year from school who had absolutely no idea who I was. When I mentioned it, she started talking like we’d been best of friends, when in reality I could count the number of words she’d said to me on one hand

6 fingers on each hand is NOT a rarity in Elgin and a family gathering involves most of the town

You are OFF my Christmas list

 

[tamzzy]

6 fingers on each hand is NOT a rarity in Elgin and a family gathering involves most of the town

i always wondered why they said reverse cowgirl was illegal in elgin

 

[jpaul]

sorry Elgin's an AI hallucination , or the Hills have eyes.

e: do they have a spare barracks though, don't tell Starmer

 

[Ali195]

Theres nothing fundamentally wrong with flats. In other countries they are the norm in a huge amount of places. The issue in this country is that there is no thought or provision for actually living in these places. Abroad you will find that everything is designed around the idea that lots of people live in an area. They have green spaces. They prioritise active transport infrastructure. They make sure there are shops and things that people need in the local area. We are a weird mix of Europe and the US. **** quality, **** infrastructure and you borderline need a car to exist.

Self contained community facilities within earshot. Laundry, food shopping, multiple kinds of public transport, parks, cycle lanes etc. And a way down, the same.

This channel has done a lot on the subject of urban, suburban development. But really, there is no money for that, never has been, not really, not in UK. Our system is more based around giving developers huge sums for poor quality projects with little facilities (that actually get built). Schools (infamous PFI) are the same. Very questionable value for money.

These firms have almost insurmountable lobbying power and political donations, influence. Will never change.

 

[Hagar]

Those pictures are telling. Showing an American suburb built on virgin land alongside a european / UK suburb built piecemeal over time.

Infamous PGI was largely Blair and Brown keeping money off the books, twenty years later they come home to roost.

Until councils have works departments and county engineers again developments will undoubtedly be built in the private sector which is not really a bad thing, building is a complex and expensive business.

 

[200sols]

You don’t need new schools etc if no one is having kids.

Well you need everything else, especially with this level of immigration. There is nothing in these newbuild estates, its just box houses and sterile box 'gardens'. The way they are designed actually makes a car vital when we should be going the opposite way.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Which is why I say we should be redeveloping towns and cities to increase density rather than facilitating the further entrenched of views the only place you can possible live is a detached single family dwelling. It’s mad, particularly in larger towns and cities.

If there is one thing you can’t easily create, it’s more land.

Abolishing stamp duty, council tax and business rates and replacing it with a single land value tax is the way forward. Highly unpopular but makes total sense as a progressive policy which encourages kind of development which is sustainable and discourages suburban sprawl.

The issues around services are large down to an aging population rather than immigration. The number of working age people as a proportion of the population is shrinking despite immigration, the population below working is collapsing.

That said, we seem to be approaching peak aging so time will tell how that trend continues.

 

[mahius]

18sqm is 200 sqft, that's basically like a chicken coop for humans
crazy!

Properties in this country are already tiny enough as it is. I rent a 1 bedroom flat, which is enough for a single professional. But there's a family of 4 above me living in the same amount of space and idk how they manage in such a small space with so many people. A decade ago, back in my home town in Surrey, I viewed a flat for £500 a month rent that was basically a small box that doesn't even fit a single bed, connected to a short corridor, then connected to another small box as the kitchen and the bathroom on the side of the corridor. Might sound cheap but still a ripoff for renting what is essentially just a short corridor...

You'd think we could move forward rather than being stuck in the 1970s.

With the way things are right now, the 70s are an upgrade

Back then folks could work even the lower paid jobs and still afford to buy (probably as a couple). Nowadays, even with a well paid job, living costs hinder building up a decent deposit and a decent mortgage is still not enough to reach the price of a house.

I've probably got a vastly different experience to the rest of you folks, who seem to live up North in the more affordable parts as opposed to close to the overpriced capital. Round these Southern parts, a freehold house is basically unaffordable and a flat is the only affordable option. The only folks buying houses round here are either investors/the rich, folks getting large inheritances and the like, folks buying together with multiple salaries or those who are actually buying in the Northern more remote parts (and probably have option to WFH given that most of the jobs are closer to or in the capital). I know a couple of folks who bought reduced 2 bed houses last year (by themselves) and both of them worked at a company where they got a massive redundancy payout that went towards the deposit, without which they couldn't have bought the houses.

I only expect things to get worse tbh. If I could, I'd be escaping this country, even though other places also have their issues too.

 

[jpaul]

70s 'people' had access to council house stock too - publically owned which seemed to provide better quality/maintenance than todays private housing associations
- the crown jewels ?
(judging from ex council stock relations have and association housing others are in)

 

[fez]

The only folks buying houses round here are either investors/the rich, folks getting large inheritances and the like, folks buying together with multiple salaries or those who are actually buying in the Northern more remote parts (and probably have option to WFH given that most of the jobs are closer to or in the capital). I know a couple of folks who bought reduced 2 bed houses last year (by themselves) and both of them worked at a company where they got a massive redundancy payout that went towards the deposit, without which they couldn't have bought the houses.

I only expect things to get worse tbh. If I could, I'd be escaping this country, even though other places also have their issues too.

This is the unfortunate truth. In the South East you broadly have a few groups of people.

- Those on good salaries who are buying homes that someone 30 years ago would have been able to afford on half their relative salaries.
- Those who have had help from family or elsewhere.
- Those who can afford a more expensive house because they have been on the property ladder for long enough that the equity in their house allows them to mortgage themselves up to the eyeballs and get a decent house (thats us). We've been on the ladder for just over 10 years and benefitted to the tune of about £150k. That combined with super low interest rates allowed us to aggressively pay down our mortgage.

Around here, the average sold price is £560,000 in the last year. Thats inc. flats (and obviously larger and more expensive properties to counter-balance).

So the average person has to find (even with a 5% deposit) £25,000 or more likely £50k. Based on broad affordability criteria you are looking at two people earning ~£70k to be able to afford that mortgage. £70k will not remotely be the average salary around here. It might be £40-45 if you are being generous.

So you have to have 2 people on a very good salary to be able to afford a very average 3 bedroom house here. Probably about 100-110sqm. Thats mental.

 

[mahius]

- Those on good salaries who are buying homes that someone 30 years ago would have been able to afford on half their relative salaries.
*snip*
So the average person has to find (even with a 5% deposit) £25,000 or more likely £50k. Based on broad affordability criteria you are looking at two people earning ~£70k to be able to afford that mortgage. £70k will not remotely be the average salary around here. It might be £40-45 if you are being generous.

So you have to have 2 people on a very good salary to be able to afford a very average 3 bedroom house here. Probably about 100-110sqm. Thats mental.

Agreed, and on the point of 'good salary', what is good salary these days? A few years ago I thought my rich London friends were pulling my chain saying a £50k salary wasn't enough (admittedly those guys were on good salaries, but had no savings, cos they were young and dumb and buggered away all their earnings). These days I realise that they were right all along. At best someone on such a salary would be able to get a £200-250k mortgage (given that banks only offer up to 4-5x salary, usually 4x). Add a deposit to that and that's not enough for a house, maybe a flat at best. Even a london train driver earning a whopping £80k salary would only be loaned between £320-400k on a mortgage, so they'd need to save at least 6 figures for a deposit.

And that's assuming someone can save such figures for a deposit. With cost of living and rent being 4 figures, most folks can't even save 4 figures a month. Even saving an unlikely £1k a month, that's 4 years to get to a £50k deposit, not counting the other costs involved in purchasing a property, moving, etc. By which time the properties folks were once looking at, have gone up to being unaffordable again. I know many folks who pay silly amounts on rent, can't save up to buy their own place instead.

These situations are literally memes these days:

Admittedly I'm talking a single person there, I heard a story of an ex-colleague who bought a house with his GF. He put down all the deposit and made the mortgage payments, the lass contributed nothing and he still put her name in the property. Inevitably when the lass went off the wire and cheated on him, he had to go through what was essentially a divorce to keep his house. Given how fragile and temporary relationships are these days and even family connections for those buying with siblings, etc... even trying to buy with others is risky business these days.

I'd joke that it's cheaper to go back to living in caves or off the grid, but these days someone probably owns the cave, etc and would charge you rent for the privilege!

 

[Nabinium]

There is nothing in these newbuild estates, its just box houses and sterile box 'gardens'.

Some of the bedrooms in these new build houses are just too small for a human to actually live in. A typical 3 bed new build house seems to have "decent" sized rooms for 2/3, but then the 3rd bedroom is so small that you can only fit a single bed and not much else.

 

[Uther]

Some of the bedrooms in these new build houses are just too small for a human to actually live in. A typical 3 bed new build house seems to have "decent" sized rooms for 2/3, but then the 3rd bedroom is so small that you can only fit a single bed and not much else.

That's not even new. My mother in law bought a new detached 3 bedroom in 2000 and once there was a single bed in room 3 you couldn't get anything else in there...
I doubt things have got any better since then.

 

[Nabinium]

That's not even new. My mother in law bought a new detached 3 bedroom in 2000 and once there was a single bed in room 3 you couldn't get anything else in there...
I doubt things have got any better since then.

Yeah exactly, we've been shafted for years.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I know we love a ‘they don’t make them like they did in the old days’ rant but this phenomenon is not something unique to new builds….

My parents house is decently old, probably at least as old as them, the 3rd room is tiny. You can fit a single bed in it and that’s it. Back when it was built developers didn’t think twice about the staircase cutting into the box room either. You lose 1/4 of the floor space in a room where you can touch all 4 walls when standing in the middle.

Saying you couldn’t swing a cat in there is an understatement.

 

[Nabinium]

I know we love a ‘they don’t make them like they did in the old days’ rant but this phenomenon is not something unique to new builds….

Who is saying that this phenomenon is unique to new builds? Nobody.

I'm aware that plenty of old houses that have this issue too, like my previous house. I only mentioned new builds because it's clear that standards haven't changed.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Some of the bedrooms in these new build houses are just too small for a human to actually live in. A typical 3 bed new build house seems to have "decent" sized rooms for 2/3, but then the 3rd bedroom is so small that you can only fit a single bed and not much else.

That's not even new. My mother in law bought a new detached 3 bedroom in 2000 and once there was a single bed in room 3 you couldn't get anything else in there...
I doubt things have got any better since then.

I’m pretty sure only new builds are getting called out for small 3rd bedrooms…

It’s almost like typical U.K. 3 bedroom houses have small 3rd bedrooms.