Heat Pumps: anyone have one/thought about it?

MartinInAyrshire said:
In the winter, of course it does, depending on the size of the pump. Maybe you keep your house cold but say 80kWH on a cold cold day plus your house’s regular electricity use plus standing charge.
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It can't pull 80kwh over 24 hours though, it can only pull 38.4kwh. It's a 6kw Mitsubishi Ecodan on a standard 3 bed semi. A 12kwh unit could just about but it'd be at 100% load constantly, you'd bake with a constant 60c flow temp all day.
 
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Iamzod said:
It can't pull 80kwh over 24 hours though, it can only pull 38.4kwh. It's a 6kw Mitsubishi Ecodan on a standard 3 bed semi. A 12kwh unit could just about but it'd be at 100% load constantly, you'd bake with a constant 60c flow temp all day.
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Mine is a 13KW Grant Aerona. When it’s -4 outside it uses 80KWh no problem to keep comfort temps
 
MartinInAyrshire said:
Think £15 per day during the cold winter months and £2 per day during the summer. Unless you have solar or batteries in which case it will be less in the summer and the winter.
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£15 a day times 30 is £450 a month! Even with my gas combi boiler the most I use for fuel for ( gas and electric) is no more than £10 a day so £300 a month.
And it’s rare I’d spend £10 a day on fuel fuel during the winter months - more like £9 on average. Unless we’re all at home during the day and have the heating on.

Electric wise , whether it’s summer or winter the only difference is the tumble dryer we use, but use that in a night cheaper rate when we can. So the electric bill is slightly higher during the winter months but not massively.

A heat pump costing £15 a day ( obviously all electric) is very expensive!
 
I think so many people are confused with the running costs that they just will replace their combi with another combi because they know where they stand !

Most people don’t want batteries or solar panels because it would take years to get that money back and unless you plan on living in your property long term such as 15 years plus, it’s not worth it.

I don’t plan on living in my current home forever , so it’s not with going down the solar panels or battery route .
 
RogerOut said:
£15 a day times 30 is £450 a month! Even with my gas combi boiler the most I use for fuel for ( gas and electric) is no more than £10 a day so £300 a month.
And it’s rare I’d spend £10 a day on fuel fuel during the winter months - more like £9 on average. Unless we’re all at home during the day and have the heating on.

Electric wise , whether it’s summer or winter the only difference is the tumble dryer we use, but use that in a night cheaper rate when we can. So the electric bill is slightly higher during the winter months but not massively.

A heat pump costing £15 a day ( obviously all electric) is very expensive!
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I pay Octopus £120 per month. All through the warmer months I build up credit through using less than that plus solar exports. So when the cold weather comes the credit balance just reduces accordingly. It might say £18 some days on the smart meter when I’ve charged the car but it doesn’t really matter as a good proportion of it is already paid for.

It’s also heating 340sqm of floor space - the only unheated area is the downstairs of the garage.

Next year I’m adding more batteries which can be charged overnight at 7p while will reduce the winter cost further, quite significantly and can also be arbitraged in the summer months.

My yearly cost after that will be close to nothing.
 
MartinInAyrshire said:
I pay Octopus £120 per month. All through the warmer months I build up credit through using less than that plus solar exports. So when the cold weather comes the credit balance just reduces accordingly. It might say £18 some days on the smart meter when I’ve charged the car but it doesn’t really matter as a good proportion of it is already paid for.

It’s also heating 340sqm of floor space - the only unheated area is the downstairs of the garage.

Next year I’m adding more batteries which can be charged overnight at 7p while will reduce the winter cost further, quite significantly and can also be arbitraged in the summer months.

My yearly cost after that will be close to nothing.
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Warmer MONTHS.....Ayrshire.....nup just nup ;)

My boiler is getting on a bit so I am starting to look at alternatives for maybe next year or so, basically should I be just replacing or changing to another type/tech.....sorry not much to go on but I'm at the very early stage of just thinking about it. The existing one is around 25 - 30 years old and sits behind the gas fire in the livingroom.
 
Iamzod said:
It can't pull 80kwh over 24 hours though, it can only pull 38.4kwh. It's a 6kw Mitsubishi Ecodan on a standard 3 bed semi. A 12kwh unit could just about but it'd be at 100% load constantly, you'd bake with a constant 60c flow temp all day.
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due to frost cycles it won’t reach 60c on cold days. 52 if I’m lucky at -4. We see overnight temps of -10 fairly often in winter.
We also have a volumiser/backup heater that kicks in at 3 degrees OAT. That’s 3KW so it’s really a 16KW system when it’s 3 degrees or below.
 
BeeP said:
Warmer MONTHS.....Ayrshire.....nup just nup ;)

My boiler is getting on a bit so I am starting to look at alternatives for maybe next year or so, basically should I be just replacing or changing to another type/tech.....sorry not much to go on but I'm at the very early stage of just thinking about it. The existing one is around 25 - 30 years old and sits behind the gas fire in the livingroom.
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I wouldn’t have anything other than ASHP now and I have had everything in the past. Grant G1 installers did a very good job and I’ve tweaked the parameters using ChatGPT to be as efficient as possible for our use. I uploaded the installer manual.

If I was building another new house tomorrow I’d go ASHP, solar and battery, no question.
 
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RogerOut said:
£15 a day times 30 is £450 a month! Even with my gas combi boiler the most I use for fuel for ( gas and electric) is no more than £10 a day so £300 a month.
And it’s rare I’d spend £10 a day on fuel fuel during the winter months - more like £9 on average. Unless we’re all at home during the day and have the heating on.

Electric wise , whether it’s summer or winter the only difference is the tumble dryer we use, but use that in a night cheaper rate when we can. So the electric bill is slightly higher during the winter months but not massively.

A heat pump costing £15 a day ( obviously all electric) is very expensive!
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You missed a key point, the persons house is 3X larger than a typical U.K. family home.

My 4 bed detached property is 130sqm, that posters have is 340sqm, it’s absolutely massive.

Running costs are proportional to your heat loss, with all being equal bigger house = bigger heat loss as there are more external walls/roof.

Likewise with two identical houses but one has half the effective insulation than the other, it will cost twice as much to heat.

RogerOut said:
I think so many people are confused with the running costs that they just will replace their combi with another combi because they know where they stand !

Most people don’t want batteries or solar panels because it would take years to get that money back and unless you plan on living in your property long term such as 15 years plus, it’s not worth it.

I don’t plan on living in my current home forever , so it’s not with going down the solar panels or battery route .
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Most people’s solar systems pay back in 6-8 years, it also adds value on to your house because bills are cheaper for the purchaser.

My system will pack back in under 7 (none of it is south facing). My energy bills are negative, the energy supplier is paying me currently.

You can install what I have today for about 30% less outlay, prices have dropped like a stone over the last year or so.

MartinInAyrshire said:
I wouldn’t have anything other that ASHP now. Grant G1 installers did a very good job and I’ve tweaked the parameter using ChatGPT to be as efficient as possible for our use. I uploaded the installed manual.

If I was building another new house tomorrow I’d go ASHP, solar and battery, no question.
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Same.

The thing that makes a heat pump expensive is not the running costs or the heat pump itself. It’s the time and expense of adapting your existing heating system to work with a heat pump.

If you are starting from scratch, the costs are not actually that different for a like for like system.

A combi boiler can’t do mains pressure hot water so it isn’t like for like. They are inferior to a system boiler + pressurised tank or a heat pump and pressurised tank.
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
You missed a key point, the persons house is 3X larger than a typical U.K. family home.

My 4 bed detached property is 130sqm, that posters have is 340sqm, it’s absolutely massive.

Running costs are proportional to your heat loss, with all being equal bigger house = bigger heat loss as there are more external walls/roof.

Likewise with two identical houses but one has half the effective insulation than the other, it will cost twice as much to heat.


Most people’s solar systems pay back in 6-8 years, it also adds value on to your house because bills are cheaper for the purchaser.

My system will pack back in under 7 (none of it is south facing). My energy bills are negative, the energy supplier is paying me currently.

You can install what I have today for about 30% less outlay, prices have dropped like a stone over the last year or so.


Same.

The thing that makes a heat pump expensive is not the running costs or the heat pump itself. It’s the time and expense of adapting your existing heating system to work with a heat pump.

If you are starting from scratch, the costs are not actually that different for a like for like system.

A combi boiler can’t do mains pressure hot water so it isn’t like for like. They are inferior to a system boiler + pressurised tank or a heat pump and pressurised tank.
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Yes,
b0rn2sk8 said:
You missed a key point, the persons house is 3X larger than a typical U.K. family home.

My 4 bed detached property is 130sqm, that posters have is 340sqm, it’s absolutely massive.

Running costs are proportional to your heat loss, with all being equal bigger house = bigger heat loss as there are more external walls/roof.

Likewise with two identical houses but one has half the effective insulation than the other, it will cost twice as much to heat.


Most people’s solar systems pay back in 6-8 years, it also adds value on to your house because bills are cheaper for the purchaser.

My system will pack back in under 7 (none of it is south facing). My energy bills are negative, the energy supplier is paying me currently.

You can install what I have today for about 30% less outlay, prices have dropped like a stone over the last year or so.


Same.

The thing that makes a heat pump expensive is not the running costs or the heat pump itself. It’s the time and expense of adapting your existing heating system to work with a heat pump.

If you are starting from scratch, the costs are not actually that different for a like for like system.

A combi boiler can’t do mains pressure hot water so it isn’t like for like. They are inferior to a system boiler + pressurised tank or a heat pump and pressurised tank.
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absolutely and ASHP especially with solar and battery gives you a much better EPC which in turn increases your property value. My house was a CC when built and the renewables and ASHP took it to a BA. It’s only 1 point off an AA. That’s worth at least £10k.

I spent £24k on everything but got £13k of gov grants for it and the rest on a government interest free loan. So overall for me when you combine the EPC and perceived value, I feel like I’m up overall.
 
-Ad- said:
To live in a well insulated house, I'm very jealous :D

Total for Jan 2025 was 6200kWh which is bang on 200kWh daily average.

I have some gnd floor insulation to get to at some point (need to tunnel through X2 dwarf walls), which will help a bit, along with some skirting/floor interface sealing to do.

But my heat loss for a peak winter's day is circa 12.5-13kW, so a tall HP would be the order of the day (like a Vaillant or Veisseman). Cost would probably be 15-20k at a guess (before grant).

Just looked and a 13kW Vitocal 222-A with DHW cylinder, installation kit, trace heating kit and other bits is £11k for parts.........

If my Gloworm boiler dies a new one is £700 + install in the same spot and I already have the thermostat, wiring centre and weather comp kit, so a HP ROI would be awful.
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I wouldn't count my house as well insulated, but it's certainly not poorly insulated, and I still need to top up the loft insulation.

I wouldn't just whack in a basic gas boiler, get one that's correctly sized, can modulate down and do weather compensation, that way you will get a more efficient boiler.
 
My heat pump retrofit was £11k, the cost to me was £3.5k.

Solar was £16k (no grants in England) but despite the cost, it will pay back in 7 years, potentially less if prices keep going up.

My system is large, 23 panels across two roofs, two inverters, 13.5kwh battery and an automatic whole home backup gateway.

Prices have dropped like a stone since, you can probably get the above for less than £12k now, especially if you dropped the gateway which is a nice to have but not at all essential.

I’m expecting £400+ ‘profit’ back from Octopus in March after covering my winter bill from the credit built up since March 24.

The above also covers my car, I don’t have a separate petrol bill.

I do see the flip side of it though, the grant is often going to people who can afford to top up the install costs. They are also more likely to have things like solar and EVs which really reduce running costs.

Those on really low incomes can get the whole cost via Eco4 grant but there is a group in the middle who don’t and can’t afford to invest.
 
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But if I was to have a heat pump installed , even with the government grant I’d still have to pay something ,whether it’s 3k or 4 k.

And to have solar panels and a battery would be an extra cost. So I can’t afford to outlay 10 or 12 k or whatever as I don’t have that kind of money !

Octopus keep contacting me about an online quote image a few weeks ago!
 
RogerOut said:
But if I was to have a heat pump installed , even with the government grant I’d still have to pay something ,whether it’s 3k or 4 k.

And to have solar panels and a battery would be an extra cost. So I can’t afford to outlay 10 or 12 k or whatever as I don’t have that kind of money !

Octopus keep contacting me about an online quote image a few weeks ago!
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For my £24k spent I didn’t have to go into my pocket at all. It was a mix of grants and interest free government loans.

It’s been such a worthwhile investment that if had needed to I would. I’d just have stuck some on a zero % credit card if need be.
 
Iamzod said:
And there is the issue, that aint a normal size house. He was asking about a standard 4 bed.

I don't get how you use £2 in summer though, unless your household is like 8 people & you all have 2 showers a day?
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55p standing charge, then 63p to charge the battery overnight so I’m exporting from when the sun comes up and normally about 80p on average to top up the car overnight also. But I’ll export maybe £4 worth on those days.
 
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SkyTerran said:
No, the price of heat pump installs is inflated by the grant. As hardware a heat pump is not more complicated than a modern gas boiler and shouldn't cost more.

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SUPERHEAT MCS Certified 10kW R32 Inverter Air Source Smart Heat Pump – Max Water Temp 60C SUPERHEAT-MHP10 | Appliances Direct

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Come on man, you can't believe this'll be a good product? Heat pumps are far more complicated than gas boilers. You've got a refrigerant for a start, followed by the compressor to compress that refrigerant. Those are not cheap things - and certainly not things you'd want to be low quality.

R32 refrigerant has a GWP of 657. That's terrible! CO2 is 1, R290 is 3 or 0.02 depending on how you measure it. There are many, far less damaging refrigerants.
 
RogerOut said:
Will a heat pump perhaps reduce condensation on windows? I turn my heating on when I need to, although not when no one is home, it’s turned right down to 14c.

I also get black mould on my window sealant, having to wipe it off.

But also I open my windows to allow fresh air in aswell, but obviously that lets heat out.

So are you supposed to keep windows closed in winter to keep all heat in? with heat pumps I mean
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Your house is too cold. That's the problem. 16C plus is recommended
 
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