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How bad is the intel degradation issue really?

Soldato
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I've got a 13980hx laptop which could potentially be affected but I updated the bios and have been running with a negative offset from day one so I'm hopeful it survives.

I'm tempted to try a 14900k system as I've seen one for sale locally, the CPU is only about 6 months old and the seller has agreed to help with warranty if required should I buy it.

Everywhere I read is full of doom and gloom about the 13th and 14th gen CPUs

It got me thinking. How many people have have FIRST HAND experience of the affected chips? And out of those how many have had failures?
Thanks
Scott
 
Me. I've had my friends 14900kf affected. Had to RMA the chip to intel and update the bios for him. All sorted after though (for now)

Edit: there you go, found the thread. You posted in it too :P
 
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How many people have have FIRST HAND experience of the affected chips?

I had a system with a 13700K; I went Intel because I could re-use my 64 GB DDR4 - that was back when DDR5 was expensive for the first time. I didn't wait for any degradation to show before upgrading to a 9800X3D and put the 64 GB DDR4 in another system.
 
To compare - a few hundred, probably a little passed 1000 now AMD 9000 series, mostly 9800X3Ds, have failed in a specific manner and there is a trickle but a steady one of user reports on Reddit and tech forums - since awareness of the issue emerged the AMD 9000 series failures Reddit mega threads have averaged ~0.4 user reports specific to that issue a day, currently around 1-3 a day. Despite the hysteria around the 13th and 14th gen failures the Reddit mega threads has a dribble of reports like 1 report every 3 months, mostly for the i9s. The next biggest source for the 13th and 14th gen failures is the Asus forum which has a handful of reports mostly the 14900 SKUs and a few 13900s.

One of the first sources to spot the issue due to their software being a popular tool in video game compression/decompression which is exposed to the issue RAD Game Tools is still only saying they are seeing a small number of systems affected with it mostly being the 13900 and 14900.

Where retailers report return rates they average under 3% currently across the range with only the 14900s having a little bit elevated return rates (fluctuating around 7-14%) and some of that is going to be a mixture of people returning their CPU out of an abundance of caution when the news about the issue broke, several retailers reported seeing a spike in returns about that time, and some of the 14900 returns will be people trying to find a golden overclocker especially on the KS.

I'm not seeing any real world evidence backing up these 20-100% failure rates hysteria - my acquaintances with a professional exposure to it are talking about failure rates of more like 3%. Personally I think it is a mixture of disgruntled former Intel staff from the layoffs around that time blowing up a real issue out of proportion to get back at Intel and maybe some misreading of the stats by some sources - one of the game developers who was claiming 1000s of reports of failures later admitted their data lacked the ability to accurately distinguish if it was a small number of systems failing multiple times of a large number of systems failing a small number of times.

I dunno what the long term is going to look like, maybe the degradation will become more of an issue eventually, but the Reddit post-mortem thread for Intel failures is mostly people saying their 13th or 14th gen CPU has lasted 2-3 years without issue and only a small number of people reporting failures.
 
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I have no concern over which is best, but to underplay the degradation issue is just not right. The fact Intel has a replacement program for these chips says all you need to know.
AMD do seem to have a problem right now, and you are right that they are strangely cut more slack by the enthusiast community, but this doesn’t change the fact that 13th/14th gen have (or at least had) severe issues. There’s some great second hand deals on these CPUs, but I would never take the gamble. Used market here shows plenty of faulty 13th gen for sale.
"But they are having issues too" is not a good defense.
 
but to underplay the degradation issue is just not right.

As I mentioned thing is - AMD, and it isn't even proved it is an AMD issue, have an issue and despite being a fairly low number of CPUs affected so far it is well covered by user reports, Intel supposedly have a "massive" issue but there is tumbleweed between user reports - something doesn't stack up and it isn't explained by the difference in sales volume - there are like 10x the number of user reports of the AMD failure in a relatively short space of time compared to 2-3 years of Intel sales.

Look at retailers who publish returns information either on the product pages or have released data to the tech press (such as Mindfactory, Puget, Alza, etc.) and across the range rates are low. On the Amazon listings they are mostly highly rated with fairly low numbers of negative reviews and only a small subset of those are complaining about issues related to degradation and those are mostly the 14900 SKUs. This is not indicative of major issues, at least not so far.

Intel put the replacement program into place due to pressure from the media and consumers after the news broke - and a lot of those chips probably aren't faulty - the vast majority of people I know who've returned their 13th or 14th gen CPUs have either done so out of an abundance of caution either to swap to AMD or under the impression that a newer chip would be a fixed one.

EDIT: Even on these forums reports of failures is low and there are a fair few owners of such chips here, I can only recall like 3 reports off the top of my head with i9 chips - for something which is supposedly such a massive issue it is not having much presence.

Used market here shows plenty of faulty 13th gen for sale.

Have to say outside of the 13900 SKUs that isn't something I've seen so far, there seems to be a few 13900s which have one of or both the earlier issues of via oxidisation or an older voltage bug and/or possibly the vmin shift issue - the vmin shift issue actually affects most 13th and 14th gen CPUs but only a small subset it causes out of range behaviour that will damage the chip.

I can perfectly understand people not being willing to take a gamble on the 13th and 14th gen but there is very little which actually backs up the reports, mostly from Level1Techs, of massive failure rates. That isn't to say the problems aren't real but so far it seems you have to be pretty unlucky to encounter them on most of the models and little bit higher chance on the i9 chips (which personally I would avoid).
 
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Me. I've had my friends 14900kf affected. Had to RMA the chip to intel and update the bios for him. All sorted after though (for now)

Edit: there you go, found the thread. You posted in it too :P
Haha I forgot I asked about it there
 
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I've got a 13980hx laptop which could potentially be affected but I updated the bios and have been running with a negative offset from day one so I'm hopeful it survives.

I'm tempted to try a 14900k system as I've seen one for sale locally, the CPU is only about 6 months old and the seller has agreed to help with warranty if required should I buy it.

Everywhere I read is full of doom and gloom about the 13th and 14th gen CPUs

It got me thinking. How many people have have FIRST HAND experience of the affected chips? And out of those how many have had failures?
Thanks
Scott

Why would the seller be selling such a new system especially with the massive rise in DDR5 prices? The 14000 series was mostly Intel pushing more power through the chips to beat AMD and allowing their motherboard OEMs to play loose with the specifications. It's why lower end models and laptops seemed to be less affected.

If the price is right I would buy it for the parts such as the RAM,storage and GPU,then use it to build a new system. Already some of the current generation Intel CPUs are dropping in price,as are the motherboards. Even the Ryzen 7 7800X3D OEM chips have dropped below £200.
 
I know the guy a little and he's having personal problems it's barely been used since he built it. It comes in a Hyte Y70 touch with I fancy putting my own system in. I will have a play with the 14900k though.
 
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If you have the latest BIOS, ideally avoid Asus boards, and use the Intel Performance profile you'd have to be unlucky to have a problem unless the chip is already degraded. If you are going above ~300a/~280 watt, 1.4v for heavy use or 1.45-1.5v for general use bets are off.
 
I did wonder about tweaking the voltage a little and maybe even disabling some E cores to make it more like a 14700k if I sell it on I'd like to do whatever I can to reduce the chances of it causing problems down the line.
 
So in server use failures seem to start showing at around 4 months. So circa 2700 hours. At 90000 hours around half of the CPUs have become unserviceable.
 
I did wonder about tweaking the voltage a little and maybe even disabling some E cores to make it more like a 14700k if I sell it on I'd like to do whatever I can to reduce the chances of it causing problems down the line.

I wouldn’t take anything Rroff says on this topic seriously.
 
Point of order: in AMD's case it is the motherboards that are suspected, not the CPU.

Has anybody managed to reproduce the fault yet? I know the tech journalists and YouTubers have tried, even using offending motherboards, but I haven’t seen a single result.

I’d bet once you adjust for nonsense and user error the issue becomes background noise.
 
Point of order: in AMD's case it is the motherboards that are suspected, not the CPU.

No one has nailed down the problem yet, but the same symptoms have been seen on other makes just a much lower frequency than ASRock - Asus recently announced they are investigating on their boards.

But the point more is this issue exists with the 9000 series even though it is a relatively small issue so far and is well covered by user reports, whereas despite claims of the Intel degradation being a massive issue there aren't a lot of user reports - in fact 1/10th of the reports compared to the AMD issue despite a longer time period.
 
Unlike yourself I've backed up what I have said with reason and links to evidence, whereas you've been proved wrong several times.

You haven’t backed up or disproved anything, ever… You keep claiming to have evidence and data, but when pressed to provide it you resort to lies. You live in Walter Mitty land.
 
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