This is a minefield
- Thread starter ver01@
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It must be fraud at multiple levels. I am thinking, report to DVSA, police or both?
This is clearly fraud - business seller that is using a private account to sell vehicles that somehow haven't been recorded as damaged and are HPI clear (probably has a buddy in an insurance company - another level of fraud).
This is clearly fraud - business seller that is using a private account to sell vehicles that somehow haven't been recorded as damaged and are HPI clear (probably has a buddy in an insurance company - another level of fraud).
Soldato
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A lot of crashed cars never go through insurance and are bought up cheap and bodged back together so there's no trace of their damage ever being recorded, so yeah minefield.
You see a lot of cars on ebay and the like saying stuff like HPI clean/never reported despite it being completely smashed up.
You see a lot of cars on ebay and the like saying stuff like HPI clean/never reported despite it being completely smashed up.
And I don't even think its fraud or illegal.
HPI clear just means its not on finance and hasn't been assessed and categorised by an insurance company.. there is nothing illegal about saying it's HPI clear IMO, it's all caveat emptor in a private sale..
This is why I use Vehicle checking services that look at salvage auctions/records to help..
Soldato
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Yeah that's a good point, they're not lying saying its HPI clear if its just never been reported as damaged, i don't know where the legality lies with something like that.
If i were to crash my own car into my garden wall and repair it myself then sell it on a few years later i'd have never reported it to any form of insurance etc and it would be a totally 'clean' car
This sort of scenario shouldn't lead to it passing through a salvage auction though, which is what @ver01@ is encountering.
There are ways badly damaged cars can end up somewhere like Copart without being insurance write offs (which is the bit HPI is looking at) - for example, if someone only had TPFT insurance and crashed their own vehicle, they wouldn't get anything from their insurer (so nor would it necessarily end up categorised and flag via HPI) but they may try to recoup some money by selling the damaged car themselves.
Yeah, you may well be jumping the gun with assuming it is fraud. There is nothing illegal about buying up clean title salvaged cars, repairing them and then selling them as clean title cars. There is money to be made doing this and looking at listings isn't going to tell you if those repairs have been done to a good standard or not.
Where it gets murky is if you explicitly ask if it has been involved in any major accidents or has been accident repaired in the past. If they say no, then it is misrepresenting what they are selling and that isn't right.
Best bet is to be the smart buyer who does all the due diligence and let someone else roll the dice on the repaired cars.
Where it gets murky is if you explicitly ask if it has been involved in any major accidents or has been accident repaired in the past. If they say no, then it is misrepresenting what they are selling and that isn't right.
Best bet is to be the smart buyer who does all the due diligence and let someone else roll the dice on the repaired cars.
Soldato
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Not if it wasn’t reported to the leasing company and wasn’t seen during whatever inspection (if any) the auction house carried out. If the vehicle sold for what the leasing company expected, they don’t care.
Misrepresentation is a good point but they are clever enough (ones that run this as a business) not be shown anywhere to be the ones that bought the wreck.
It is a matter of public safety so unless the vehicle is inspected, recorded and deemed roadworthy this is illegal.
I don't disagree with the sentiment but I don't think there's anything actually illegal as long as it can pass an MOT and is otherwise roadworthy after being fixed.
There's nothing stopping someone reporting the incident to their insurer as notification only and then fixing the car themselves therefore avoiding it being given a cat marker (I doubt they are notifying the insurance in a lot of cases but that's neither here or there in the legality of fixing the car up and selling it on).
This is all my understanding anyway. Someone like @JonRGV250 will probably have a better idea.
The MOT will not check if the airbags are still working for example.
I do not have a problem with repaired vehicles, but they have to be inspected properly before the get the all clear and this has to be shown somewhere to protect people that do not have friends in the industry that know how and where to check etc.
I do not have a problem with repaired vehicles, but they have to be inspected properly before the get the all clear and this has to be shown somewhere to protect people that do not have friends in the industry that know how and where to check etc.
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There was an article somewhere, or might of been a YT video about how many cars are not being reported by the insurance companies. HPI checks aren't bulletproof either, when I was buying an M140i awhile back a car, I knew had finance showed up as HPInclear with no finance, when I confronted the company that I did the HPI check via, they ignored my phone calls and emails...
Absolutely correct and no idea why anyone would think it’s illegal.
You wouldn’t believe the amount of unrepaired damage I see to chassis crash bars, slam panels etc etc where people have just fitted a new bumper & headlights so from the outside everything looks ok, and same with the rear, but with the boot floor being damaged.
These cars are almost exclusively presented to me by (I’ll try and be PC here) let’s say people who weren’t born here, who favoured method of repair is self tappers to hold everything together.
Unfortunately as long as the chassis rails/structure is ok, there’s not much I can do to fail them.
As for HPI stuffs just look at people like Matt Armstrong who’s bought cars that were totalled but not put through insurance.
He repairs them and they’ve got a clean record (apart from being viewed by 10 million people on YouTube).
He did iirc a brand new Aston and a nearly new GT3RS.
He repairs them and they’ve got a clean record (apart from being viewed by 10 million people on YouTube).
He did iirc a brand new Aston and a nearly new GT3RS.
Can testers add a note or comment to a pass?
We can add whatever we want, as long as it’s relevant.
What we can’t do is make up stuff for it to fail on.