GTS 320Mb Vs GTS 640Mb Vs 2900XT

[LoadsaMoney]

Of course the GTS out performs the 2900 in Bioshsock, its a Nvidia TWIMTBP game, ATi have to sort their performance out in it now, which they will do, will just take a bit of time.

 

[Shocky-FM]

Yup. I can't find any reviews right now with the games Shocky listed above that have the updated ATi drivers, but the ones I in the 2900XT thread prove that it is a faster card than the GTS in pretty much all benchmarks.

Trust me there faster on a GTS, there are also allot of games that are faster on the 2900XT but the gap tends to be pretty small so overall there quite evenly matched. There have been no good reviews lately as there all flawed so I really don't understand what you guys are basing your opinions on.

Also, remember when people use to buy something for it's overclocking potential, crazy concept now but 8800GTS overclocks allot more then a 2900XT and its cheaper.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Look at HL2, its an ATi game, when released it ran faster on funnily enough ATi cards, now what cards is it faster on, heres a clue, its not ATi.

Theres updated reviews that show the 2900 up to, and over 20 frames faster than the GTS, thats not a small gap, theres ppl out there buying the 8800 Ultra over the GTX with a smaller frame gap than that.

 

[Shocky-FM]

Look at HL2, its an ATi game, when released it ran faster on funnily enough ATi cards, now what cards is it faster on, heres a clue, its not ATi.

HL2 is still faster on ATI cards, however Lost Coast and EP1 are faster on nvidia products for some odd reason.

Theres updated reviews that show the 2900 up to, and over 20 frames faster than the GTS, thats not a small gap, theres ppl out there buying the 8800 Ultra over the GTX with a smaller frame gap than that

Ok, go get them and i'll tell you straight away whats with them.

 

[willhub]

HL2 is still faster on ATI cards, however Lost Coast and EP1 are faster on nvidia products for some odd reason.



Ok, go get them and i'll tell you straight away whats with them.

Lost Coast and Episode 1 use more HDR than HL2, thats probs why?

 

[Shocky-FM]

Lost Coast and Episode 1 use more HDR than HL2, thats probs why?

HL2 didn't use any HDR, but yes that is probably why.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Yeah i meant HL2-Ep1, those are ATi games yet run faster on Nvidia cards now.

Heres a review with some later drivers from release (not the latest ones), but as you can see only Quake 4 and FarCry does the GTS win in, yet in the rest its getting slaughtered by over 20 frames, and its probably more now as theres been more drivers after those that have improved performance even more.

http://www.mvktech.net/content/view/3641/39/1/0/

Now thats a helluva turn around from when it was released, as when it was released it was terrible, this just shows you how important it is to have good driver support, as they are improving all the time.

That big improvement from release has only taken ATi about 3 months (well less than that seen as they are not the latest drivers being used), and they've had about 4x or more sets of drivers now, thats probably more drivers now than Nvidia have done for their 8 series, and they've been out since last November.

 

[Tute]

Ok, go get them and i'll tell you straight away whats with them.

That's all well and good, however I could pick holes in as many reviews favouring the GTS as you could the ones favouring the 2900.

When all's said and done, it's quite clear the 2900XT is the faster card now, it's more a case of if you can put up with the noise some make, and if you have a good solid PSU to support it.

I do wish more review sites would update the reviews a bit though, maybe add some newer games and drivers a month or two later, surely it wouldn't take *that* much time to do?

 

[Cyber-Mav]

It's not a case of defending the 2900xt, more correcting opinions.

Right now there is nothing between the 8800GTS 640MB and the 2900XT.

Facts:
1.) The 2900xt is noisier than the 8800 640
2.) The 2900xt consumes more power.
3.) Performance wise they are neck and neck (8800 better in some tittles, 2900 in others)
4.) The 2900xt performs better at 3dmark06
5.) With AA enabled the 2900xt takes a greater performace hit than the 8800.
6.) AMD are more consistent with their driver releases.

Myths / speculative opinions

1.) The 2900xt is better at DX10 as its architecture is more suited to it.
2.) With the new drivers the 2900xt is (performance wise) between the 8800 640 and the GTX (They are still very much on par as the new forcewares are quite good too.)


I currently have a 2900xt and wish i got an 8800 640 as at idle the fan is just too loud for my liking. Performance wise there is nothing at all in it,

add to that the gts has more memory.

 

[Shocky-FM]

Tute, you keep saying it's faster but your providing no evidence to back it up or to explain how your coming to that conclusion.

 

[Tute]

Tute, you keep saying it's faster but your providing no evidence to back it up or to explain how your coming to that conclusion.

Nor are you actually, also a quick look through the "Official 2900XT" thread would yield a number of reviews backing up what I said, also there's the link Loadsamoney posted above.

Don't worry though, it not faster than your GTX!

 

[Shocky-FM]

Nor are you actually, also a quick look through the "Official 2900XT" thread would yield a number of reviews backing up what I said, also there's the link Loadsamoney posted above.

Don't worry though, it not faster than your GTX!

The review listed above doesnt even say what nvidia driver is used as far as I can see and the games tested are all old, and tells us nothing we don't already know from previous benchmarks.

Lots of reviews and discussion here and this is from a 2900XT user on probably the most biased forum around, maybe second to driverheaven.

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33897434

 

[willhub]

I dont agree the 2900XT is faster, my 8800GTS was on par tbh, and faster in Oblivion.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

I dont agree the 2900XT is faster, my 8800GTS was on par tbh, and faster in Oblivion.

was your GTS a 640mb?

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Doesn't matter that those games are old in that review, all reviews use old games, when did the 8800 Ultra come out, and what games are it benched on in reviews, CoD2, Fear, Oblivion, HL2 Lost Coast, Quake 4, Serious Sam 2 etc... etc..., those games not years old then, have they just been released, well Serious Sam 2 came out in 2005, and what year are we in now, its not 2005 put it that way.

 

[Tute]

I dont agree the 2900XT is faster, my 8800GTS was on par tbh, and faster in Oblivion.

Well I think the reason there's so much debate is that "faster" is purely subjective.

I mean some people think faster means higher max framerates. Some think average, and some think lowest framerates.

Some think it's with AA, or without AA. Some think with HDR, some without.

And it's almost impossible to prove as all reviews say different things. There is no such thing as an unbiased review, IMHO.

And btw, that's me giving up. Clearly Shocky's idea of "faster" is different to mine, so we're just going around in circles.

 

[Shocky-FM]

Doesn't matter that those games are old in that review, all reviews use old games, when did the 8800 Ultra come out, and what games are it benched on in reviews, CoD2, Fear, Oblivion, HL2 Lost Coast, Quake 4, Serious Sam 2 etc... etc..., those games not years old then, have they just been released, well Serious Sam 2 came out in 2005, and what year are we in now, and nearly through.

Right so benchmarks of Far Cry, HL2, and three opengl games all based on the doom 3 engine to you is a good review.. LOL

 

[Cyber-Mav]

Well I think the reason there's so much debate is that "faster" is purely subjective.

I mean some people think faster means higher max framerates. Some think average, and some think lowest framerates.

Some think it's with AA, or without AA. Some think with HDR, some without.

And it's almost impossible to prove as all reviews say different things. There is no such thing as an unbiased review, IMHO.

And btw, that's me giving up. Clearly Shocky's idea of "faster" is different to mine, so we're just going around in circles.

im giving up on this too, it always ends up going round in circles as you say.
one thing though, when it comes to other card comparrisons e.g x1950pro vs 8600gts, etc etc there is always a clear cut winner and those topics don;t go on for long.
but from what iv found the 2900xt card is the most talked about card when it comes to performance since there is a big question mark around it. some people say its good some say its bad.
never before have i seen a gfx card being questioned as much as the 2900 is.

 

[Shocky-FM]

im giving up on this too, it always ends up going round in circles as you say.
one thing though, when it comes to other card comparrisons e.g x1950pro vs 8600gts, etc etc there is always a clear cut winner and those topics don;t go on for long.
but from what iv found the 2900xt card is the most talked about card when it comes to performance since there is a big question mark around it. some people say its good some say its bad.
never before have i seen a gfx card being questioned as much as the 2900 is.

There usually is no clear cut winner in high end, it's normal for games to be faster on different hardware but with both being fairly even overall, 2900XT and 8800GTS are evenly matched cards but 2900XT keeps losing out in the latest games, dirt, supcom, stalker, lost planet, COH, bioshock etc.

The only major exceptions so far i've seen are vegas and COH (DX9)

 

[HangTime]

^I dunno, I actually agree with Cyber-Mav. Normally even in the high end you either have a clear cut winner or the cards are very evenly matched (performing with a few percent of each other except for maybe a couple of engines where one excels).

But with the 2900XT vs 8800GTS-640, it's neither. Benchmarks are all over the place, you've got he 2900XT getting caned in some and coming out a fair way ahead in others. It doesn't help that there is a distinct lack of reliable reviews/benchmarks using the latest drivers.

We badly need a proper review site to sit down with a decent range of games and bench using the latest drivers (beta or otherwise) from both manufacturers, in both XP, VistaDX9 and DX10. At the moment it just seems to be a few dodgy benches here and there using updated drivers, certainly nothing we should be taking as gospel, or occasionly performance on a single new game/demo that has just been released.

To me the 2900XT is a great unknown at the moment and it is all very well people saying "with new drivers it beats the GTS640 in nearly everything" but again I haven't seen a proper comparison yet.