You knew damn well you were out of credit you should have not boarded the train had it said "seek assistance" yes I have been on the Tube and not once did I see a ticket inspector and I used it daily for a week. So seems you got unlucky unless staff have been stepped up. Had it said assistance to me and I knew I didn't have credit common sense would have prevailed and I would not have boarded the train. Take the fine on the chin and take it as one of life's lessons, I very much doubt appealing will come to any good.
Anyone ever got a penalty fare/fine on the DLR or Tube?
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Caporegime
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Sounds like a scam to me....
Not that i know of... I work in London and have been checked maybe 5-6 times in the last 4 years
There are many Londoners on these forums. Alas, we pay our fares.
Well i am getting rather frustrated. Not so much with people telling me i was in the wrong, but silly posts like 'buy a car' etc. seems rather pointless when really i was after information on the appeals system or just after anyone elses experiences of something like this. I'm not a criminal, i'm not in the habit of not paying for things and i didnt enjoy being treated the way i was. But by all means people can continue to tell me i'm wrong, after all it's just an opinion and i'm still going to spend today writing my appeal anyway!
I didnt have a choice. It said 'seek assistance' - in an unstaffed station that to me means get on the train.
I tried online before i travelled. I tried at the station but there was no machine. As far as attempting to top up my Oyster card, i couldnt have done anymore. At the end of the day, if i was fare-dodging i wouldnt have scanned my Oyster card would i..
True. If i knew 'seek assistance' meant 'seek assistance or get a fine' perhaps i would have done. However the 'assistance' found me in the form of a £20 fine.
Wouldnt you? I was always happy to pay the ticket inspector the price of the fare, i dont believe £20 is a fair penalty to pay especially when the ticket inspector agreed i wasnt trying to dodge the fare (so, essentially proving most of you wrong
).I had every right to argue with the ticket inspector. Just to make it clear when i say 'argue' i was explaining the circumstances to him. Dont go getting the impression i'm some sort of moron who would be shouting at him on the platform. I know that gets you nowhere.
I'm appealing against;
[1] Lack of discretion by the ticket inspector (admitting he didnt think i was fare-dodging, yet he still gave me the penalty).
[2] Being forced to pay the fine immediately, with the threat of a court summons. Essentially being lied to by the ticket inspector.
[3] Querying the whole 'seek assistance' system. I had to get on the train to seek assistance, yet when it found me anyway - i got a fine.
If i can come up with more i'll let you know
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Caporegime
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I'm appealing against;
[1] Lack of discretion by the ticket inspector (admitting he didnt think i was fare-dodging, yet he still gave me the penalty).
[2] Being forced to pay the fine immediately, with the threat of a court summons. Essentially being lied to by the ticket inspector.
[3] Querying the whole 'seek assistance' system. I had to get on the train to seek assistance, yet when it found me anyway - i got a fine.
If i can come up with more i'll let you know
1 - Discretion ? since when "lack of discretion" is a valid grounds for not paying your fare? It's their JOB to fine people not pay the fare. It's not like you've paid and lost your ticket but can prove it subsequently with bank statement..etc. Fact is you never paid. And there WOULD BE a machine or window on the tube station, otherwise no one else would be able to get in but oyster card users.
2 - And? If the rules states that you have to, then you have to. How is that unfair?
3 - Back to the point, no money for ticket, don't travel. Accept the consequence like a man since you got caught.
Caporegime
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Honestly, just look at it from their POV.
1 - Checks ticket
2 - No ticket, oyster card empty
3 - Strange reasons given - tourist, no ticket machines.
4 - Admit knowingly do not have credit
I don't see why they would let you off, nevermind fine you another £20 for wasting resources.
1 - Checks ticket
2 - No ticket, oyster card empty
3 - Strange reasons given - tourist, no ticket machines.
4 - Admit knowingly do not have credit
I don't see why they would let you off, nevermind fine you another £20 for wasting resources.
1 - Well tell me what you think discretion means, if it doesnt mean show a bit of leeway (sp?) for tourists, exceptional circumstances etc.? Honestly i'd like to know. If they have grounds for discretion to appeal, what else could it mean? As i said, the ticket inspector agreed that i wasnt fare-dodging. Therefore in my opinion shouldnt be fined.
2 - The 'rules' state that i didnt have to. You misread. I was under no obligation to pay it at that point and he had no right to make bogus claims such as sending me to court when i wanted to pay only some of it. He lied to me, i could have paid nothing and been having this argument with the £20 still in my pocket. That makes me angry and more determined to appeal.
3 - I had money to travel. I tried to top up my card, remember? Both online and if there was a machine at the station. Again, if i was dodging my fare, i wouldnt have scanned it. I had it in my mind when the 'assistance' came round i would be able to top up my card there and then, not get a fine.
To be honest, this is all very useful for writing my appeal
2 - The 'rules' state that i didnt have to. You misread. I was under no obligation to pay it at that point and he had no right to make bogus claims such as sending me to court when i wanted to pay only some of it. He lied to me, i could have paid nothing and been having this argument with the £20 still in my pocket. That makes me angry and more determined to appeal.
3 - I had money to travel. I tried to top up my card, remember? Both online and if there was a machine at the station. Again, if i was dodging my fare, i wouldnt have scanned it. I had it in my mind when the 'assistance' came round i would be able to top up my card there and then, not get a fine.
To be honest, this is all very useful for writing my appeal
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Why would they give discretion to tourist ?? Then everyone would claim to be one ! Thats not test is not fare dodging or not, you travel without paying, that's the line. Simple as.
If the police caught you driving without insurance, but it was a Sunday, and you claim you can't get through to them on the phone, you'd think that's an excuse?
You can justify it how you want, bottomline. You knew about not having credit, you travel without credit and got caught, you can't prove you tried to pay online. You think Winona Ryder would've use "I have millions of dollars, I don't need to steel" in her defence? Of course not. And you using "I can afford to pay for it, but there were no means of payment" is the same. Millions travel each day and managed to pay their ticket without problem, I've been on some really dodgy stations, and trust me, there is ALWAYS a machine, takes both CARD and CHANGE. And I don't live in london either.
Please do use "I am a tourist" in your appeal, they'll prob pin it up on the Staff room pin board with it highlighted
If the police caught you driving without insurance, but it was a Sunday, and you claim you can't get through to them on the phone, you'd think that's an excuse?
You can justify it how you want, bottomline. You knew about not having credit, you travel without credit and got caught, you can't prove you tried to pay online. You think Winona Ryder would've use "I have millions of dollars, I don't need to steel" in her defence? Of course not. And you using "I can afford to pay for it, but there were no means of payment" is the same. Millions travel each day and managed to pay their ticket without problem, I've been on some really dodgy stations, and trust me, there is ALWAYS a machine, takes both CARD and CHANGE. And I don't live in london either.
Please do use "I am a tourist" in your appeal, they'll prob pin it up on the Staff room pin board with it highlighted
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Why would they give discretion to tourist ?? Then everyone would claim to be one ! Thats not test is not fare dodging or not, you travel without paying, that's the line. Simple as.
If the police caught you driving without insurance, but it was a Sunday, and you claim you can't get through to them on the phone, you'd think that's an excuse?
You can justify it how you want, bottomline. You knew about not having credit, you travel without credit and got caught, you can't prove you tried to pay online. You think Winona Ryder would've use "I have millions of dollars, I don't need to steel" in her defence? Of course not. And you using "I can afford to pay for it, but there were no means of payment" is the same. Millions travel each day and managed to pay their ticket without problem, I've been on some really dodgy stations, and trust me, there is ALWAYS a machine, takes both CARD and CHANGE. And I don't live in london either.
Please do use "I am a tourist" in your appeal, they'll prob pin it up on the Staff room pin board with it highlighted
Nice to know you are dodging over the bit that doesn't suit your argument. Yes he was a bit of a plonker going onto the tube without a fully topped up oyster card, but there are lots of places on the mainline train service that have stations like that, ticket machine that is broken/not there and no staff. What to people do? They go onto the train and pay the Inspector the price of the ticket. Also the ticket inspector lied to him, that in my books is something you have an obligation to report, and that bloke should be diciplined.
For what it's worth, mate, even if you could have spoken the lingo to them, it makes no difference whatsoever. When they collar you, you have to cough up or face spending the rest of the day at the local gendarmerie and find yourself still having to pay the fine. There's no way around it, so you did the right thing.
To the OP, please do write your letter of appeal... and make sure you keep us all informed of their response. I'm looking forward to knowing what the outcome will be
Exactly. It's not a flawless system, and with something like that there should be an amount of discretion given particular circumstances. Such as my case.
Anyway, i'm currently filling out the form for a refund considering i was delayed by 30mins the next morning, but i dont know which is my Oyster card number (on the back of the card)? Is it the one on the top-right or the bottom-right?
Cheers.But that's not what he said in the OP.
To quote the first posting in this thread, "I was going to have a day travelling around a fair bit, so i didnt really want to buy a paper ticket as it would cost me more in the long run, plus there was no ticket machine that i could see (admittedly i didnt try too hard). So i scanned my Oyster card going into Pontoon Dock station and as expected it beeped at me and said 'seek assistance'. "
To me, this sounds like he didn't bother looking for a machine and boarded the train knowing full well that his Oyster card's credit had expired and would not cover the fare for the journey he was about to make. If he had looked for a machine and found it to be broken, then we'd be agreeing with the unfairness of the fine, but it simply ain't the case. He didn't look for a machine and chose to risk travelling without having paid the fare. Unluckily for him, he got caught out, but that's the risk he took.
He says himself that he didn't want to pay for a paper ticket as it would have cost more in the long run... in fact it would have saved him quite a bit of money compared to the fine he incurred. That's the whole point of having a fine... otherwise what's the incentive to pay for a ticket, if you're not going to be penalised more than the price of the standard ticket anyway?
@Scam
You were incredibly unlucky the day you travelled. In the 3yrs i've lived down here i've seen 2 inspectors on the tube and 1 inspector on the train (i use an overground train and 2 tubes to get to work). There's an increasing number of inspectors at station exits backed up by the transport police.
I think the discretion you talk about got used up last year when i got on a train without my oyster, realised mid-way to the first stop, got off, got the next train back home and got inspected (ooo err). Explained what i'd done and I how i was going to be really late for work blah blah blah, the chap "let me off" and was very amiable about the whole thing.
Put it down to experience, tell your friends down the pub it'll be a good conversation started (or stopper) but don't waste any more time or effort trying to contest the fine. Spend your time setting up the auto top-up feature on the card or load it with a big wodge of cash (don't forget to register is in case it gets lost) so you don't get caught out again.
You were incredibly unlucky the day you travelled. In the 3yrs i've lived down here i've seen 2 inspectors on the tube and 1 inspector on the train (i use an overground train and 2 tubes to get to work). There's an increasing number of inspectors at station exits backed up by the transport police.
I think the discretion you talk about got used up last year when i got on a train without my oyster, realised mid-way to the first stop, got off, got the next train back home and got inspected (ooo err). Explained what i'd done and I how i was going to be really late for work blah blah blah, the chap "let me off" and was very amiable about the whole thing.
Put it down to experience, tell your friends down the pub it'll be a good conversation started (or stopper
) but don't waste any more time or effort trying to contest the fine. Spend your time setting up the auto top-up feature on the card or load it with a big wodge of cash (don't forget to register is in case it gets lost) so you don't get caught out again.
I wasnt. I had shorts and a tshirt on, my camera bag and holdall. Same with my girlfriend. We couldnt have looked more like tourists if we tried
Does anyone know the Oyster card number? I want to hit submit on this delay form but i'm not sure if i've got the right one!
You're finally learning? Blimey you might actually beat TurnoidYeah Scam, i'll be driving soon so i'll stop off down the pub for a weekend and you can tell me all about it