Will music from a CD player sound exactly the same as from my DVD player?

[NeilF]

Well what your asking has to many variables, depends on the DVD player used, the CDP used, how revealing the rest of the system is...etc etc.
As has been explained not all "player" perform or sound the same.
Would it be worth it.... you tell us, it's your ears that have to be satisfied with the difference, not a group of people off a forum !!!!...

That's the thing with audio, it's very rarely a black and white decision, as peoples personal preference and taste come into the equation. So you really have to get away from the keyboard and go listen and make your own judgement as to what you feel you need in your set up.

For what it's worth, as I said before, if your thinking/using £100 players when connected via a SPDIF to an AV amp you will have the same performance. As at this level the players will be using similar low grade parts.

If you used the Analogue outputs then the CDP should be noticeable better, but then we don't know what players we are to consider. Plus your opening question was referring to using the player as a transport, and the digital outs.

TBH, a this price point don't worry about it, just plug in and use/enjoy what you have...... If you want better CD sound, get a better CD player, and use the analogue outputs, into a stereo amp.

So, how long is a piece of string !?!?!

So a hundred pound dedicated CD player you recon (connect via analog) will sound little if no better than a £40 DVD player connected via digital?

Interesting... What are you paying the £60-80 extra for then?

I've just remembered I have an old multi-CD (five platter) CD player up in the loft from about 15+yrs ago...

Out of interest I'll plug it in (it'll be analog only) and see what that sounds like

 

[sid]

So a hundred pound dedicated CD player you recon (connect via analog) will sound little if no better than a £40 DVD player connected via digital?

Interesting... What are you paying the £60-80 extra for then?

I've just remembered I have an old multi-CD (five platter) CD player up in the loft from about 15+yrs ago...

Out of interest I'll plug it in (it'll be analog only) and see what that sounds like

Not exactly mate,

It will depend on what AV/stereo amp is decoding the digital from the DVD player and how good the specific CD player is. but if you are on a budget then i'd not bother personally as the difference is even lower at athe low-end of scale.

sid

 

[NeilF]

Not exactly mate,

It will depend on what AV/stereo amp is decoding the digital from the DVD player and how good the specific CD player is. but if you are on a budget then i'd not bother personally as the difference is even lower at athe low-end of scale.

sid

Well the system in question is a Yamaha RX-V461 with some Mordaunt Short Premiere speakers on it...

If there was a CD player out there with a graphics equalizer system built in that would be interesting!

 

[9designs2]

So a hundred pound dedicated CD player you recon (connect via analog) will sound little if no better than a £40 DVD player connected via digital?

Interesting... What are you paying the £60-80 extra for then?

I don't think I suggested that !!! I said Digital vs digital would be the same, or analogue vs analogue, the CDP would be better than the DVD player......

If there was a CD player out there with a graphics equalizer system built in that would be interesting!

No it wouldn't ...... you are just taking the P now.... Think you need to go have a few demo's and learn a bit more !!!

Like I said it's all a bit academic at this end of the performance scale...

 

[NeilF]

I don't think I suggested that !!! I said Digital vs digital would be the same, or analogue vs analogue, the CDP would be better than the DVD player......



No it wouldn't ...... you are just taking the P now.... Think you need to go have a few demo's and learn a bit more !!!

Like I said it's all a bit academic at this end of the performance scale...

Eeek! Sounded like a good idea to me

If the CD player is converting the digital signal to analog, what's the problem with it equalizing it as well at the same time before reaching the amp?

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Eeek! Sounded like a good idea to me

If the CD player is converting the digital signal to analog, what's the problem with it equalizing it as well at the same time before reaching the amp?

Every additional circuit you add between the CD itself and yours speakers has the potential to influence the signal along the way. The cheaper the kit in question, the more "influenced" the signal will be. So adding an equaliser is simply going to result in an even more screwed up signal. Having said that, if that's what you want, give it a go, just don't hold your breath.

Ref your original question. If you're considering using either a budget CD or DVD player via digital into the AV amp you mention, I'd be pretty surprised if you'd notice any significant difference in quality.

If you want to improve things, get yourself a dedicated stereo amp and CD player, preferably in that order.

 

[NeilF]

Every additional circuit you add between the CD itself and yours speakers has the potential to influence the signal along the way. The cheaper the kit in question, the more "influenced" the signal will be. So adding an equaliser is simply going to result in an even more screwed up signal. Having said that, if that's what you want, give it a go, just don't hold your breath.

Ref your original question. If you're considering using either a budget CD or DVD player via digital into the AV amp you mention, I'd be pretty surprised if you'd notice any significant difference in quality.

If you want to improve things, get yourself a dedicated stereo amp and CD player, preferably in that order.

I see what your saying, but see no difference in:-
a) The CD pushing its digital data to the AMP to decode and it adding tone/bass if required.
b) The CD decoding the music and adding tone/bass (equalizer) before pushing (analog) to the AMP.

I'll try and dig out my old Sony CD player from the loft and plug it in (analog) and compare some music to my DVD player (digital).


The kind of CD player I'm looking at is for example the Marantz CD5400.

Ideally with such a CD player you'd connect it via analog rather than digital yes? ie: You'd trust the onboard DAC on the CD player more than that on the amp?

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

I see what your saying, but see no difference in:-
a) The CD pushing its digital data to the AMP to decode and it adding tone/bass if required.
b) The CD decoding the music and adding tone/bass (equalizer) before pushing (analog) to the AMP.

The CD player itself has no functionality to add or delete the signal. What you were talking about is adding an additional graphic equaliser.
So you have the following options:
- Run with no graphic equaliser, thus only having the circuits in the AV amp degrade the signal
- Add a graphic equaliser and have both the amp AND the graphic circuits degrade the signal.
Before you ask, just because the functionality is not in use, doesn't mean that the circuit is not impacting upon the signal.
Purely from a logic perspective, the simpler the flow of data, the fewer signal losses you'll have.
That's why most seriously good systems don't have any tone controls.

Ideally with such a CD player you'd connect it via analog rather than digital yes? ie: You'd trust the onboard DAC on the CD player more than that on the amp?

As it happens, the DAC itself is probably not the deciding factor. The question is how WELL is the DAC implemented, e.g. the clocks around it, mechanical vibration control and particularly the power supplies.
Chances are that a standalone CD player will have a better implementation than a budget AV amp. Having said that, as the signal is going through an AV amp, I wouldn't expect there to be a lot of noticeable difference.

Unfortunately, I have a very low regard for the ability of most AV amps to play music. So even if you put a really good CDP on the front, I still think that the average AV amp would destroy the signal.
Go buy yourself a decent stereo amp if you wish to listen to music.

 

[NeilF]

The CD player itself has no functionality to add or delete the signal. What you were talking about is adding an additional graphic equaliser.
So you have the following options:
- Run with no graphic equaliser, thus only having the circuits in the AV amp degrade the signal
- Add a graphic equaliser and have both the amp AND the graphic circuits degrade the signal.
Before you ask, just because the functionality is not in use, doesn't mean that the circuit is not impacting upon the signal.
Purely from a logic perspective, the simpler the flow of data, the fewer signal losses you'll have.
That's why most seriously good systems don't have any tone controls.

Understood...

As it happens, the DAC itself is probably not the deciding factor. The question is how WELL is the DAC implemented, e.g. the clocks around it, mechanical vibration control and particularly the power supplies.
Chances are that a standalone CD player will have a better implementation than a budget AV amp. Having said that, as the signal is going through an AV amp, I wouldn't expect there to be a lot of noticeable difference.

Unfortunately, I have a very low regard for the ability of most AV amps to play music. So even if you put a really good CDP on the front, I still think that the average AV amp would destroy the signal.
Go buy yourself a decent stereo amp if you wish to listen to music.

Well, thus far I'm quite impressed by the music out of my system... And I don't really want to introduce yet more units to turn on/off (ie: another amp) and yet more speakers to make my lounge look even more cluttered

So I'll try my old Sony CD player out of interest via analog and see if/what difference this makes...

I'll almost certainly buy a dedicated CD player if only to make it easier to play CDs - eg: Marantaz CD5400...

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

I'll almost certainly buy a dedicated CD player if only to make it easier to play CDs - eg: Marantaz CD5400...

A CD player might be marginally faster to load a disk than a DVD player, but I really don't see it being massively better.

If you want functionality, look at a Squeezebox after archiving your CDs to your PC.
If you want sound quality, sell you AV amp and buy a decent stereo amp.

Still, it's your dosh...

 

[NeilF]

A CD player might be marginally faster to load a disk than a DVD player, but I really don't see it being massively better.

If you want functionality, look at a Squeezebox after archiving your CDs to your PC.
If you want sound quality, sell you AV amp and buy a decent stereo amp.

Still, it's your dosh...

So, let me get this right... You've never heard my DVD player playing audio, or my amp, or have any idea of the music I listen to, or how often, or what else I use my amp for, but you suggest binning it all... LOL! Talk about using a hammer to crack a nut with a blindfold on

ps: You don't even know how long my DVD player takes to load a CD yet you comment on that as well

pps: I'll try my experiment tonight if I can with my dedicated CD player and see where that gets me

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

So, let me get this right... You've never heard my DVD player playing audio, or my amp, or have any idea of the music I listen to, or how often, or what else I use my amp for, but you suggest binning it all... LOL! Talk about using a hammer to crack a nut with a blindfold on

ps: You don't even know how long my DVD player takes to load a CD yet you comment on that as well :

Well said on all of that. I haven't heard any of your kit, and am purely speculating based upon experience with other similar types of kit. Of course I could be 100% wrong with my suggestions.
Do let us know how you get on, would love to know if I'm talking out of my ....

 

[NeilF]

Well said on all of that. I haven't heard any of your kit, and am purely speculating based upon experience with other similar types of kit. Of course I could be 100% wrong with my suggestions.
Do let us know how you get on, would love to know if I'm talking out of my ....

Well, plugged in my old Sony CDP C322M which is probably 15+ years old...

Anyway burned a copy of William Orbits Strange Cargo III - as it's a nice clear recording with plenty of different sounds in it (+ I never tire of listening to it ) - and put a disc in the two units.

So we have:-
DVD - Philips DVP5960 connected via Digitial Coax
CD - Sony CDP C322M connected via analog

Both were connected into my Yamaha RX-V461 with 'straight' throughput...


I played the two in parallel and flicked between them, and then lagged the CD player about four seconds behind and listened to the DVD play a section and then flicked to the CD player do the same section. I listened to a number of tracks and.... I couldn't here a bit of difference...

I also started the two on a track and let them play two tracks all the way through and the two seemed to keep perfectly in sync. At least within to a fraction of a second over the 10 minutes...

So will a new £150 CD player improve on this sound? I'm guessing not

 

[Rich JR]

The best cd transport I have is a HD DVD player HD A1 it must be the sharc dacs direct mode through denon 3805 is ok , but I have an old nad 3020i which sounds marvellous.

1. Avoid an av amp for music imo. The Denon 3805 is high endish and its beat by a 20 year old (brilliant though) budget stereo amp.

2. With music and cd its all down to the dacs.

 

[NeilF]

1. Avoid an av amp for music imo. The Denon 3805 is high endish and its beat by a 20 year old (brilliant though) budget stereo amp.

Absolutely understood, but I really do not want two sets of speakers in my lounge (ie: 5+woofer of the AV amp, and 2+woofer off the stereo amp)...

Now, my amp has 'multichannel input' (an input to each of the speakers it is connected to), IF this simply is a line in straight to the speakers such that the amp doesn't process/affect the signal? Couldn't a CD player get to my existing speakers that way?

 

[Deleted member 651465]

...which i assume means there's no way to instruct the player to align the timing of the output to that on the actual cd.

That's why the most expensive pieces of kit have multiple units (some have their own Clock unit ) to control the timing.

The dCS Scarlatti for example.

You get The transport, DAC and the all important clock unit for a cool £33,000

 

[Rich JR]

Absolutely understood, but I really do not want two sets of speakers in my lounge (ie: 5+woofer of the AV amp, and 2+woofer off the stereo amp)...

Now, my amp has 'multichannel input' (an input to each of the speakers it is connected to), IF this simply is a line in straight to the speakers such that the amp doesn't process/affect the signal? Couldn't a CD player get to my existing speakers that way?

Depending on your front speakers, all you may need is an amp

I have a 5.1 Quad set and just connect the fronts to the nad , and make sure the 3805 is off if I feed them with the Nad.
I use this for Vinyl and CD, it sounds better than the 3805 but could probably be improved upon by a new cyrus (must resist) ..its what i have had for ages. But the quads are bookshelf speakers on proper stands so it works.

 

[james.miller]

Mr_Sukebe, i'd love to know what you think of these new av amps with regards to music performance, from an audiophiles point of view

 

[Corasik]

All in one AV amps, are always a comprimise, all those amps sucking from the same power supply, and very few if any are build to Audiophile standards or prices.

There are a small number of exceptions, AV 'Pre-Amps' otherwise known as Processors, which are designed to higher levels, and as they use external power amps, you can couple them up as you wish.

For example, Tag Mclaren before they closed down, made the AV32R, an AV processor which in the digital domain is better sounding than the Dac/Preamp combo that came before it, while adding all the multi speaker surround decoders you could imagine (in its day). (Came at a price though, over £2000 for the early models, and the final top models cost over £4k)

But even the companies who make these 'Audiophile' AV setups, generally still make a pureist system which is potentially even better for pure stereo replay.

As for a current £150 player sounding any better than an AV amp in digital mode, To be honest at that price level, we're only talking about basic entry level kit. I suspect most AV amps are 'good enough' at that level for it to be a waste of time. And a high end CD player, or Transport... (Or even mid range £600+) is going to be a complete waste of money if the supporting amp and speakers arnt up to the job anyway.

That said, I run an old Audiolab 8000 system, and love it, but wanting to move into AV, I replaced my 8000Q with an AV32R, and I consider the AV32R a better preamp than the Q. That said, I run 100% digital, if I had any analog sources, the Q may have still held some benifits there. Combined with a rack full of 8000M power amps, the system is great in my eyes. (Not to everyones taste, but I doubt that any audiolab fans would dislike it)

 

[NeilF]

Depending on your front speakers, all you may need is an amp

I have a 5.1 Quad set and just connect the fronts to the nad , and make sure the 3805 is off if I feed them with the Nad.
I use this for Vinyl and CD, it sounds better than the 3805 but could probably be improved upon by a new cyrus (must resist) ..its what i have had for ages. But the quads are bookshelf speakers on proper stands so it works.

Is it safe to double wire the front speakers (Mordaunt Short MS302) and indeed the woofer (Mordaunt Short MS308) to two different amps? I suppose the woofer at least has to RCA connectors (left/right) so one could go to each amp...

What if you do happen to put both amps on at the same time?

I'm still not clear on what my on what exactly my 'multichannel inputs' are (an input to each of the speakers it is connected to). In an ideal would there would be some direct feed through the AV amp to the speakers attached?