Shooting at French Satirical Magazine

[Arthur Hucksake]

Muslims have spoken out.

Makes you question the mainstream media doesnt it.

They are never in a hurry to share that even when it would clearly deflate situations.

 

[ak22]

but its not extreme mist even the most moderate interpretation of Islam says nonbelievers should be taxed or killed.

thats definitely something I denounce.


Why do you support the execution/extortion of people who do not follow Islam?

please i happily await your justification of this tenant of the religion.

Hahahaha what complete and utter ******** seriously where do you get your information form daily mail? Go educate yourself before posting such bs a good place to start would be a book called "Islam: Silencing the Critics" by Mr Zia U Sheikh PhD.

“…There is no compulsion in religion…” (Quran 2:256)

"The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." Surat Al-Kahf

"O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do." Surat Al-Mā'idah (5.8)

Muslims have spoken out.

The policeman who shot & killed in video was Muslim also, but according many idiots on the forums us Muslims want to kill all on none believes.

 

[thep02]

I wasn't talking about Muslims in that instance. Was more the fact middle class white people were too scared to offend a minority so didn't act.

I offend local muslim hoods most days but I base my actions on their ethics and way of life, chavtastic, rather than their religion as that would be offensive to all the really nice muslims who live around here too, as I've said throughout the thread individual acts individual responsibility individual punishment.

 

[StriderX]

Why, for one second, would you even entertain the idea that that "metric" is accurate?

Perhaps you are a coder at a certain airforce base in the US and take such things as worthy of report?

We live in a world where GCHQ exists, so all those words on the internet are being mean tested to see who to target as potential enemies.

 

[ToxicTBag]

je suis Charlie

 

[Danthus]

I can assure you that this Catholic is not anti-gay. Live and let live is my motto.

Mine too.

 

[dowie]

Ok so the fact that death is the punishment under Islamic law... am on my mobile at the mo but can cite this fairly easily later if you're unaware of this.

I guess I should cite some sources... just quickly as this is form earlier in the thread

firstly from a pro-Islam source - a sunni muslim forum - the poster has helpfully cited several

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/sho...am-Haters-declare-quot-draw-muhammad-day-quot

Abu Bakr Al- Faarisee – a companion of Imam Ash-Shafi'ee - stated that :

"there is the consensus of the Muslims upon killing who curses the Prophet, Peace and Blessings be upon him, just as the ruling for whoever curses other than him is whipping.

And this consensus is carried down from the consensus from the premiere generation of the Tabi'een and the Sahabah. It was said by Sheikhul-Islam - or he intended their consensus on the necessity of the killing if he was a Muslim. And such was reported by Al-Qadi [The Judge] `Iyad.

from a site criticising Islam

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/016-insulters-islam.htm

and from another site that is critical of Islam:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Freedom_of_Speech#Hadith_and_Other_Islamic_Writings

Hadith and Other Islamic Writings
“Ali Beheading Nadr ibn al-Harith in the Presence of the Prophet Muhammad”, 7th Century Painting taken from Mustafa al-Darir’s Siyar-i-Nabi

Muhammad had said to his followers “Whoever curses a prophet kill him,” (Tabarani, Daraqutni)[3] and there are many examples of people during his time who were guilty of blaspheming Islam and its Prophet. Most of these people were assassinated with Muhammad's blessing, and no punishment or compensation was imposed on the murderer.

'Abdullah bin Ubai (bin Salul) - Muhammad asked his followers to kill this man for making "evil" statements about Muhammad's family.

Abu `Afak - Muhammad asked his followers to kill this man for making negative remarks about Muhammad and Islam.

Ka’b bin Ashraf - Muhammad asked his followers to kill this man for writing inflammatory poetry about Muhammad and Muslim women.

Asma Bint Marwan - Muhammad asked his followers to kill this woman for composing inflammatory poetry about Islam and Muslims.

Blind Man's Slave-Mother - When Muhammad learned that one of his followers had stabbed and killed his slave (other sources refer to her as a freed concubine: Umm walad) for making derogatory remarks about Muhammad, he declared that "no retaliation is payable for her blood."

Al-Nadr Bin Al-Harith - Al Nadir, a storyteller and poet who had mocked him. He was a prisoner of war who was not allowed to be ransomed by their clans and was executed on Muhammad's orders.

Some Muslims claim Muhammad had a Jewish neighbor who threw rubbish at him, and that one day the person became ill and Muhammad visited her. This story is not present in any Islamic texts, nor is it mentioned by any scholars of the past. Thus, this incident in Muhammad's life is most likely a fabrication. In addition, it contradicts Muhammad's nature as found in the copious amount of sahih (authentic) Islamic texts, mentioned above.

According to Ayatullah al-Khu'i, it is incumbent (wajib) to kill one who insults or calumniates the Prophet when one hears the insults provided there is no danger to his self, reputation or wealth. Agha also extends this ruling to cover insults against the Imams and Bibi Fatima (A.S.). It is not essential to get the permission of a Hakim al-Shar' to carry out the act.
Islamic law on Blasphemy
Dr. Takim, 'Aalim Network QR, December 8, 1995

[In Islamic Fiqh] there are absolutely no opinions, no variants, no exceptions...Muhammad ibn Sahnun said that even if a man claims that it is part of his religion to insult the Messenger, and so in his religion it is lawful, that makes no difference to us. If he openly insults our Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, then our religion makes it lawful to kill him. This surely is the inescapable centre of the current affair. The arrogant kuffar have to learn that the world contains a two-billion community who have a different set of Laws from theirs, and who can never be detached from that Law
The Fiqh Concerning Those Who Insult The Messenger of Allah
Shaykh Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi, February 6, 2006

If a Muslim commits blasphemy against the Prophet , this is an act of disbelief which takes him out of the fold of Islam. Allaah Says (what means): {Make no excuse; you have disbelieved [i.e. rejected faith] after your belief. If We pardon one faction of you—We will punish another faction because they were criminals.}[Quran 9:66] If joking is considered as an act of apostasy, then it is more confirmed for one who is saying it intentionally. If the blasphemer does not repent, he should be killed for his apostasy. However, if he sincerely repents to Allaah, Allaah will accept his repentance. Repentance expiates all sins, even Shirk (associating partners to Allaah). Allaah Knows best.
Blasphemy against the Prophet is an act of apostasy
Islam Web Fatwa Center, Fatwa No. 17316, December 11, 2007

Whoever Curses the Prophet Peace and Blessings be Upon him, Muslim or Kafir, Must be Killed.
The Drawn Sword Against the One Who Curses the Messenger - Pages 31-33
Ibn Taymiyyah

 

[dowie]

how about a list of people killed - ordered or supported by Mohammed - includes several poets* who were critical of him, what a nice example he set his followers:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Killings_Ordered_or_Supported_by_Muhammad

*he's basically ordered the killing of latter day critics/satirists etc..

This is why it is a problem with Islam - the founder of the religion itself was a nasty murderer himself, he was illiterate, a war mongerer, a had multiple 'wifes'/sex slaves and was a paedo by today's standards...

He himself ordered poets to be killed who criticised him... I mean I wonder where this french pair got the idea that it was justifiable to kill the satirists who have mocked him... the it is just political/nothing to do with Islam/or the blaming of French foreign policy apologist arguments just don't wash... a Japanese translator was killed for translating the satanic verses, killings have taken place long before the war on terror....

 

[dowie]

Yes there are obvious apologist cop-outs - some might argue that even if the Islamic punishment is death it only applies in Islamic states after trial. Muslims should follow the laws of the country they live in. That might well be the case but the idea of killing someone for apostacy or blasphemy is abhorrent regardless.

 

[ak22]

So your evince does not include anything for the Quran? you source is form website that was created to bash Islam? and wiki..... great references and facts.
How about you go and read what is says from the Quran or ask a imam?

 

[dowie]

have you missed the several quotes from Islamic scholars linked to on that pro Islam site mentioned first...

quote from the quran about killing those who 'make mischief'

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
Qur'an 5:33

 

[dowie]

on the 'tiny' minority:


NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/pdf/IslamonCampus.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

 

[ak22]

quote from the quran about killing those who 'make mischief'

Yes i have read that have you read the whole chapter? or the rest of the quran when it explains when you can kill?

You can't just pick one sentence to make your case as, it take things out of context just like these idiots who murdered the 12 people on France.

 

[dowie]

but I can... they are drawing inspiration from your prophet and his actions - the guy was a complete **** and he is supposed to be revered by you...

actually taking matter into your own hands and going off killing people - sure that part is disputed and an extremist position... even if you accept that death is the correct punishment you might not accept that you're supposed to carry it out yourself. I don't deny that what this pair did was to follow things to the extreme - but the actual inspiration for doing that, that clearly has its roots in Islam and in the actions of the prophet himself who was a violent nasty individual in the first place.

 

[ak22]

but I can... they are drawing inspiration from your prophet and his actions - the guy was a complete **** and he is supposed to be revered by you...

actually taking matter into your own hands and going off killing people - sure that part is disputed and an extremist position... even if you accept that death is the correct punishment you might not accept that you're supposed to carry it out yourself. I don't deny that what this pair did was to follow things to the extreme - but the actual inspiration for doing that, that clearly has its roots in Islam and in the actions of the prophet himself who was a violent nasty individual in the first place.

No its not clearly the roots of Islam you have not shown anything to prove your point. The only quote you did show that was form the qu' ran you took it out of context. Like I said before the truth is out their if you want to seek it, you clearly have hated and complete lack of understanding on Islam.

And if Islam does preach what you say it why the hell are 1.4 billion Muslims not *raging war right now? Why have many religious leader condemned this attack?

 

[dowie]

And if Islam does preach what you say it why the hell are 1.4 billion Muslims raging war right now?

actually taking matter into your own hands and going off killing people - sure that part is disputed and an extremist position... even if you accept that death is the correct punishment you might not accept that you're supposed to carry it out yourself. I don't deny that what this pair did was to follow things to the extreme - but the actual inspiration for doing that, that clearly has its roots in Islam and in the actions of the prophet himself who was a violent nasty individual in the first place.

I'd also point out that even among those who condone various actions only a small % will do much about it. Ditto to say Republicans & the IRA - the IRA had significant levels of sympathy amongst republicans yet the numbers of people who were active volunteers were relatively small...

If we're talking about Muslims worldwide - well plenty of Islamic states do execute people for blasphemy... Saudi ironically criticized these attacks yet is happy to kill people every year for blasphemy.

 

[ak22]

Here are few quotes like I said before the information is their, if you bother to actual look.

Prophet Muhammad instructed his army before their first battle

1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)

2. “Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)

3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.(Al-Muwatta)

4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.” (Al-Muwatta)

5. “If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)

6. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)

7. “Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.” (Sahih Bukhari; Sunan Abu Dawud)

8. “Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)

9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.” (Sunan Abu Dawud).

10. “Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they commit evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)

 

[ak22]

but I can... they are drawing inspiration from your prophet and his actions - the guy was a complete **** and he is supposed to be revered by you...

actually taking matter into your own hands and going off killing people - sure that part is disputed and an extremist position... even if you accept that death is the correct punishment you might not accept that you're supposed to carry it out yourself. I don't deny that what this pair did was to follow things to the extreme - but the actual inspiration for doing that, that clearly has its roots in Islam and in the actions of the prophet himself who was a violent nasty individual in the first place.

So much for your violent nasty individual....

The Holy Qur’an mentions many blasphemous utterances by non-believers and hypocrites against the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) without sanctioning any physical punishment for the perpetrators:

Verily, those who annoy Allah and His Messenger—Allah has cursed them in this world and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them an abasing punishment. And those who malign believing men and believing women for what they have not earned shall bear the guilt of calumny and a manifest sin. (Ch.33:Vs.58-59)

It should be noted that the ‘abasing punishment’ of blaspheming God and His Messenger rests with God alone and it is up to Him whether He punishes such persons in this world or in the hereafter. The authority to punish blasphemers has not been delegated to anyone, not even to the Holy Prophet(saw).

http://www.reviewofreligions.org/5002/what-is-the-punishment-for-blasphemy-in-islam/


You make bold claims but have no facts to back up them anyway I think I've derailed this thread enough, RIP to all those who died in France and condolences to their family god willing those involved get captured soon.

 

[deuse]

Muslims have spoken out.

A few posted on web sites. That makes me feel so much better. I bet Hitler would have done the same
I do wonder what they would have done with no internet?

 

[Skunkworks]

So we’ve established that it doesn’t matter what religious teachings say, people will just do as they please?