Looking for advice

[mafoo]

Good Morning Folks,
I was looking for some advice with the cooling situation in my PC. Currently i have the 'Lian Li PC-A70FB USB3.0 Big-Tower Case' with the 'OcUK Tech Labs 120mm Extreme CPU Liquid Cooling Upgrade Bundle' which i bought earlier this year to try and quieten down my noisy pc and solve some of it's overheat issues. It has certainly solved my noise issue (I was previously using Lian Li PC-86) it has improved teh over heat situation as the graphics cards are no longer crashing out, however i am still have heat issues, specifically the memory, north bridge heatsink and CPU regulators are all to hot to touch after an hour or so operation (eventually causing memory errors)
the picture below should help with seeing the layout.
All the fans put out warm air behind the case so it is pulling heat out, just not enough. I was hoping for some advice as to what to do next, some form of baffling to force the air over the components having issues, somehow increase the output fan throughput volume?
I have no problems with building custom things (e.g. perspex, or aluminium shapes) just wanted some advice before I go off and build something that turns out to be useless or if it woudl be more effective to buy a specific cooling solution.

Spoiler

p.s. I am not really interested in changing the whole system over to water cooling as I am happy with the all in one kit for just the CPU especially as the graphics are ageing pair of GTX 660's that will get replaced soon enough that i don't want to buy a water block adapter for each.

Images wider than 1280 pixels should be resized or placed in spoiler tags.

 

[MrMD]

Remove the HDD cage and mount your drives in the 5.25 bay,this will help a lot with airflow as your intakes are currently restricted.Might also be worth swapping out those intakes to slghtly better fans,they look quite cheap and probily dont push a lot of air.


I'd also flip the PSU so its fan is sucking in cool air from outside the case

 

[Bantu]

It's not entirely clear from your post but do you have any intakes at all in your case?

 

[pastymuncher]

Hi and welcome to the forums.

Sorry to be blunt but it's not a particularly good case for cooling seeing as it only has a single exhaust. Any modern case should have fan mounts in the roof to exhaust the hot air that get's trapped up there. Your gpu's don't help as they are dumping their heat into the case and a single 120mm exhaust can only shift a certain amount of air.

Your psu is fighting the bottom gpu for air as well. If that case has a filtered vent for the psu in the bottom then rotate the psu so that the fan is facing down and sucking air from underneath the case.

Your front intakes are blocked by the hdd cage and you could improve airflow a lot by removing it. You still have the problem of a single exhaust though.

Sort out that disaster of cables which will improve the flow of air a bit as well.

Your best bet by far would be to buy a better case where they have actually considered cooling whatever goes inside it. The excellent Phanteks Enthoo Pro M would be a good investment. It can take a max of 6x 120mm fans or 5x 140mm fans and is equipped with dust filters. It has very good cable management as well.

 

[mafoo]

MrMD,
Thank you for the advice, I will see about moving the drives up into 5.25" bays and removing their frame (i am sure I have adapters lying around somewhere!) I think that however swapping out the fans to some known brand ones is going to probably be the better option, at present the fitted fans that came with the case are from Lian Li so should be ok quality but certainly not high cfm. The motherboard itself only has the 3pin headers for the 3 system fans should i be looking at getting 3 pin fans and let the motherboard take care of the speeds, or should i be looking at one of the kits that includes a fan controller?
or can i start with buying a single 4pin fan to replace the rear fan and see how i do first?

I don't understand how turning the power supply over is going to let it intake as the fan would still remove air from the case as there is no inlet vent in the bottom of the case

Bantu,
the clear fans at the front are intake

pastymuncher,
it has two exhausts the upper one is occupied by the cpu water kit's radiator + fan
the GPU's are actually exhausting out the back of the case as they have integrated output vents, so the PSU + lower GPU are fighting over where to pull air from, flipping the PSU is not going to help to much as there is only 1 cm of clearance under it so going to cause it to strain to pull air though.
The cables are currently loose while i work out what is going on with the heat i have a retainer kit that is currently out of the case while i work on it, the only cable that isn't normally retained is the north bridge 8Pin as it only reaches with a small amount of slack, need to find one longer than 45cm

Spoiler

p.S. i really don't want LED fans i am not really interested in pimping my rig, the fact the front ones are blue is because they are factory supplied and happy to see them changed.

 

[doyll]

mafoo
Most of your problems are heat component air not flowing out of case because you do not have enough intake and exhaust vents and fans to flow enough air. This heated component exhaust is then being re-used by components along with what cool air is flowing into case .. resulting in warmer air going into components and component temps being higher. Best way to prove this to yourself is to setup remote airflow monitoring system like at the end of this post
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=26159770&postcount=7

If you are willing to mod your case with some bottom and top venting it can be setup very nicely.

Oh, and don't kid yourself thinking your GPUs are not dumping a lot of heated air inside of your case. Monitor your case airflow temps versus your room and you will see.

 

[pastymuncher]

I can guarantee you that 90% of your gpu's heat is being dumped in the case. Very little will be exhausted out through the vents as it's not a blower style cooler on them.

Believe it or not that little grill on the rear of your pc under the psu mounting is going to be enough for your psu to get sufficient air. Your case is designed to have the psu fan facing down. It will probably be better off than it is at the moment where it has to fight with the bottom gpu for air. Flip the psu and both it and the bottom gpu will be better off.

 

[doyll]

While I will agree most of the GPU heat is definitely dumping inside of case, I will not agree that the small airflow area below the PSU exhaust can supply enough airflow to PSU, even with a similar area from the front it is extremely marginal, but go ahead and try it. Remove all unused PCIe back slot covers to help exhaust airflow. What are your intake fans?

I would modify the case to have a vent directly under the PSU and another one (maybe 2) in front of PSU to supply cool air to GPU/s. This will give 3x (maybe 4x) intakes
.

 

[mafoo]

The intake fans on the front of the case are 140mm (up to 30mm thick if the cage isn't removed)

I have a bay mountable fan controller that has a pair of temperature senors on leads built in (it was removed as the controllable part burn out it's cheap regulators and some other bits as they do but the senors work) i will see about putting that back in and attaching the probes to some flexible coated wire so i can put them at specific locations.
Flipping the PSU can be done but i will need to remove the sound deadening pad that lives underneath it and cut a hole for a intake. The case feet are only 10mm so not sure how well it will beable to intake.

However i really think the fans in the system might not be up to much in regards to how much air they can actually shift so replacing them is probably my easiest start. i think what i am probably looking for is recommendations as to what fans to use, browsing the OC website for fans by size gives so many results that it is hard to tell the wheat from the chaff. i think this one looks like it will deliver a reasonable cfm and not to high a noise Silent Wings 3 120mm High Speed Fan

 

[doyll]

To put it bluntly, your 2x 140mm intakes cannot supply as much airflow as your components use. With 4x - 5x 92mm fans on GPU and 120mm on radiator I'll guess that is 200+cfm of airflow. 2x 140 1300rpm fans will move at most 140cfm with low restriction .. that is a 6mm honeycomb grill and no filter.

 

[setter]

I owned this exact case and tbh air intake/exhaust in it is excellent. It has 2x 140mm intake fans, and 2x 120mm exhausts at rear. The second top fan isnt visible in the op's photo as it is in the top most rear of the case. An area that can serve as a hdd bay with the provided adapter. Or a psu bay as this case is designed for using dual psu's. The stock fans arent brilliant now tbh, but easily improved with decent aftermarket ones. Air intake from the front is very good due to the large vents at the bottom front of the case. This can be improved further by removing the hdd cages. From what i know of this case, the op needs a vented top panel to get the best out of the cpu cooler radiator. And yes, flip the psu over too. This case has a vented bottom and rails for the psu to rest on to provide better air intake/exhaust.

 

[zipp0r]

adding to what the others said, your ram and chipset etc are hot because you are water cooling and a cpu fan usually blows air over them.

you could get two metal L brackets and screw them to the motherboard base plate holes to the right of the dimm slots and attach a fan to them and angle it down so air blows over the ram and cpu socket.

 

[doyll]

What setter said, except I would still do more venting in top and bottom. 2x GPU need a lot of airflow to keep case airflow less than 10c above room, and every degree hotter the air going into an air cooler is translates into a degree hotter the component is. I can't find a bottom pic of PC-A70FB ('B' for black) to be sure what the bottom has. The newer PC-Z70 has louver vents in PSU are and also 2x top vents.
I would also space case up with open frame castor base or on blocks so there is at least 35-40mm clearance between case bottom and what it is setting on (floor or desk).
Another possible way to improve airflow would be to use 3x of your 5.25" optical bays for an intake vent.

Good point about no airflow over mobo. Use a couple of zip-ties to secure a small low speed fan blowing air over CPU area of motherboard. I normally don't use the motherboard I/O cover on the back either. Leaving this area open allows more airflow from CPU back and out of case .. over /around those hot mobo components.

 

[mafoo]

I had a look underneath the PSU this morning it seems i have limited venting (after removing the sound deadening panel) i have flipped it over and will keep a eye on it's temperature.

Spoiler

can i get some advice on what fans to choose from as there is quit a lot of choice. I was hoping for a non LED quiet fan (but i realize noise and cfm are a trade off) i was looking at Silent Wings 3 120mm High Speed Fan

For moving air over the northbridge am i best (in reference to my first picture) placing a fan sideways to the right of the motherboard to push air over the memory towards the outlet, or placing a fan approximately where the CPU fan would be to move air though all the components in that area how the motherboard would have originally achieved that?

 

[doyll]

Looks quite restrictive .. <5% open area. If you have a jigsaw, I would suggest cutting a vent hole and use a DEMCiflex with magnetic strips They come is many sizes including rectangular for multi-fan use like on radiators. A 3x 140mm fan filter would work nicely on bottom.

Why 120mm fans? I thought front fans were 140mm.
As for which fans, it depends on how you plan to control them .. assuming you plan to have them automatically speed controlled same as CPU and GPU cooler fans are. Good reasonably priced 140mm are PH-F140SP (variable voltage) and PH-F140XP (PWM). Some PH-F140SP have LEDs, but LEDs have their own power lead .. don't want lights, leave them unplugged.
Black / black PH-F140SP are £9.95 .. £6.00 less than XP are.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/air-...-fans?ckSuppliers=473&ckTab=0&sPage=1&sSort=3

The airflow over mobo needs to be moving same direction as other case airflow. This means a not too powerful fan not moving too much air too fans ..

 

[zipp0r]

hmm. the psu might pull air through that grill at the back and through the gap at the front? maybe cut abit more of the sound deadening away to let more air in.

 

[mafoo]

Thank you so much for all of the advice, what I am going to go with is replacing all of the stock fans the case came with with the Phanteks series.
Move and remove the forward hard drive tray.
Add a vent underneath the case for the PSU and lift the case up on a set of pillars (got some old aluminium amplifier 40mm legs somewhere that should work)
Fit a pair of 40-60mm fans (depending on what I find in my parts boxes) on a 60° L-bracket with a speed controller to push air over north bridge area
going to order all the parts at once but do it in stages so i can measure the impact of each change.

Spoiler

• Both 140SP for the intakes
• 120SP replaces the rear case fan
• 120MP replaces the water cooler's fan
• Extension so I can route that pesky cable out of the way

The motherboard unfortunately only has the 3 Pin headers for the 4 system fans (so no PWM control except for CPU)
In addition I am going to take my case (with all parts removed) down to a nearby metal worker to get a 140MM opening under the PSU location cut (as for me to do it neatly I would have to invest £50 in a bimetallic hole-saw and bore). which should be ample size as a intake and still leave clearance in the corners should I wish to drill and mount a 140mm fan. I will also add a DEMCiflex 140mm, Round for that as well.

Hope to update the post once I am all done so at least it can serve as a reference to anyone else running into similar issues.

My Thanks to MrMD pastymuncher doyll and zipp0r as combining there advice together should give me the best chance at solving my issue!

 

[Slam]

I'm using this Phanteks fan controller and am happy with it. It is controlled through the cpu pwm fan header and so finer control is through the bios settings. Power is through a sata connection. I'm using it to power and control 8 fans.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/phant...ca-009-pt.html

Its a good way to control standard 3 pin fans by synchronising them to the cpu pwn header.

 

[doyll]

Spoiler

Thank you so much for all of the advice, what I am going to go with is replacing all of the stock fans the case came with with the Phanteks series.
Move and remove the forward hard drive tray.
Add a vent underneath the case for the PSU and lift the case up on a set of pillars (got some old aluminium amplifier 40mm legs somewhere that should work)
Fit a pair of 40-60mm fans (depending on what I find in my parts boxes) on a 60° L-bracket with a speed controller to push air over north bridge area
going to order all the parts at once but do it in stages so i can measure the impact of each change.

Spoiler

• Both 140SP for the intakes
• 120SP replaces the rear case fan
• 120MP replaces the water cooler's fan
• Extension so I can route that pesky cable out of the way

The motherboard unfortunately only has the 3 Pin headers for the 4 system fans (so no PWM control except for CPU)
In addition I am going to take my case (with all parts removed) down to a nearby metal worker to get a 140MM opening under the PSU location cut (as for me to do it neatly I would have to invest £50 in a bimetallic hole-saw and bore). which should be ample size as a intake and still leave clearance in the corners should I wish to drill and mount a 140mm fan. I will also add a DEMCiflex 140mm, Round for that as well.

Hope to update the post once I am all done so at least it can serve as a reference to anyone else running into similar issues.

My Thanks to MrMD pastymuncher doyll and zipp0r as combining there advice together should give me the best chance at solving my issue!

de nada
Look forward to seeing how it all works out.

 

[mafoo]

Well update number 1, the equipment arrived yesterday morning, installed the 120SP into the rear fan location, moved the existing fan to a bracket to point it at the memory, and flipped the PSU over. So far it has been nice and stable with no sign of overheat. going to run it in for a few days to see how it does. I am not sure that i am going to need all these other fans, however I will likely install the 120MP on the water cooler to help pull more air out. In the mean time i got a quote from a local metal fabricator to see what it would cost to have them punch the hole for me, the quote was reasonable for I expect the time it would take them to prep and perform the cut but more than I was willing to pay (with a turn around of 3-4 weeks) so i ordered a cheap bimetallic cutter from ebay that i will probably use once and then bury in the toolbox to cut the PSU opening underneath.