Could Germany have won WW2?

[h4rm0ny]

That is one way of putting it - I'm trying to avoid anything too specific as it gets incredibly complex.

"That's one way of putting it" as in I've put words into your mouth or "that's one of putting it" as in I approximated your meaning? I hope it's the latter and apologise if not. You see my reasoning about why I interpret it that way, at least.

 

[h4rm0ny]

I appreciate National Socialism and Fascism aren't identical, but seeing as Mussolini himself didn't care much about the terms 'Left' and 'Right', maybe we should all stop arguing and worry about something more important?

I see what you're saying. You're reminding us that fascism is, at heart, a political doctrine of pragmatism and that this was one of the key differentiators between it and communism (the former being willing to collaborate with the capitalists).

Clever. Very clever.

 

[Doogles]

Yes if they had invaded the UK and kept the Soviets allied until the job was done, with Japan I believe a stalemate would've happened with the US. We will never know if they could've won but I believe under the right circumstances it's totally possible.

 

[Rroff]

"That's one way of putting it" as in I've put words into your mouth or "that's one of putting it" as in I approximated your meaning? I hope it's the latter and apologise if not. You see my reasoning about why I interpret it that way, at least.

As in you can approximate my meaning in that fashion - I've tried to keep it fairly general because when you dig into the detail you'll rarely find any two people who agree absolutely on the subject.

 

[Irish_Tom]

I see what you're saying. You're reminding us that fascism is, at heart, a political doctrine of pragmatism and that this was one of the key differentiators between it and communism (the former being willing to collaborate with the capitalists).

Clever. Very clever.

I think you're giving me too much credit.

I think Mussolini's brand of Fascism was very much meant to be a 'Third Way' — Mussolini was ideologically opposed to the democracies of the UK and the USA; but then he fell out with the Communists, so he had to come up with something else.

I'm not sure Hitler was as opposed to the western democracies as Mussolini but he definitely hated the Communists — maybe that's why people are so quick to brand Nazism right-wing…

 

[jsmoke]

I would doubt it, oil, numbers of soliders, factory production and nukes also Stalingrad destroyed them.

 

[rare]

I think you're giving me too much credit.

I think Mussolini's brand of Fascism was very much meant to be a 'Third Way' — Mussolini was ideologically opposed to the democracies of the UK and the USA; but then he fell out with the Communists, so he had to come up with something else.

I'm not sure Hitler was as opposed to the western democracies as Mussolini but he definitely hated the Communists — maybe that's why people are so quick to brand Nazism right-wing…

There is always a danger to align National Socialism with Fascism, but while the two share overlapping features the two are ultimately driven by different aims. National Socialism was driven purely by its theory of racial superiority far and above that of Mussolini’s Fascism.

 

[itchy]

In a word NO!!

The Nazies where never going to win as it was crated/funded as part of the military industrial complex to get America out of the great depression.

It worked and the bankers and all the other ***** made a sack of money.

 

[eddiemcgarrigle]

Not necessarily, the Germans still didn't have the capability to move an invasion force across the channel. They lacked the landing craft and transport capabilities to do this plus they had very little to no training with landing craft. Furthermore the Royal Navy was stronger than the German fleet, which had the above issue above been resolved, they still would have to deal with in order to secure their crossing of the channel.

I don't disagree that the Luftwaffe winning the BoB would have given them a chunk of the control the Germans needed, however there were still other important factors that would have taken quite a while to resolve before invading the UK.

If the Germans had air superiority, any Navy ships would have been very susceptible to bombing if they had tried to block any German invasion across the channel.

 

[4K8KW10]

How much was Hitler's IQ?

In theory, Hitler could have won but in practice where he had all other countries as enemies at some point, technically impossible.
Even if Hitler had won, I think he could never have controlled the invaded countries for a longer period.
He should have destroyed all other ethnic groups who at some point in time would have fought back, with uprisings, etc...

It's clear that once invading Poland, Hitler went against the UK and France's own national interests, and it was impossible to get the countries on his side.
Something for which, German people still hate the British for....

 

[h4rm0ny]

Something for which, German people still hate the British for....

You're kidding, right? Germany has a national guilt complex you could sail the Titanic through. Every German school child is taught from the time they can walk that they must never say "Boo!" to anyone from another country!

 

[Orcish-Horde]

No, Germany got lucky early in the war, it was not until they were deep into Russia that they realised just what they had done. Russia had been building its forces and Germany had spent its strength by the time it was stopped close to Moscow. Germany lost to much of its man power to continue. The best they could have done was to bog Russia down to a stalemate at that point and would still have had the UK to deal with, leaving Germany in a very bad place not matter if the US entered the war or not. In short by 1942 Germany had lost the bulk of higher grade soldiers it need to fight and was on the back foot from that point.

 

[Rroff]

Wouldn't say Germany got lucky - they used disciplined techniques and tactics against unprepared and poorly supported opposition.

 

[Angilion]

[..]
Idiots often agree with each other. Smart people almost never agree on every detail. The reason being reality is complex. Your goal is to prove your belief and you skim through an article or Wikipedia as earlier looking for something that you can copy paste here. Mine is to arrive at what I think is the truth through debate. That's why when Angillion debates something I've said I read it to see if I was wrong. And when you screech "Alt Right! Alt Right!" I roll my eyes so hard I look like a slot machine.

And I do the same. You and I have some very fundamental points of disagreement, but I read your posts carefully because they have substantial content. You support your position and even when I think you're wrong there's something for me to think about in your posts. Even someone as wonderful and brilliant as I am can be wrong to some extent sometimes

My eyes just glaze over with the "Alt Right!" blather due to the incessant meaningless repetition, but Zethor's assertion that being anti-liberal is something that's exclusive to the far right was bizarre enough to be a slot machine moment for me.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Wouldn't say Germany got lucky - they used disciplined techniques and tactics against unprepared and poorly supported opposition.

"I am a great believer in luck. The harder I work, the more of it I seem to have."
--Variously attributed.

 

[h4rm0ny]

And I do the same. You and I have some very fundamental points of disagreement, but I read your posts carefully because they have substantial content. You support your position and even when I think you're wrong there's something for me to think about in your posts. Even someone as wonderful and brilliant as I am can be wrong to some extent sometimes

My eyes just glaze over with the "Alt Right!" blather due to the incessant meaningless repetition, but Zethor's assertion that being anti-liberal is something that's exclusive to the far right was bizarre enough to be a slot machine moment for me.

Thank you. And likewise, I always read your posts with interest too. "A compliment from a friend is pleasant. A compliment from an enemy, a treasure."

Not that I'm calling you an enemy - just acknowledging that we have some very different views and it's great that we can still get value from each other's posts. As to being wrong occasionally, I've found the great thing about admitting you're wrong is that you have to do it less often the more you do it.

 

[Efour]

Get a room...

 

[grumpybeard]

Thread is a great read, really interesting viewpoints and some well informed folks here.

Can anyone recommend a singular, reference and good read covering the build up, political state, the war itself and after?

 

[4K8KW10]

You're kidding, right? Germany has a national guilt complex you could sail the Titanic through. Every German school child is taught from the time they can walk that they must never say "Boo!" to anyone from another country!

German people don't have any complexes. If they had, they wouldn't put different price tags or wages amounts for employees who speak German and employees who speak any other language, for the same positions you will get lower pay-cheque if you speak another language.
It is in German people's DNA the "feel of superiority" over other ethnic groups. I see more often people from my country, who go to arbeit in Deutschland, complaining that the Germans are racists to them.
Like, 'the wolf changes his coat, but never changes his temper'.


Is there data about Hitler's IQ?
I suspect he was powerful like monster but yet silly as an ordinary evil person.
Is there data if he wasn't the devil himself under human skin?

 

[Spuj]

If the Germans had air superiority, any Navy ships would have been very susceptible to bombing if they had tried to block any German invasion across the channel.

That is true however if you take a look at the stats for the Luftwaffe's success of sinking naval ships throughout the war it was very poor. They didn't really have the right aircraft and weren't trained for it so success rate was very low, combined with the number of ships operated by the Royal Navy and supporting small costal boats, they would have had to up their game significantly to have an impact to support a German invasion fleet.