Is £22 for windows 10 too good to be true?

[spoffle]

When grey market in this case means keys obtained from other channels (e.g. msdn or volume) that are being operated outside of the terms of the license, then it is pointless buying a key as it is no more legal than a pirated version.

Fact is that unless you buy direct from Microsoft, or from an authorised retailer at RRP, then it's unlikely to be a legal key.

What I'm saying is that those sort of keys aren't grey market. Grey Market is just stuff from different territories often without support or warranty because of that.

That's why I said earlier on that these are the same as piracy, but without the free part, rather than grey market.

 

[Armageus]

Not going to argue semantics with you:

A grey market (sometimes confused with the similar term parallel market)[1][2] is the trade of a commodity through distribution channels that are legal but unintended by the original manufacturer. Grey market products are products sold by a manufacturer or their authorized agent outside the terms of the agreement between the reseller and the manufacturer.

MSDN or volume license keys are legal commodities, being sold outside of their original distribution channel and outside the terms of there license agreement.


Whether that is technically "grey market" or just "grey area" doesn't really matter.

 

[spoffle]

Not going to argue semantics with you:



MSDN or volume license keys are legal commodities, being sold outside of their original distribution channel and outside the terms of there license agreement.


Whether that is technically "grey market" or just "grey area" doesn't really matter.

MSDN keys are keys that aren't made to go into distribution or resale channels. That's why they aren't grey area or grey market. They're straight up piracy and breach of copyright, up to unauthorised distribution of copyrighted content.

Grey Market stuff are still products that are in some retail chain, just not the one they're being sold in. Like Russian or Mexican game keys being sold to UK customers.

 

[jpaul]

It would be good if MS made it clearer how you determine the legitimacy of any of these tokens, if that were easy you could check when you received one and demand a refund if not legit;

given that some are 3rd party sellers on Amazon, Amazon would quickly throw them out if needed.

you can run 'slmgr -dli' and see something like below and have a COA sticker ... but can't ring MS and get a good/bad opinion
Name windows(R) 7, Professional edition
DeKnption: windows Operating System - windows(R) 7, OEM_COA*** channel
Partial Product Key 8***
License Status: Licensed

 

[nzaptx]

Some of these software keys come from decommissioned or "scrap" PC's no longer in use, and what you'd be getting is a license transfer. These are legit and are unlikely to get blacklisted or removed. If you see anything about Scrap or sending a scrap motherboard then this is what it is.

Of course its entirely possible you could be scammed, and end up with a key that is also used by someone else.

The ones to watch out for are enterprise/volume licensing, these are where either you are given a software download with the key embedded or the key is sent and "active" once you have paid/it has dispatched. With these ones there's a pretty high chance that at some point (could be weeks/months) the key will become disabled/blacklisted and no longer work. These ones usually cost peanuts (<£10) and there are plenty of people who just buy them and buy a new one when their first one gets removed/blacklisted.

 

[asim18]

Some of these software keys come from decommissioned or "scrap" PC's no longer in use, and what you'd be getting is a license transfer. These are legit and are unlikely to get blacklisted or removed. If you see anything about Scrap or sending a scrap motherboard then this is what it is.

This.

A lot of the time businesses, especially schools/college/universities, will buy a load of systems and each of them come included with Windows licences, except when they set it all up they will use their VL key instead. So the Key on the side of the PC is unused. This happened a lot back when I was in college/uni and they had windows 7.

 

[jpaul]

Some of these software keys come from decommissioned or "scrap" PC's no longer in use, and what you'd be getting is a license transfer. These are legit and are unlikely to get blacklisted or removed. If you see anything about Scrap or sending a scrap motherboard then this is what it is.

This is a misnomer, they have to be a full retail version to be legally transferrable
I could not see a break out, but how many of them are sold versus pre-installed oem (xp->win7 maybe there were some purchases back then)
The token I printed earlier was from a salvaged/ex-enterprise machine that has afaik a legitimate oem system builder license provided by the (large vat registered) re-selling company.

 

[Jamesyboyjim]

Either way MS have never seemed too bothered about how people activate their copies of Windows. I suppose for them they just want people using it and may decide to ask questions later.

 

[bledd]

OP-USERNAME

 

[marc2003]

I don't get why anyone would pay for a cheap key knowing damn well it's not legal. Clearly your attitude is "screw MS" so why not be honest with yourself and pay nothing. If lining the pockets of some crook who doesn't deserve a penny eases your conscience, your brain is clearly broken.

 

[linktoinsanity]

I don't get why anyone would pay for a cheap key knowing damn well it's not legal. Clearly your attitude is "screw MS" so why not be honest with yourself and pay nothing. If lining the pockets of some crook who doesn't deserve a penny eases your conscience, your brain is clearly broken.

Totally this.

Either buy a legit copy or pirate it for free. Obviously I am not condoning the latter.

 

[OCdude]

Do Microsoft have a facility where they check your key and confirm whether or not it’s a legit OEM/retail key, rather than an MSDN one?

 

[jpaul]

... rather than an MSDN one?

read through this
tells you how they will disable it

.... For MSDN Keys:- MS can only act once a key hits a threshold (and they won't tell an outsider what that threshold is, understandably). They then have to put it through internal systems to ensure that all relevant parties are informed, just in case it's an oversight - then it enters the queue for the next update to the system.
I have no idea how often the WAT checking system is updated, but I would suspect that it's no more than weekly because of admin and timing issues. The internal MS processes could therefore take easily a couple of months. It therefore depends on how close to the end of a vendors sales list you are, and how quickly he's selling them.
The cannier ones will sell just enough to stay under the threshold for each product (MSDN subs include a huge number of products), until they've maximised the profits, then try and flood the market before disappearing into the sunset, laden with your cash.
This could take anything up to a year or more.

 

[Rannoch]

I had a client who bought a 5 user Office 365 from fleabay, cost about £5. He showed me it, cant change the username etc lol. Bet its banned very soon.

 

[OCdude]

I’m tempted to order one from Amazon, then use a PID checker to see if it really is OEM and not an MSDN key... then shove it back in the sellers face if it’s the latter

 

[Blackjack Davy]

Some of these software keys come from decommissioned or "scrap" PC's no longer in use, and what you'd be getting is a license transfer. These are legit and are unlikely to get blacklisted or removed. If you see anything about Scrap or sending a scrap motherboard then this is what it is.

Of course its entirely possible you could be scammed, and end up with a key that is also used by someone else.

Ah thats another source entirely. These are usually ok if they have a COA thats obviously pulled off a decomissioned PC. The ones to watch out for are the ones that are just emailed to you as a serial number they're usually MSDN.

The COA key can only be activated once afaik. Once its registered no one else can use it. If its duff you can get your money back... msdn keys 6 months/year down the line when the warranty/moneyback guarantee has expired... you're screwed. Perfect scam.

 

[stoofa]

This.

A lot of the time businesses, especially schools/college/universities, will buy a load of systems and each of them come included with Windows licences, except when they set it all up they will use their VL key instead. So the Key on the side of the PC is unused. This happened a lot back when I was in college/uni and they had windows 7.

Indeed - however the licence is still tied to the machine on which it was initially installed. So although the key on the machine is not being used, it doesn't mean it's suddenly up for grabs and fully transferable.

 

[jpaul]

repeating from earlier link (... oem off the menu, msdn not even contemplated )

qed

 

[snowdog]

I don't get why anyone would pay for a cheap key knowing damn well it's not legal. Clearly your attitude is "screw MS" so why not be honest with yourself and pay nothing. If lining the pockets of some crook who doesn't deserve a penny eases your conscience, your brain is clearly broken.

I don't get why any non mentally impaired person would pay more than needed and conform to ridiculous region based policy, when a free market means you can buy your stuff from anywhere.

I always buy ''cheap'' keys for under 20, when they work and activate, that's all that matters in the real world, it's Microsofts responsibility to ''not allow''/refuse to activate them if them seem fit. They activate and work fine and I've not heard one complaint over the years from customers that they've been deactivated (after 100's).

There's a difference to finding loopholes in the system (which is something smart people do who don't like to be used in the behind) or using simulated KMS servers (which is clearly illegal)...

''I don't get why anyone would pay for a cheap key'' is clearly a comment from someone who doesn't live in the real world, nobody in the real world wants to pay more than needed or market value for a product.

I've worked in IT for years and the only idiots making a fuss is the companies who try to sell retail licenses at local (inflated) prices. We're a Microsoft parter ourselves even they don't whine about this crap. They're still stuck in the war against p2p :')

 

[marc2003]

There's a difference to finding loopholes in the system (which is something smart people do who don't like to be used in the behind) or using simulated KMS servers (which is clearly illegal)...

There is no difference. Paying to be unlicensed and be on the same legal footing as someone who hasn't paid a penny is insane. The fact you've given your money to a criminal who doesn't deserve a penny doesn't absolve you of any legal wrong doing. Just pirate it and STFU.

All you seem to care about is the fact that it activates and nothing bad has happened since...exactly the same position you'd be in if you did it yourself.