Universal Credit/JSA

[AhhBisto]

I've swum the murky waters before with UC, mostly when starting out self-employed and went to claim working tax credit during a period of low income. Those tax credits turned into UC, and UC hates the self-employed to the point where advisors say you oughta pack it in completely unless you're doing well enough not to ever claim.

Personally I did just that and went back to temporary contracts on PAYE. You can expect your benefits to be decimated if you get your pay during the 'payment periods' taken into account with UC. I did a short contract that ended just after Christmas, but because of the holidays then payroll were late. Because of that it fell into UC's zone of consideration and I therefore lost the vast majority of my December pay coming off February UC's, because I got December's pay late in January. That was a hard couple of months.

Since then I've binned off short term contracting and my old career specialism of 5 years entirely, and UC is partially the reason for that. You'd think the whole system was designed by an idiot, but it was actually designed for a specific purpose - to skim off as much from the benefits bill as possible while showing claimants have the same entitlement or better than on JSA/housing benefit, but in reality that's only true in the most simple of circumstances (long-term unemployed who never earns a penny or those who work in a steady part time job on PAYE and are paid monthly - anyone else is entering a minefield if they have to claim UC).

I remember years ago when JSA gave me a grant to start my own business and paid unemployment until it was up and running. I ran it until I was paid more salary and I'm wondering how UC is supposed to consider this?

It's worrying to think that I wasn't given much but able to show my potential in the field I specialised in, compared to penalising those who wish to better themselves and work on their own business.

 

[Vexr]

I remember years ago when JSA gave me a grant to start my own business and paid unemployment until it was up and running. I ran it until I was paid more salary and I'm wondering how UC is supposed to consider this?

It's worrying to think that I wasn't given much but able to show my potential in the field I specialised in, compared to penalising those who wish to better themselves and work on their own business.

It seems UC is far from encouraging entrepreneurship through self-employment, though I'm sure they've something in place seeming to offer support for start up businesses (or at least give the appearance of doing so).

UC really cracks down on the self-employed after they've been in business for one year, in which case they deduct benefit payments based on an arbitrarily assumed income rather than your actual income, and that assumed income always means your benefits entitlement drops to zero.

The problem for me was I started up self-employed part time on top of my full time job. By the time I went full time self-employed, I'd already unwittingly come to the one year limit as the tax credits I'd applied for were coming under Universal Credit. I was therefore applying for nothing effectively, except for the honour of coming in and signing on.

As UC also requires you to comply with advisor directions / attend the job centre, then you can also find yourself sanctioned even when you're not getting any benefits, so those sanctions will role over to when you next apply for UC and are in entirely different circumstances.

I believe the cutting off of self-employed benefits were put in place due to the explosion of those doing jobs like deliveries self-employed / taxi drivers and whatnot (which was far away from what I was doing). Nevertheless, UC doesn't discriminate between anyone who's self-employed so all go without benefits once they've been self-employed in any capacity for a certain amount of time. If they end their self-employed work then benefits are restored, and you're back in the rat race proving to your adviser you're applying for all jobs you can, part time/zero hours or otherwise, so long as they're PAYE, then that is acceptable to UC, whereas self-employment is not.

 

[xdcx]

Thanks for all the input everyone, I do appreciate it.

So what we have gained in knowledge here is that people with even £30k+ sitting in their accounts are able to claim old school JSA for 6 months as those savings are not taken into account.

We have also recognised that the UC system is a complete and utter cluster **** with complete lack of understanding and complete lack of basic helpful information to punters like me. The entire system is based on the fact you go through the hell that is registering and getting accepted onto it.... you then are simply meant to update them on circumstance and it is all worked out and sorted for you automatically. That's clearly not the case and this system is deliberately convoluted and difficult so that folk miss out.

I honestly feel I am being shafted here because I happen to live somewhere that this UC is mandatory. 20 miles up the road they don't have to deal with UC yet and they're getting money within the week. That truly is ridiculous.

I will investigate new style JSA and try to speak with someone who is meant to understand all of this. Last time I called about the carried over allowance meaning I get nothing, the chap on the phone had absolutely no idea how it worked or why I was getting nothing so he went away for 3 hours then got back to me... he was helpful and nice but even he had no idea wtf was going on with the way this worked out. So I'll see how I get on asking why I'm not on new style JSA or what on earth has went off on this because as I say, this is mean to be automated, simple and done with minimal human time/hassle. Its the opposite of that!

 

[Threepwood]

Thanks for all the input everyone, I do appreciate it.

I happen to live somewhere that this UC is mandatory. 20 miles up the road they don't have to deal with UC yet and they're getting money within the week. That truly is ridiculous.

You're welcome.

UC has been rolled out pretty much across all of England now. Where do your friends live? It would be pretty easy to check if they are in a UC area.

I think there might just been some miscommunication, and either they have been more clued up on what to claim from the get go, or you have been misdirected by the benefits agency.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes, don't let the buggers grind you down

 

[xdcx]

You're welcome.

UC has been rolled out pretty much across all of England now. Where do your friends live? It would be pretty easy to check if they are in a UC area.

I think there might just been some miscommunication, and either they have been more clued up on what to claim from the get go, or you have been misdirected by the benefits agency.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes, don't let the buggers grind you down

Thanks buddy
I'm in Scotland, North of Inverness in IV7 postcode area.
Others further North in IV18 and IV25 postcodes. Others will have PH postcodes as well.

I've just done a JSA application and filled in all the stuff to have it backdated which they say will only happen in exceptional circumstances.
My reasoning on it was that at my UC interview thing the guy said everything is done via UC portal only. It's the exclusive place to do anything with any form of claiming so job seekers doesn't apply and I should not go for that separate to UC.

I'll update with what happens on this in case anyone comes into similar situations in future.

I think you are right in that they spoke to the right person with knowledge on the right day who got them claiming correctly instantly. Whereas I have been put down a path by someone who was incompetent and didn't understand what they were telling me even though it was there job.... it's muggins here who has missed out on £800 though and will likely not get it.

 

[M1k3H]

Thanks for all the input everyone, I do appreciate it.

So what we have gained in knowledge here is that people with even £30k+ sitting in their accounts are able to claim old school JSA for 6 months as those savings are not taken into account.

We have also recognised that the UC system is a complete and utter cluster **** with complete lack of understanding and complete lack of basic helpful information to punters like me. The entire system is based on the fact you go through the hell that is registering and getting accepted onto it.... you then are simply meant to update them on circumstance and it is all worked out and sorted for you automatically. That's clearly not the case and this system is deliberately convoluted and difficult so that folk miss out.

I honestly feel I am being shafted here because I happen to live somewhere that this UC is mandatory. 20 miles up the road they don't have to deal with UC yet and they're getting money within the week. That truly is ridiculous.

I will investigate new style JSA and try to speak with someone who is meant to understand all of this. Last time I called about the carried over allowance meaning I get nothing, the chap on the phone had absolutely no idea how it worked or why I was getting nothing so he went away for 3 hours then got back to me... he was helpful and nice but even he had no idea wtf was going on with the way this worked out. So I'll see how I get on asking why I'm not on new style JSA or what on earth has went off on this because as I say, this is mean to be automated, simple and done with minimal human time/hassle. Its the opposite of that!

My missus had the same issue. Went to the Job Centre after being made redundant (no payment though) to claim New Style JSA cause we read online that this is what she would be entitled to. Job Centre told her to claim for UC, and that we would have to claim together. I.e. take my income into account as well, which essentially meant the monthly sum from UC of £0.

I kicked right off, and rather than go there myself we applied for New Style JSA online. She got an email with an appointment date and time, and after that she started getting her weekly payments. Of course by that time she had found something else, so we spent the next 3 weeks trying to cancel.

Summary: do it online; you'll need to create a government gateway (?) ID, but after that it should be pretty easy.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

If the roll-out is anything like the change to original JSA I guarantee the staff will have had next to zero training in the new system.

Contributions based benefits should still exist (sounds like the New style JSA that has been mentioned) as long as you have worked the qualifying years.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

It's been built to make a mess so people don't claim maximum amount or claim in a way where you or anyone else has a clue.

 

[xdcx]

My missus had the same issue. Went to the Job Centre after being made redundant (no payment though) to claim New Style JSA cause we read online that this is what she would be entitled to. Job Centre told her to claim for UC, and that we would have to claim together. I.e. take my income into account as well, which essentially meant the monthly sum from UC of £0.

I kicked right off, and rather than go there myself we applied for New Style JSA online. She got an email with an appointment date and time, and after that she started getting her weekly payments. Of course by that time she had found something else, so we spent the next 3 weeks trying to cancel.

Summary: do it online; you'll need to create a government gateway (?) ID, but after that it should be pretty easy.

Sounds very familiar. When I knew redundancy was coming I got into it early trying to be organised and ended up putting my other half through the trauma of getting on the UC system and all that entailed also.

I have already done the government ID thing and this morning applied for new style JSA on their website so just waiting on that also so hoping it results in me getting sorted. Like your other half I am very close to having a job though as well so it could all be a waste of time!

Amazingly I just called job centre plus. Due to me being UC they cannot help me. I have to do it via the online UC portal....

"OK" (aka for utter **** sake!).... I logged a journal thing asking if I really was only allowed to apply via UC. I gave all the spiels like I have above about redundancy and feeling like I was getting nothing purely because of UC being rolled out here.... the chap has replied and basically re-pasted the last statement they gave me about surplus earnings. They say they cannot comment on new or old style JSA, only about UC.

So again we come back to this being a complete and utter cluster **** and nothing is joint up and nobody knows what is what. If the authorities and people behind the scenes for which this is their job do not know what to do.... how on earth do us little people on the ground get anywhere? I've hand on heart never dealt with something so incompetent and just down right stupid in my entire life.

 

[Chaos]

This site might be worth a look -

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/jobseekers-allowance

 

[demonix]

What I don't believe fair is that I cannot get JSA at all as I have to go via UC.

It might be that your area or specific jobcentre has fully transitioned over to UC and is no longer doing JSA claims.

 

[xdcx]

The job centre has now just text me to tell me to go for an appointment at 09:50 tomorrow. Talk about short notice!
I have a job interview at 10:00 which is 40mins away in another town.

Could not make this **** up!

 

[AhhBisto]

The job centre has now just text me to tell me to go for an appointment at 09:50 tomorrow. Talk about short notice!
I have a job interview at 10:00 which is 40mins away in another town.

Could not make this **** up!

Just let them know in the morning you have an interview and would like to re arrange. That's if you've got enough time to wait on hold whilst going to the interview.

 

[xdcx]

Just let them know in the morning you have an interview and would like to re arrange. That's if you've got enough time to wait on hold whilst going to the interview.

Managed to get in touch and she changed the job centre appointment. 12 minutes on hold

 

[AhhBisto]

Managed to get in touch and she changed the job centre appointment. 12 minutes on hold

Nice, good luck at the interview!

 

[Deleted member 77746]

Managed to get in touch and she changed the job centre appointment. 12 minutes on hold

The first time I contacted them I was on waiting 2 hours to get through. Not joking either.

Be prepared to go down every couple weeks to tell them and show them you are looking for a job.

 

[AhhBisto]

I would definitely recommend putting in enough information on the jornal as possible, I was on it for 2 weeks and to be fair writing down the information does help if you ever get a call for an interview and can't remember the position.

What I did find is if you write, the job application title, short description, time applied, how you applied next follow up and fill about 4/5 pages they don't even bother looking at the thing. The only problem I found is I applied for every suitable position in first few days and then sorted by new which only had a couple a day.

 

[xdcx]

Bumping this back up with a full update on wtf happened and where I ended up with this.... I'll do it in brief points because it's so long and drawn out:

I attended the job centre to "sign on" 4 times in total. For the 5th, I just didn't show up because they weren't giving me any money. **** them, I thought basically.
I was told it would take 10 working days to get my first JSA payment. Total lies.
After 15 days I phoned them up and they claimed that because they were busy they had upped this time on new claims to 18 working days. This wasn't communicated to the job centres, never mind the little people on the ground like me.
I called them after the 18 working days as still no money. They chased it and I got money (finally!) the day after.

Note - 3 phone calls chasing this. The SHORTEST wait time on hold waiting to speak to someone was 1 hour and 14 mins. The longest wait time was 1 hour and 47 minutes.

I got a job 2 days after I got my first payment from JSA. I had signed on at start of August and was over 6 weeks until I got a penny out of them.

I was made to fill in a paper form asking for backdating of new style JSA.... This was because I openly went to the JC and asked for advice and help and was given completely wrong and false information on UC/new style JSA. The JC was in agreement with me that it was a member of their staff's fault I was misled and didn't apply for new style JSA.

3 weeks later, now working away at my new job. I get a phone call from a lady in the Scottish office for DWP. She needs inform me that my request for backdating was refused.... As I went to lose the actual plot on the phone she told me to HANG ON. She read the notes on the case and asked me to tell her the fully story.
She was in full agreement that my story matched the paperwork and she claimed that it's the exact sort of situation where she believes they should be backdating. She said I went out my way to get the help and advice and was given wrong information. So how could I possibly be blamed for that when I asked the apparent people in the know, what the hell to do and they tell me the wrong thing.

She called me back 10 mins later and she had spoke to her manager who asked her to authorise my backdating on the spot.
She was fantastic. She told me she has been through this nonsense with UC/JSA and wouldn't wish it on anyone. Claims the system is openly known in DWP as being a complete joke and they don't understand how the government get away with this nonsense and putting people through the wringer.

So I feel I fought the DWP and actually came away with a result. They gave me approx £1100 after I got backdating and 2x new style JSA payments. They thought I would be amazed getting "so much money" as backdating. But I told them £750 in a wee lump is nothing when you have not had a penny for over 3 months.

Last note, do not use UC for job seekers payments. You can get job seeking payments on UC instead of new style JSA. What they don't tell you is that it only gives you class 1 NI on the UC element of job seekers..... if you end up unemployed and ARE ON UC, still go and do new style JSA instead. It will result in you getting the same money each week for job seeking but it pays class 3 NI which is much better for you of course!! So don't get caught out by that apparently top secret fact.... lass on the DWP phone says half the people in the DWP call centres don't even know this and she said certainly in the JC's this information is not known. It's sketchy as ****!

Here is to many years of being a tax paying little sheep and not having to go through this utter carnage ever again.

 

[Street]

I had signed on at start of August and was over 6 weeks until I got a penny out of them.

That sounds similar to my experience of signing on. When I moved cities about 15 years ago, I thought I might as well sign on and get something while I was looking for a job. They messed me around and I didn't get a single payment until a few weeks after I'd already started working!

 

[randomshenans]

Mate I feel for you so much. The system is so ****** for supporting those in a **** situation where you're out of work.

I was made redundant about 11 years ago in the UK and was given no pay that month either. (it came eventually months later) I was screwed. I had rent due, I'd paid my monthly railcard for london, all bills etc.
I was told that I couldn't sign on and given some crap. I felt the whole system wasn't setup to accommodate the very people it should. I didn't get a penny from them, I gave up the chase, had to move home, got about 8k of debt out of it and when I eventually got a new job took me a while to sort myself back out. I despise the system, it's awful.